Christian couple lose their High Court battle to foster children because they are against homosexual

Originally posted by hawaii50th
I do believe that sexual abuse causes men or women to choose to go in a different direction because of the trauma that abuse can trigger in a persons mind. Not everyone will react in the same way, no two people are alike but yet trauma to the brain can trigger different reactions. There are different tolerance levels in every humans mind of every emotion, basically of every kind of anything imaginable. The human brain is very complex and it will never completely be figured out.

I don't believe it's a choice, but I do believe there are different reasons that won't be answered ever, and that's because no one can agree on the reasons.

I have stated before I believe in the sliding scale. That there are people who fall in the middle who could "swing" either way. I don't believe any man or woman - - who is further to one side of the scale or the other - - will switch their sexual orientation if abused or because of any environmental issue.

I've been having this discussion for at least 20 years. In discussion with those who claim to be BI - - - I have never encountered one who did not have a preference to one sex or the other.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Dendro

 

You define it as such, then you justify it as such by referring to the definition.

I think homosexuality is a fetish, just like all the other fetishes out there. You don't choose to be homo the same way you don't choose to be turned on by certain ideas or themes.

Is your heterosexuality a fetish?

reply to post by Annee


Back to the original question....

Is it wrong or right to not allow a Christian family to raise children because they do not approve of homoseuxality?

Its not a question of homosexuality being "wrong" or "right"... It is rather a question of why a High Court would refuse the right of a couple to foster children based on thier otherwise (what should be, as professing Christians) upright system of life?

Would a Satanist couple be refuted? Would a Muslim? Menonnite? Buddahist? Taoist? Necormancer? It all seems silly... Each group has a specific outline of how to raise or mentor children, yet you do not hear of issues arising of this nature in other religious/social groupings. Thats what the whole problem that I, as a Christian, am saying. If you refuse a Christian, why not refuse everyone else? Why not refuse billionares who barely see their own children (save for photo ops, as PR is very important) yet have thier nannies do the rest? (*cough* Elton John, Brangelina etc...)

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Hey Hawaii50th.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. It sounds like he was a very good friend to you for you to miss him so much. (Btw. I'm not insinuating anything more than just a platonic friendship here. Lots of straight people have that with gay people too.)

I find it hard to understand how someone so dear to you can be seen as a pervert and all the other descriptions you connect with homosexuality. I guess for some people, trying to imagine walking in another person’s shoes and seeing life from a different perspective is hard to do.

If your friend were alive today, would you like to see him happily partnered, raising some kids and doing all the things that we take for granted? I don't know him, he may not have liked or wanted kids but the point is most gay people want to love, be loved, find that special person and yes indeed they do have paternal and maternal instincts like that of us heterosexuals. If there is a god and homosexuality isn’t a choice but a gift like that of love which we all have. Is that not a sign from god? When did love become such a wrong immoral thing? I don’t know.

A gay couple I know have two kids. They love their kids to bits and they are the most open minded, secure, confident, funny, mature young ones I know. Why? Because, most people who seek to adopt, foster or go for surrogacy want to be parents so bad they'll jump through hoops to do it. Sure they have their ups and downs like everyone else, but they feel so lucky to have their kids, in my opinion a great thing. Think how many kids are brought into this world by accident with parents who don't want them. There are lots.

However, this whole debate is about a couple who show homophobic views and wish to foster children. It's not because they are Christians that they have been refused. Just the homophobia they have expressed. I know Christians that don’t view homosexuality the way you or they do. There are very few people in the Christian faith that simply know or understand the whole content of the NT and live their life by it.

The people who place kids into the hands of foster carers will look at the attitudes of the 'would be' parents and they are after all, looking out for the child.
Like I say, there is a chance that a kid placed with them will be gay. There's no way of knowing until a person decides to come out. I've heard and read many horrific stories of people coming out. The pain and rejection they suffer by the very people that should be there to give them the love and support at such a pivotal time in their life is heartbreaking. Those kids in care have already gone through rejection and worse.

Open your mind and heart a little.

edit on 2-3-2011 by JonoEnglish because: (no reason given)

I never seen him in that way, some of the comments on here gets the better of me, this The Djin character comes across very arrogantly and I let'em get the better of me. I should have just let it go, cause there is no point and a waste of time with that type. I hate arrogance and I hate when people do that to other people, and I get caught up in it, there's so much of it, too much of and I don't like it, and it pisses me off. But no more, I'm not going to get involved in this type of useless talk.
As for my friend and I, we did not talk about his life style, it was his business and I didn't want to know what he did and I never questioned him about it. All I looked at was that he was a good person and we could always count on each other to be there to help in anyway. I don't have a problem with hugging, sleeping in the same room or if we have to, even the same bed. I don't believe it's right to have sex with the same sex. At one time a very long time ago, I didn't have a problem seeing two women go at it, in fact I would have liked to be in the middle. But something in me changed when I became a Christian, I saw things totally in a different way. My friend was still my friend and I went to visit him when he was sick, I didn't say anything that would have been judgmental I just wanted to be there for him and he knew that and that made him happy and that's all that mattered to me.
I don't expect anyone to understand my views, and I'm no bodies judge, we will all find out when the time comes what everything is all about.
I've had other friends that were gay, male and female, but the friendship wasn't best friends, just friends and acquaintances.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

(Jono sends you a big sloppy man kiss, in a hetero way.

)

You sound like a decent chap.

I agree with what you say, in an ideal way it would be great to break down the barriers we have and all live in peace.

However, this is the real world. There are people out there that seek to take advantage, steal, hurt, spread hate etc.

You wouldn't last very long in my neighbourhood giving out hetero man love.

Those barriers or walls are about self protection.

We create our world my friend. We build together, we just don't see each others contribution. Those who steal, hurt, hate, are just reflections of the world we live in. Who is anyone to judge them?

Rather than judge them, help them. Ask them what is wrong. Ask them what hurts them, what are they afraid of, what are they lacking. That is how you treat a Brother you love.

When the world realises this, and it will, that is when you will no longer need your walls. You will not need protection amongst your family.

There is no real world other than the one we create.

It's a coming.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Dendro

 

You define it as such, then you justify it as such by referring to the definition.

I think homosexuality is a fetish, just like all the other fetishes out there. You don't choose to be homo the same way you don't choose to be turned on by certain ideas or themes.

Is your heterosexuality a fetish?

Yes. Very much so. Not only that, but I have at least 100 related fetishes that have to do with my different attractions for the female form, and probably at least a dozen fetishes that include a male form, even though I am heterosexual.

My body was specifically engineered to procreate with a female, that is the only biological function I was born with, after that, I developed a great number of fetishes that serve to give me pleasure in addition to procreation, and none of them serve any biological purpose unless pulled muscles, overall messiness, and occasional rugburns have a biological purpose. The things that give me pleasure are fetishes, the biological act of reproducing is a function of my biological form. I am entirely capable of serving a biological purpose without pleasure, even dead bodies have given up their sperm when mechanically induced to do so, but the things I seek out and enjoy for pleasure are fetishes. Therefore, since homosexuality is something sought out for pleasure, it does not serve any biological function, and so it is necessarily a fetish.

I would venture to say that 0.04% or less of my sexual encounters were anything other than pleasureable fetish experiences. 2 resulted in children, so those two had a biological purpose. (and yes, I did do some math in my head, and yes I am bragging, LOL)

reply to post by IAMIAM


I can't love or show love to a guy that's kicking the c*ap out of someone else in the street in a fit of rage. I can't reason with that guy. I've confronted many idiots like that and the only thing that stops them is scaring the cr*p out of them or punching them hard before they punch you.

I'm glad you haven't met people like that. there's too many idiots like that around here.

I do pity them, they are messed up. Yes I would help them if they wanted the help but all you'd get back at a guess would be f&%* off

Originally posted by IronArm
reply to post by Annee

 

Back to the original question....

Is it wrong or right to not allow a Christian family to raise children because they do not approve of homoseuxality?

I posted somewhere in the first couple pages: there was a case where a Christian couple were fostering a baby. The courts gave the baby to a gay couple for adoption. The foster parents refused to give the gay couple the child and instead went to court to try to adopt the child themselves - - rather then let it go to a gay couple.

I believe this was in the UK.

After going through all the process to adopt a child - - now this gay couple had to endure more court cases - - in order to get their baby.

This case probably set a precedence to prevent a situation like this in the future.

It is probably why this couple was denied. As they should be.

Having a personal belief is one thing - - - but when that belief interferes with your job (any job) - - you are in violation.l

double post

reply to post by Annee



The question again...is it wrong to raise a child as a heteroseuxal? No mind religion...raise them that men having sex with women is normal (procreation) and that men with men (non-essential pleasure) is wrong.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
I can't love or show love to a guy that's kicking the c*ap out of someone else in the street in a fit of rage. I can't reason with that guy. I've confronted many idiots like that and the only thing that stops them is scaring the cr*p out of them or punching them hard before they punch you.

I'm glad you haven't met people like that. there's too many idiots like that around here.

I have met such people a time or two in my life. I grew up in the poor side of Baltimore Maryland, I served 14 years in the Marine Corps, I've been to the poorest parts of the world. Yes, I'd say I have seen my share of the ugliness of this world. I won't judge it though. The reason is because it is the world we have created. We can do better.

I also understand that the way you have figured out how to deal with this world seems to be effective. I suppose it is if you do not mind perpetuating a world of competition. Afterall, that is the law our world currently lives under.

It won't last though. The new world is one of cooperation. Do not believe it based on me saying it is so. If proof is what you need, then I say just watch. You will be made a believer before it is done.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
I do pity them, they are messed up. Yes I would help them if they wanted the help but all you'd get back at a guess would be f&%* off

Pity them indeed my friend. They are messed up because we have allowed the world to mess them up. We did not protect them in some way or form. They are trying to tell the world they are hurting through their actions. We do not listen and heal, we condemn and inflict more pain.

You must find it in you to help because it is right, not because you expect something back. This is the way of the new world. Be a debtor to no one and let no one owe you anything.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


I was going to delete my last post as it kind of makes me look like a complete knuckle dragging d**k. I hate violence. When i stated when someone is in a fit of rage, I hope you will understand what I mean by that. You can't pacify someone who is at that stage unless you know them. Maybe you can, but I'm not that quick thinking I certainly can't show them any love.

I understand there are issues that make people snap like that but oh I don't know. I guess you can only help someone that wants to be helped is what I'm trying to get at.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Is your heterosexuality a fetish?

Yes. Very much so. Not only that, but I have at least 100 related fetishes that have to do with my different attractions for the female form, and probably at least a dozen fetishes that include a male form, even though I am heterosexual.

My body was specifically engineered to procreate with a female, that is the only biological function I was born with, after that, I developed a great number of fetishes that serve to give me pleasure in addition to procreation, and none of them serve any biological purpose unless pulled muscles, overall messiness, and occasional rugburns have a biological purpose.

Uh huh - - and how do you get rug burns on the tops of your toes.

But you claim to be heterosexual. You were born heterosexual.

You can interpret what you refer to as fetishes all you want. But - scientific fact shows the brain of a gay man is different then that of a straight man. That a gay man's brain actually has characteristic similar to a woman's.

Brain scan technology is the new field of medicine and behavior.

There is scientific proof of genetics in why a man is gay. However - - Funding is the major road block in further studies. Seems there is also gay prejudice in getting funds for these studies.

reply to post by Annee



Or mayhaps forwarding spending to more pressing issues, such as cancer research, hospital funding, educational expences...are a wee bit more more pressing than if a gay person has a brain that works differently that a normal one. Just a hypothesis.

reply to post by Annee



And as for the brain function issue....correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the neurological pathways different from a serial killer to a normal persons? The functions of a child different from an adult?

reply to post by Annee


No, I was born to be 1/2 of a biological pair that is only useful in a Heterosexual context. Outside of that context, my sexual biology is useless.

I developed my affinity for the pleasure of heterosexual fetishes and experiences long after I was born, and I still develop new ones today!

And for the Brain kinesiology, they cannot establish a cause and effect relationship. Is the brain different because they are homosexual, or are they homosexual because the brain is different? Is the brain different because of genetics, or because of life-altering experiences during key developmental periods? Are there men that have brains similar to women but live heterosexually? And vice versa?

**********************************
And for the record, I didn't mention rug burns on the tops of my toes, but that would be nothing, I have had rug burns on the top of my head before!

Originally posted by IronArm
reply to post by Annee

 

The question again...is it wrong to raise a child as a heteroseuxal? No mind religion...raise them that men having sex with women is normal (procreation) and that men with men (non-essential pleasure) is wrong.

Gay couples try to raise their children as heteros. It is just as devastating for them to have a gay child - - - knowing how difficult it is to be gay.

A "parent is a parent" --- Every caring parent wants the best for their child. Who wouldn't want their child fitting into the main stream of social acceptance?

Do you know what some psychologists recommend to parents of an Autistic or severely disabled child? They recommend you have a Funeral. Yes - a Funeral. You Bury - - the "perfect" child you planned for - - the one you had all the "perfect" dreams for. Then you have a New Birth Awakening ceremony for the actual child you have. A ceremony that accepts that child just as they are.

If you have beliefs that would prevent you from accepting a child just as they are - - - then there is a problem.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Annee

 

No, I was born to be 1/2 of a biological pair that is only useful in a Heterosexual context. Outside of that context, my sexual biology is useless.

That just doesn't cut it anymore.

As a professional recently said - - - "we now know sexuality is all shades of gray".

Originally posted by IronArm
reply to post by Annee

 

And as for the brain function issue....correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the neurological pathways different from a serial killer to a normal persons? The functions of a child different from an adult?

The new brain scan technology is quite interesting. I've watched several discussion shows on it - - plus did some reading up on it.

It is now believed that - at least some - murderers (etc) are born. That many behaviors are born.

Can early detection and brain manipulation prevent or correct behaviors?

There is also belief (maybe studies) that if you use certain parts of the brain - - that the brain will continue to develop in that area.

In other words - - if you are good at math - - and you focus your brain in that area - - your brain area for math will grow and develop.

So the old saying: "use your brain - it will keep you alert" - - seems to be true.

reply to post by Annee


I totally agree with sexuality being all shades of gray. Just this weekend my buddies and I were discussing the transition of our sexuality. One of my buddies is quite the player, and an athlete, and very popular, and as he approaches 30 years old, he has become bored with regular sex, or even what most people would consider kinky sex. I feel the say way, and our discussion drifted way, way out into no-no land. Apparently he has already experimented with transvestites, and is considering accepting the advances of a mutual homosexual friend. He isn't attracted to him, but he is bored with the status quo, and he wants to branch out a little.

We reached the conclusion that our sexuality morphs as we gain more and more experience, and it takes newer and different things to continually get us excited.

All of that is irrelavent to our biological make-up. Our sexuality as it pertains to pleasure and attraction might drift to and fro, but our equipment is only useful for procreation with the opposite sex. We are only born a specific gender for that one reason. Everything after that is psychological and not genetic.