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Zeitgeist Totally Refuted! (Do not post Zeitgeist BS ever again)

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posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenKnight

Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


*looks up author* Ah, D.M. Murdock, Acharya S.
Acharya S. is not an archaeologist. Her sources are false and misrepresented.
Provide a real scholar who agrees with these opinions.


Despite your antagonistic hatred for a female author that you have clearly never read, there are several professional scholars who do support her work. Oh, she has posted pics of her on archaeological digs in Crete where the apostle Paul supposedly was so, now would be a really good time for you to simply stop lying out your arse.

"Osiris is doubly resurrected as his son Horus, too, and he, too, is eventually raised from the dead by Isis. He is pictured as spanning the dome of heaven, his arms stretched out in a cruciform pattern. As such, he seems to represent the common Platonic astronomical symbol of the sun s path crossing the earths ecliptic...."

"I find myself in full agreement with Acharya S/D.M. Murdock"

"I find it undeniable that many of the epic heroes and ancient patriarchs and matriarchs of the Old Testament were personified stars, planets, and constellations."

- Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar
www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com...

Was there something in the quote below that you don't understand?

"Your scholarship is relentless! The research conducted by D.M. Murdock concerning the myth of Jesus Christ is certainly both valuable and worthy of consideration."

- Dr. Kenneth L. Feder, Professor of Archaeology
www.freethoughtnation.com...

I don't dislike her because she is female. What even brought that up? I could care less about her gender. I take issue with her psuedo-archaeology, lack of reputable sources, and new-age crap. Acharya S. is a shill. I also don't care about Robert Price, seeing as he was involved in the Jesus Seminar, he has shown himself to be biased and inept.

I will see who this Kenneth Feder is, however.
edit on 17-2-2011 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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Hahahahahaha. Pat not packed

That post was ridden with syntax, and grammatical errors...

Oops, maybe I should proof read more thoroughly before posting...

Live and learn.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


Provide sources independent of the Zeitgeist movement. Give me real scholars, not Acharya S., Freke, Gandy, or Peter Joseph. The guy you keep linking to sources Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist's sources. I want real scholars, real professors, and real archaeologists.


The main problem here is glaringly obvious and as transparent as glass - you simply don't have a clue what you're talking about and, you're very dishonest about it. I've provided you with a review of Acharya's book by a biblical scholar and a professor of archaeology both are 30 year scholars. You repeatedly do the typical Christian hand-waving dismissal of everything that proves you wrong. In most of the links I've shared also provide source citations from a large variety of scholars. Your dishonest constant stream of dismissals will not suffice.

You could easily read The Updated Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010)
www.stellarhousepublishing.com...

It contains highly respected and highly credentialed scholars substantiating part 1 of Zeitgeist.

Here's what a few other scholars say about the work by Acharya S:

"I can recommend your work whole-heartedly!"
—Dr. Robert Eisenman, James the Brother of Jesus and The New Testament Code, RobertEisenman.com

"I've known people with triple Ph.D's who haven't come close to the scholarship in Who Was Jesus?"
—Pastor David Bruce, M.Div, North Park Seminary, Chicago, HollywoodJesus.com

"Thirty years ago, when in divinity school, I might have had second thoughts about becoming an Episcopal priest if a book like D. M. Murdock's Who Was Jesus? had been available to me."
—Bob Semes, Retired university professor of History and Religion, Founder and Executive Director of The Jefferson Center

"Ms. Murdock is one of only a tiny number of scholars with the richly diverse academic background (and the necessary courage) to adequately address the question of whether Jesus Christ truly existed as a walking-talking figure in first-century Palestine."
—David Mills, Atheist Universe

"Thank you, Acharya, for the important work you are doing. Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of the Christ just might be the best short introduction to Biblical scholarship yet."
—David Bergland, 1984 Libertarian Party Presidential Candidate, Libertarianism In One Lesson

"...I have found her scholarship, research, knowledge of the original languages, and creative linkages to be breathtaking and highly stimulating."
—Rev. Dr. Jon Burnham, Pastor, Presbyterian Church, Houston, TX

"Acharya S has done a superb job in bringing together the rich panoply of ancient world mythology and culture, and presenting it in a comprehensive and compelling fashion."
—Earl Doherty, The Jesus Puzzle

"The Christ Conspiracy—very, very scholarly and wholly researched—is a book for today..."
-Rev. B. Strauss, ex-Catholic Priest, Chicago, IL


edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


The video did not at all debunk the comments by Justin Martyr. Addressing something, poorly and briefly doesn't mean you have successfully debunked it. Others have posted quotes from Justin Martyr, and I provided a starting link, which clearly show that he was acknowledging startling similarities between Christianity and mythologies which long predated Christianity.

Have you read Justin Martyr regarding this or just watched a failed debunking by a Christian which you accepted without question because your prime motivation is to defend your faith, rather than discover the truth?
edit on 17-2-2011 by Malcram because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


Hey look: Hindus refuting Acharya S.
www.hindudharmaforums.com...
I guess disgust for false comparisons is an aspect of all religions (a hidden connection???!!!
)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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kallisti36: "I don't dislike her because she is female. What even brought that up? I could care less about her gender. I take issue with her psuedo-archaeology, lack of reputable sources, and new-age crap. Acharya S. is a shill. I also don't care about Robert Price, seeing as he was involved in the Jesus Seminar, he has shown himself to be biased and inept.

I will see who this Kenneth Feder is, however."

Sorry but, it is *YOU* who's the shill here. Your biases and prejudice are as transparent as glass. What actual book by Acharya S have you ever read? NONE from where I stand. Stop being so dishonest.
edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by Malcram
reply to post by tinfoilman
 


The video did not at all debunk the comments by Justin Martyr. Addressing something, poorly and briefly doesn't mean you have successfully debunked it. Others have posted quotes from Justin Martyr, and I provided a starting link, which clearly show that he was acknowledging startling similarities between Christianity and mythologies which long predated Christianity.

Have you read Justin Martyr regarding this or just watched a failed debunking by a Christian which you accepted without question because your prime motivation is to defend your faith, rather than discover the truth?
edit on 17-2-2011 by Malcram because: (no reason given)


Like I said, I'm not here to debate if there are similarities between Christianity and other religion or not, you may be right about that, but that doesn't mean Zeitgest is correct. The video claims Zeitgeist has misquoted Justin Martyr and taken his words out of context. Are you claiming that's not true?

I'm only interested in what Zeitgeist says about Justin Martyr and if it's correct or not. Does Zeitgeist misquote and misrepresent Justin Martyr? If you watch the video you'll find out they do indeed misquote him and misrepresent what he is saying and take his words out of context.

Like I said before. I'm not here to debate Justin Martyr. I'm only here to debate what Zeitgeist says Justin Martyr said. The problem is not Justin Martyr. The problem is Zeitgeist is trying to make it sound like Justin Martyr said something he didn't actually say.


edit on 17-2-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


Ok, I see alot of ex-Clergy and biased sources all provided by the insular Zeitgeist community. Provide some claims of Acharya's and we'll test them against actual archaeology and theology. provide an example you think the videos missed.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by kallisti36
 


Sure, some hindus are going to be as antagonistic to the idea that their religion is similar to another religion as Christians are. So whats your point?



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:34 PM
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I know its already been said before, but its also my opinion so here goes...
To most people zeitgeist represents a critique of current values primarily and secondarily proposes an alternative global system, in that order. The religous aspect, whether that is worship of the sun, christianity, mormonism etc is of less importance to the message of zeitgeist
I'm not sure whether I must have dropped off during the part where religions are addressed, but I couldn't really care less about that aspect of zeitgeist. However, thats not all of it, I contend that this is an opinion shared by most of those who watch zeitgeist whether they agree with the message or not.

Thus I disagree strongly with OP saying that zeitgeist has been totally refuted. I understand that some see zeitgeist as some kind of devil incarnate or by means which a sinister world government could be established. But the way to 'defeat' zeitgeist is to take on its core contentions / theories, not by looking for holes in its minor theories. That is not so easy to do because many of those main critiques ring true, certainly when looking at the miserable state of the world today.

Anyway, thats my ha'penny's worth!



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


Hey look: Hindus refuting Acharya S.
www.hindudharmaforums.com...
I guess disgust for false comparisons is an aspect of all religions (a hidden connection???!!!
)


I see many problems throughout that thread. Calling Acharya S a liar can only come from those who've never actually read her work for starters - she does not need to lie about anything. So that is a knee-jerk reaction that is your own issue that *YOU* must deal with. I sense that these types of rants come from those who often don't know much about their own religion. Acharya S is fully aware of the current status-quo beliefs on a variety of religions but that is not what she writes about - I mean, she explains that, but also digs deeper and provides more ancient beliefs and provides citation from scholars. So, to call her a liar merely reflects your own character flaws and ignorance on her work and the issues she brings up.

The Virgin-Born Son of the Sun God
www.freethoughtnation.com...

Was Krishna's Mother a Virgin?
www.freethoughtnation.com...

That article by Callahan was already addressed long ago. She mops the floor with him and his ignorance.

Skeptic Mangles ZEITGEIST
(and Religious History)
by Acharya S
stellarhousepublishing.com...

kallisti36, you are clearly looking for whatever trash you can dig up on the net. You are irresponsible, not to be trusted and possibly dangerous spreading around these blatant LIES. You obviously have no interest in being objective or honest.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by Malcram
 


I guess my point would be that Krishna was not born of a virgin, crucified, did not have twelve disciples, and was not resurrected and that these connections between Ya'hshuah and Krishna are dishonest and ignorant.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


Ok, well then let me ask you to do some work for a change. You post the evidence here proving Zeitgeist misquoted or misrepresented Jusin Martyr and I'll address that when I get the time.

And pleas don't just point me to the video posted earlier, because I tried to do that earlier and you insisted it be posted here. I provided links to Justin Martyr and others which you didn't or couldn't read.

So it's your turn. You claim Zeitgeist misrepresented Justin's comments. So provide some quotes.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


Ok, I see alot of ex-Clergy and biased sources all provided by the insular Zeitgeist community. Provide some claims of Acharya's and we'll test them against actual archaeology and theology. provide an example you think the videos missed.


This is your bull# thread, not mine. You provide what you called earlier the "lies" & "forgeries" and I will prove you wrong as I already stated.

"ex-Clergy and biased sources all provided by the insular Zeitgeist community"

Another bull# lie. That seems to be all you have to offer.
edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


You are clearly looking for anything on the internet to reconcile the lies in Zeitgeist and of Acharya S. Nearly all of your sources are Acharya S. Who as another poster pointed out "of course she would agree with herself".


"I know that Devaki being a virgin is irrelevant. Because Rama's mother Kausalya was not a virgin.

Krishna also never had disciples because He was not a person that went around declaring His divinity.

And no one knew the divinity of Krishna except Arjuna!

Krishna also never performed miracles to prove that He had supernatural powers.

From a young age He constantly does things to CONCEAL His divinity f.e the incident where Yashoda asks Krishna to open his mouth to show whether He has swallowed sand. Yashoda sees universe after universe within Krishna's mouth.

Then completely losing her composure and becoming distressed she wonders if her child was infact a Divine being. Krishna then alters her memory by making her forget about the incident.

Krishna was also never resurrected, lol

Thats an incredibly stupid abrahamic idea.

Here is Acharya S' website links where she tries to "expose" Krishna" Oh look a Hindu who actually might understand his own religion



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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kallisti36,

What books by Acharya S/D.M. Murdock have you actually read?

edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenKnight

Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


I'm already unimpressed with this video. The guy jumps right into the Dec 25th nonsense. Even if the birthdays of Osiris or Horus were on these days, it wouldn't matter, because Ya'hshuah's birthday is never given. However, I will continue watching.
edit on 17-2-2011 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)


You don't know much about the Gnostics do you. Or commentary from early church fathers on this issue.

Several early Christian writers connected the rebirth of the sun to the birth of Jesus:

"O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born ... Christ should be born"

- Cyprian

She has some topics in her FAQ's:

"What about December 25th and the winter solstice?"

"3 Kings/Orion's Belt & Solstice/Christmas"

www.freethoughtnation.com...


There is some wordplay done by the gnostics here. They see the christ as the christ principle.
They believe that after Yashayah's death at calvary that the christ principle left Yashayah and entered appolonius of tayana.
It is appolonius that went to India and is recorded there by the mystics.
As the centuries went on more and more was attributed to appolonius so as to raise him up as a replacement for Yah
edit on 17-2-2011 by manna2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


Dhavaki conceived Krishna via "mental transmission", but this is irrelevant because she had seven other children before Krishna. So there was no virgin birth. The comparison to Ya'hshuah being conceived of the holy spirit in the womb of a virgin is wafer thin.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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Here's a video clip of modern Egyptologist Dr. Bojana Mojsov admitting parallels between Osiris &/or Horus with Jesus. And, at 5:30 you'll see a stone carving of Isis as she hovers over Osiris in the form of a bird to receive the divine seed (notice there's no 'member') of Osiris. Mojsov then says, "It's a miraculous birth of the savior child."




posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


Calm down dude and lower the font. To be honest, I have not read any book of hers in it's entirety. I do however, know what claims she makes in her books and I know they are wrong.



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