Revelation; Project complete, index, summary

ch22

v17- "let him who hears say "Come!"
That is to say, individual believers who hear or read these visions should join the corporate church ("the Spirit and the Bride") in urging Christ to return quickly.

ch22

v17; The invitation to the thirsty.
This is another version of the invitation given in ch21 v6. Like the earlier verse, it combines the invitation to the thirsty given by Jesus in John ch7 v37 ("If anyone thirst, let him come...living water"), and the similar invitation that God gives in Isaiah ch55 v1, which is where "without price" comes from.

In this place, "let him come" obviously picks up on "Come!" in the first half of the verse. This might be a little confusing, because the appeal in the first half of the verse is addressed to Jesus, So the verb "come" has different meanings in the two halves of the verse.
However, this ambiguity well expresses the point that the movement is reciprocal. If we want Jesus to come to us, we must be willing to come to him.
The coming of men to Jesus, and the call for him to come, are expressions of the same thirst.
Perhaps he is most likely to come when his church is most desirous of seeing him.

ch22

v20; This verse is the real sequel to v17. The earlier verse had the invitation Come!", and this verse is the response.
This is the third time in this chapter (following v6 and v12) that the promise "I am coming soon" has been given.
Only in this verse does John name the speaker (in his thankful reply), but there was never any real ambiguity.
The same speaker identified himself as Jesus in v16 (the angel who speaks to John in these last two chapters is not Jesus himself but only his obedient mouthpiece).
"He who testifies to these things" refers back to v6- "These words are trustworthy and true", and also to the fact that Jesus Christ is called a "faithful witness" in ch1 v5.
In any case, the church was expecting and praying for Christ to return, so the words "I am coming soon" would not have been associated with anyone else.

reply to post by DISRAELI

Creation theory falls short of being genuine Monism, because the created universe is understood as distinct from God.

I was always told that "God" is in everything, that "God" is all around. If this is true, how do you define 'distinct'? If this is false, from what source have you taken this idea?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

As I point out in the definition you've just looked at, the act of communication implies a distinction.
People do not communicate with parts of themselves- they communicate with "others".
If God communicates with the universe or what is within the universe, then God must be distinct from the universe.

reply to post by DISRAELI

People do not communicate with parts of themselves-

Who says? Usually, it's said to be voices in your head, or dreams and visions. Doesn't that usually come from the mind? Isn't the mind part of us? Hasn't the Bible said that "God" can be found inside of us as well as outside?

Also, can we have this discussion on the other thread, considering that thread more specifically address the nature of "God"? Thanks!

reply to post by AfterInfinity

OK.
I just responded in the place where you were posting.

ch22

vv18-19
A serious warnig against changing the wording of Revelation.
The bad things desrcibed in the book will be added to those who add material, the good things described in the book will be taken away from those who take things away.
We might want to understand this warning as directed primarily against copying errors.
However, that is certainly not the whole story, because the warning also echoes the warning of Moses in Deuteronomy;
"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it"- Deuteronomy ch4 v2
The common factor is that both books are dealing with the establishment of a covenant between God and his people, and that's what makes the exact wording so important.

Just to clarify;
Nothing in the OP is intended to suggest any particular prophetic significance in the year 2012 or the date 21/12/2012

reply to post by DISRAELI


My response to the claims made about the year 2012 was that I could see no prophetic significance in the date.
This position seems to have been vindicated.

ch.22

v18-19; Although the warning about "not changing the text" is about Revelation itself in the first instance, it is iften taken for the Bble as a whole.
Of course, this is prompted by the fact that Revelation is the last book of the bible and these are the closing words.
For that matter. the fact that this chapter is focussed on the person of Jesus, and demands that the reader make a choice between following and not following, can also be taken as representative of the Bible as a whole.

ch22
Depending on the manuscipts, the last verse of Revalation offers the grace of the Lord Jesus to "all of you", or to "all the saints".
However, they come to the same thing, because John would not have distinguished.
He would take it for granted that all his readers were among "the saints", those set apart for God.
So the blessing has the same meaning, with or without the final word.

ch1
v1 This is called the revelation "of" Jesus Christ.
Meaning, as what follows makes clear, a revelation by Jesus Christ

ch1

v1; The sequence of the revelation process;
It was God who gave the revelation to Jesus Christ.
Christ then sent his "angel" (presumably the image seen later in the chapter) to "his servant John".
John saw the vision and gives his testimony, and the blessing extends the line of transmission to those who read the words aloud and those who hear and absorb them.

ch1
The revelation begins on a note of "assurance".
The first chapter, from the first words, is governed by the knwoledge that there is a state of oppression and persecution, from which the church wants to escape. It is implicit in the "tribulation" and the "patient endurance" and the reason why John is in Patmos. Therefore the first key point is the assurance that the events which are about to be described are events which must soon take place. The book is identified from the beginning as a message of hope. John's intention is to comfort his readers by telling them that relief will not long be delayed.

I think you are right to put this in this forum as it deals with predictions. I will try give time to reading everything but the content is big

I wonder greatly on the reason for writing revelations, was it for the past, for each generation or for a big change...

reply to post by guidetube

Most certainly it's in the right forum.
The rubric at the top of each thread says the forum is for published predictions including ancient prophecy, and this book comes into the category of published ancient prophecy.
As the rubric then goes on to say, the personal predictions that everybody puts into this forum are the ones that don't belong here. They should be going in "Dreams and predictions" instead.

I think John was writing for two generations of the church facing persecution; one in his own time, and one in the end-times. Its purpose is to encourage the church to keep going, so in the intervals when the church isn't facing persecution, the book isn't really needed.

ch1
v1- "...which God gave him to show to his servants".
In this we should hear an echo of Amos ch3 v7;
"Surely the Lord God does nothing without revealing it to his servants the prophets".

reply to post by DISRAELI

In that Amos passage, the prophet is making the point that all events have their causes, and that evil does not happen to a city unless the Lord has a hand in the matter. The same is true about the state of the church and of the world in the Revelation. The Lord is in overall control of the whole scene, whatever appearances may suggest.

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