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Zeitgeist Totally Refuted! (Do not post Zeitgeist BS ever again)

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posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by Malcram
 


Yeah I did ignore it. There's something wrong with a professor who doesn't understand that virgin birth implies a virgin giving birth. An actual virgin giving birth being a lot more impressive than a woman who had 7 kids from sex giving birth to an eighth through mental conception.

Mary=Virgin who conceived by the holy spirit
Devaki=Not a virgin; conceived via telepathy




posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 07:39 PM
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The topic IS:

Zeitgeist Totally Refuted! (Do not post Zeitgeist BS ever again)



The topic IS NOT:
fellow members Nor their self, character or person




Please focus further replies on the Actual topic of discussion.





Thank you



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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tinfoilman,

Which specific video and what time does it discuss Justin Martyr? I've seen it before but need more specifics. The argument they put forth is a typical Christian apologist argument.

I don't see that Zeitgeist took what Justin Martyr said out of context. You can simply read his entire first apology and see that.


edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenKnight
LOL,

All you do here is demonstrate your own utter ignorance, biases and prejudice on these issues.

The Virgin-Born Son of the Sun God
www.freethoughtnation.com...


Why do you keep posting the same unconvincing link over & over?

No matter what you think of the rest of the NWO propaganda that is asseverated in the film--the OPs point is mostly established. You may think you didn't read me right, but yeah: The Venus Project and the thinking behind it is exactly the kind of rhetoric that the NWO will enslave us ALL with no matter our particular religious beliefs or lack thereof. It will sound all warm & fuzzy but won't feel like it.

I know what might make you feel better. A two-fer. Pop some popcorn and watch Zeitgeist followed by 'The Secret.' You won't be any smarter nor any more enlightened--just the opposite--but you will probably feel better.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenKnight
post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.


[Please do not alter or edit staff actions]




edit on 2/17/2011 by 12m8keall2c because: (no reason given)


Mod Note: Please do not discuss staff actions in the inappropriate forum. Please use Complaint Feature.
edit on 2/17/11 by niteboy82 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by kallisti36
 


It.s ok, OP. I fought tooth and nail to hang on to my beliefs too. It was very disconcerting to learn that my christian belief system may have been built on lies. Eventually I realized that it was Christianity that was pulling off a fraud, not the people who made films like Zeitgeist. One day you'll come to realize the same thing, that you've been suckered by religion and dogma, all of which are devoid of true spirituality.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by GoldenKnight
LOL,

All you do here is demonstrate your own utter ignorance, biases and prejudice on these issues.

The Virgin-Born Son of the Sun God
www.freethoughtnation.com...


Why do you keep posting the same unconvincing link over & over?

No matter what you think of the rest of the NWO propaganda that is asseverated in the film--the OPs point is mostly established. You may think you didn't read me right, but yeah: The Venus Project and the thinking behind it is exactly the kind of rhetoric that the NWO will enslave us ALL with no matter our particular religious beliefs or lack thereof. It will sound all warm & fuzzy but won't feel like it.


*snip.* Actually that's the ONLY time I posted that link. And, had you actually read it you would've noticed several quotes from Hindu scholars proving Acharya S correct. So, you too are not actually reading the links and just jumping to false assumptions.

I don't buy all the NWO crap nor does some punk, high school drop out like Kieth truth establish anything beyond his own Christian extremism.
edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


The problem with your link also, is that it is making different claims than what is in the orig Zeitgeist video. We're not here to debate every topic under the sun that MIGHT be true or not. We're just here trying to debate the claims made in the Zeitgeist video.

For example it links to the Kunti-Surya-Karna, but this is not something I think is addressed in the Zeitgeist video that we're discussing.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
Stop using Acharya S. as a source to prove Acharya's claims.


That is a lie. You are making the assumption that just because something is posted on a website of Acharya's that it can't possibly be citing credible sources from highly respected and credentialed scholars, which she most certainly does. That way you can repeatedly make these fabricated comments and do your typical hand-waving dismissal without EVER actually reading anything at all. It's blatant intellectual dishonesty.

You clearly have no intention of ever being objective, reasonable or even honest. Yep, you've learned from Keith Trash and Chris White for sure!!!

edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


The problem with your link also, is that it is making different claims than what is in the orig Zeitgeist video. We're not here to debate every topic under the sun that MIGHT be true or not. We're just here trying to debate the claims made in the Zeitgeist video.

For example it links to the Kunti-Surya-Karna, but this is not something I think is addressed in the Zeitgeist video that we're discussing.


Yeah, it really did prove a point that has come up here, which is that the claim that "Krishna's mother was not a virgin but had previously given birth to seven others"

"As it turns out - and as can be seen from numerous links in the forum post "Was Krishna's Mother a Virgin?" - Indian religion and mythology very much possess the notions of a virgin-born hero and virgin mother, found in the very texts in which Krishna is made famous. Indeed, the writer of the Mahabharata, himself named Krishna, was said to have been virgin born! In consideration of the fact that the Mahabharata ... was begun several centuries before the Christian era, if the oldest strata included this tale of their purported author being named Krishna and being virgin born, then we have in this legend a Krishna with a virgin mother centuries before Christ allegedly existed."

And then proceeds to provide a few quotes from Hindu scholars and the Mahabharata.

www.freethoughtnation.com...

www.freethoughtnation.com...
edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by kallisti36
 


I know, I know, theres alway's 'something wrong' with a scholar who says something inconvenient for you. I get the picture.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by Visiting ESB
reply to post by kallisti36
 


It.s ok, OP. I fought tooth and nail to hang on to my beliefs too. It was very disconcerting to learn that my christian belief system may have been built on lies. Eventually I realized that it was Christianity that was pulling off a fraud, not the people who made films like Zeitgeist. One day you'll come to realize the same thing, that you've been suckered by religion and dogma, all of which are devoid of true spirituality.


I don't think people understand. All beliefs are divisive. It does not have to be about religion. Politics, the process of raising children, gay rights, unions, governments rights (even though we, the US, has a written constitution stating such). So for everyone that says... "oh man, religion is so divisive. It has created so many wars." Well religion can't because it has no guns, no arms, no moving parts (get it), but PEOPLE can and do. But besides that, many other things under the sun also lead to war. If a majority of any nation believed in worshiping the sun, there would be a minority that would have issue with it and fight it, create videos about how the moon was worshiped first or how the earth was worshiped first or that worship is irrelevant and should be eliminated.

In regards to the religious portion of the original Zeitgeist film, I think there is too many unsubstantiated claims in it and it seems they prey on the fact that so many people fight the concept of religion, which leads to a big audience. And for those Christians who flip and become agnostic or atheist because of Zeitgeist, well your faith wasn't strong in the first place. Let's face it, we don't have much else to go on in this world other than FAITH.

Peace
edit on 17-2-2011 by six67seven because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2011 by six67seven because: i wanted to



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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"The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" (Hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a, cf. 809c)"

"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares:

"I am the great virgin"

"The Egyptian goddess who was equally ‘the Great Virgin’ (hwnt) and ‘Mother of the God’ was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]."
- Dr. Witt, an Egyptologist

- Christ in Egypt, page 152

* The Pyramid Texts are 4,400 years old and are a primary source.

From Osiris to Christ part 3
www.youtube.com...

From Osiris to Christ part 4
www.youtube.com...



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Visiting ESB
reply to post by kallisti36
 


It.s ok, OP. I fought tooth and nail to hang on to my beliefs too. It was very disconcerting to learn that my christian belief system may have been built on lies. Eventually I realized that it was Christianity that was pulling off a fraud, not the people who made films like Zeitgeist. One day you'll come to realize the same thing, that you've been suckered by religion and dogma, all of which are devoid of true spirituality.


That's funny and I truly don't mean that in a smart-mouthed way. I rejected Christianity for a long time. It was actually my experience of spending three years in the new age community that left me feeling that the 'spirituality' that my friends espoused was the real shill. A syncretic mix of eastern philosophy and whatever sounded and felt good. Many of them didn't even know the genesis of where their practices came from.

And that included spending time and energy with some of the best-selling authors and sages that particular community had to offer. For me, it takes A LOT more suspension of disbelief to entertain some of that hoo-ha than it does the Word.

I saw their lives up close and, ultimately, it had little resemblance to the dogma they proffered. A lot of folks who profess Christianity are pretty much like that too I confess.

But what eventually got me was a gig I ended up doing with a small mountain church that has clung to a longtime tradition that most of the world finds outdated (Sacred Harp Singing.)

Their lives reflected their beliefs. I couldn't deny it. I wanted to look at them as backwoods but they proved to be world-class. They welcome ALL kinds of folk in and treat them with respect. Even my gay new age friend I brought with me in relation to the video work I was doing with them. Don't get me wrong: They see sin in whatever form sexual immorality might take, but they don't really judge.

I don't attend their church regularly, but I do visit. I love ALL my friends; New Age and Christian, but as far as what kind of person I wanna be, these truly loving folk have given me an example that has teeth.

Christianity can be proved...but only to ones-self.

edit on 17-2-2011 by The GUT because: clarification



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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kallisti36, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question below.


Originally posted by GoldenKnight
kallisti36,

What books by Acharya S/D.M. Murdock have you actually read?

edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenKnight

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


The problem with your link also, is that it is making different claims than what is in the orig Zeitgeist video. We're not here to debate every topic under the sun that MIGHT be true or not. We're just here trying to debate the claims made in the Zeitgeist video.

For example it links to the Kunti-Surya-Karna, but this is not something I think is addressed in the Zeitgeist video that we're discussing.


Yeah, it really did prove a point that has come up here, which is that the claim that "Krishna's mother was not a virgin but had previously given birth to seven others"

"As it turns out - and as can be seen from numerous links in the forum post "Was Krishna's Mother a Virgin?" - Indian religion and mythology very much possess the notions of a virgin-born hero and virgin mother, found in the very texts in which Krishna is made famous. Indeed, the writer of the Mahabharata, himself named Krishna, was said to have been virgin born! In consideration of the fact that the Mahabharata ... was begun several centuries before the Christian era, if the oldest strata included this tale of their purported author being named Krishna and being virgin born, then we have in this legend a Krishna with a virgin mother centuries before Christ allegedly existed."

www.freethoughtnation.com...

www.freethoughtnation.com...
edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)


I'm not arguing that other religions didn't have the concept of a virgin birth. We're just talking about the Zeitgeist video.

You may be correct when you say someone was born a virgin, but the issue is, the Zeitgeist claims that Krishna was a virgin birth, and when checked we find out that's not to be true. Like I said, I'm not saying there are NO similarities between religions. I'm just saying Zeitgeist has made false claims.

So your response is that the writer of the Mahabharata was named Krishna and was virgin born.

First, this is not a claim made by the Zeitgeist video. The Zeitgeist video doesn't address this issue, nor does it use this issue to try and justify Krishna's virgin birth.

Also, your link is in error. The writer of the Mahabharata was not named Krishna, but was named Vyasa whom may have been called Krishna, but Krishna was not his name and as we see there is no claim of a virgin birth for Vyasa anywhere but your own link, which I believe to be in error. I can also find no source to claim they were crucified like is claimed in Zeitgeist the video.

Remember, no one is claiming there was no one ever named Krishna. What we are claiming is that they were not virgin born, which appears to be so if you check other sources, and was not crucified like Zeitgeist claims.

Also when you check the Zeitgeist video it claims Krishna's mother is Devaki. Therefore we know that Zeitgeist is not referring to Vyasa who's mother was not Devki, but referring to Krishna

So we know which of the two Zeitgeist was referring to because they reference Devaki. So it was this Krishna who has a mother named Devaki that Zeitgeist refers to who was not virgin born and was not crucified. Zeitgeist was not referring to the Vyasa from your link that wrote the Mahabharata who may have been called Krishna .

Remember it can't be just any Krishna that was virgin born and crucified. It has to be the one Zeitgest was referring to. Even so, I can't find any scholarly sources as of yet that Vyasa was virgin born or crucified either. And remember, even if your link was correct, there is still no claim of a crucification for Vyasa which would still leave Zeitgeist in error for claiming that Krishna was crucified. However, when Zeitgeist claims Devaki as Krishna's mother we automatically know which person they're talking about.

But remember, I'm not here to debate your link. I'm here to debate Zeitgest, and even if your link was correct in its claim, which it is not, it's irrelevant. Zeitgeist's claims on the matter would still be wrong either way.
edit on 17-2-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by kallisti36
 


Long before I ever heard about Zeitgeist, I was well aware of the similarities of the sun religions.

Have you ever seen "Symbols of an Alien Sky", or read any of the Thunderbolts Project?
www.thunderbolts.info...

Highly recommended perspectives mixing astronomy, physics and anthropology.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:12 PM
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tinfoilman "You may be correct when you say someone was born a virgin, but the issue is, the Zeitgeist claims that Krishna was a virgin birth, and when checked we find out that's not to be true."

That is demonstrably false; substantiated by Hindu scholars and Hindu texts such as the Mahabharata. All you had to do was read the thread - further down you will see quotes substantiating the claim in Mahabharata as well as Hindu scholars confirming it as pre-Christian.

tinfoilman "your link is in error. The writer of the Mahabharata was not named Krishna, but was named Vyasa whom may have been called Krishna, but Krishna was not his name and as we see there is no claim of a virgin birth for Vyasa"

Nope, his original name was Krishna Dwaipayana. Dig deeper, don't just grab the first thing you see off the net. There was no error - that's what happens when people rely on Wikipedia but, since that's not in Zeitgeist I won't get into it here.

"Author of the Mahabharata is Vyasa, a child of illicit union .... His original name is Krishna Dwaipayana or the ‘dark-one-born-on-a-river-island’. "
devdutt.com...

Born-Again Virginity in the Mahabharata
www.freethoughtnation.com...

Krishna Crucified?
truthbeknown.com...

Back to Zeitgeist:

tinfoilman,

Which specific video and what time does it discuss Justin Martyr? I've seen it before but need more specifics. The argument they put forth is a typical Christian apologist argument.

I don't see that Zeitgeist took what Justin Martyr said out of context. You can simply read his entire first apology and see that.


edit on 17-2-2011 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by GoldenKnight
 


Also, some more info is that Vyasa's mother was Satyavati.

And I quote from Satyavati's page
"As a young woman, Satyavati met the wandering rishi (sage) Parashara, her premarital coitus with whom resulted in the birth of Vyasa. The sage also blessed her to musk-fragrant, earning her names like Yojanagandha and Gandhavati."

So as we see, Vyasa was not a virgin birth, but was concieved when Vyasa's mother engaged in premaritial sex with a rishi (composers of Vedic hymns) quoted from the page for Rishi.

So as we see, Vyasa was not a virgin birth either.
edit on 17-2-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


Exactly.... I was an atheist a long long time ago... Since then I've experienced things that made me a believer, although more universalist in nature.. It's one's own trip... But there is a lot of juice in them engines of creation...



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