Mother shot twice with a Taser after she was arrested for leaving baby in car to go to tanning salon

Originally posted by schuyler
She wasn't tasered "just because." She ATTACKED a police officer and resisted arrest. If I were attacked by a screaming banshee I'd defend myself, too.

So how come that police in the UK can successfully subdue and apprehend a suspect without the need for a weapon ?

Unless this woman was some black-belt in karate, then I find it highly implausible that she couldn't have been restrained without the use of a taser.

Interesting situation but the question still boils down to this?

Are we going to start tasering and beating or inflicting physical pain on people for being stupid and irresponsible.

Will this make them less stupid and irresponsible?

Now while many will disagree with me in this particular situation…

Step 1, call fire and rescue and have the baby removed from the car, step 2, call social services and have the baby immediately removed from the car, step 3, wait for the mother to return and attempt to apprehend her peacefully, step 4, make the mother actually attend parenting classes, and prove to a social worker they have seen the error of their ways and can be entrusted with the responsible care of a child.

If they resist arrest, well they aren’t going out to rob a bank so let them walk, because if they want their child back now in the custody of Children Services they are going to have to submit to the process of authority sooner or later.

This really is a situation as to whether we are going to condone corporal punishment of citizens for stupidity and bad judgment.

If we as a society are against corporal punishment of children as a barbaric way to teach a young and impressionable mind that is capable of learning a lesson through it, well it sure is not going to work out any better on an old and close mind not capable of learning a lesson through it.

So really all people are arguing here for is a more sadistic and not a more progressive society.

Sure looking at it that way will deny you the feel good moment of superiority and presumed better judgment and character you imagine you have while advocating the physical torture and punishment of others, but stupid often is as stupid often does.

Hammered? Heck, I'd like to buy you a house! I couldn't agree more. The sad truth is, eventually people like this do get their kids back after they attend court mandated "classes". I can speak with some experience with this issue as we adopted two children into out home that were taken from parents that had no business having kids in the first place. Hopefully this woman gets the maximum sentence.

Tasers: If she was such a serious threat to the cops that they had to taze her, fine. If she could have been properly restrained, without damage to her or the cops, that should have been the first course of action.

With regards to leaving the baby: Mom should be prosecuted, jailed and during/after release be required to complete mandatory parenting courses, as well as ongoing supervision for undetermined amount of time.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

This really is a situation as to whether we are going to condone corporal punishment of citizens for stupidity and bad judgment.

If we as a society are against corporal punishment of children as a barbaric way to teach a young and impressionable mind that is capable of learning a lesson through it, well it sure is not going to work out any better on an old and close mind not capable of learning a lesson through it.

I am a fan of corporal punishment of children, and I think the behavior of children these days supports the value corporal punishment. Ever since we started discouraging corporal punishment, kids have started behaving worse and worse. I don't see it as "barbaric" at all; I see it as a natural consequence. If my kid reaches for a hot stove, and I smack his hand hard enough to sting and scare him, then he got the natural consequence without the injury of a burn. That is certainly not barbaric, it is actually kind. A quick smack is better than a lasting burn scar.

As for the rest of your post, I am also a fan of battlefield torture. I know it sounds barbaric and won't be popular, so let me explain a little. I am not a fan of the things we did in Abu Ghraib or Gitmo, but if an enemy combatant has real-time battlefield information that can be used immediately, then we need that information by whatever means are necessary. It is a life and death situation that requires drastic measures. I do not condone torturing that same suspect the next day, week, or month, only in the heat of battle. I could say the same thing about a U.S. citizen suspected of kidnapping. If there is overwhelming proof (often their own confession) that they have the information, and someone's life is at stake, then I say get the information at all costs.
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Now, I will soften up and say that your suggestions are actually far better advice than mine, LOL! Call the FD, call Social Services, hang around and make sure the baby is ok until someone shows up. No need for a violent encounter in the OP circumstance. Also, no need to accost or arrest the woman once the baby is safe. Very good suggestions!

Originally posted by undo

we don't know if the temp outside was hot, cold or mild.

Actually we do.

It was mild.

Week of February 13 in St Pete:

classic.wunderground.com...

Max temp 66
Min temp 55
Zero precipitation
average 5 mph wind.

Bright sun shiny day. Light breeze, happy baby conditions on Florida's west coast.

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Now, I will soften up and say that your suggestions are actually far better advice than mine, LOL! Call the FD, call Social Services, hang around and make sure the baby is ok until someone shows up. No need for a violent encounter in the OP circumstance. Also, no need to accost or arrest the woman once the baby is safe. Very good suggestions!

I'm glad to see we are eye-to-eye on there having been "better" alternative action.

Cheers for the power of collaborative discussion.

Sri Oracle

also something people are still tending to ignore is, they took her baby away IN FRONT OF HER. now if she was

1) stressed from raising the baby herself without a husband or support system to help her when she needed a break,

2) having post partum blues (some women have been known to go bonkers and kill people when they have undiagnosed/untreated post partum blues),

3) was recovering from the death of her lover (was he her lover or husband? and was he the father of the baby?) just a few weeks before,

4) had any number of extenuiating circumstances related to her own upbringing,

5) was herself a neglected person suffering from lack of concern over her well being,

from the sounds of it, she's been acting out for awhile. i don't think this means she would look better in prison clothes or a coffin. i think it means she would look better if she had someone who cared enough about her to get her into mental health care, including classes on child care.

expecting a woman on the edge to not become physical when you're taking her baby away in front of her, is like expecting a man on the edge to not become physical if he saw a police officer tasering his 19 year old daughter in front of him.

let's think like humans, okay?

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


just an oposing point of view, i grew up being left in the car, call that sick or sad...that's just what my parents did, idk maybe in the 80's that was ok? it was Canada idk if that makes any diffrence? who knows. i turned out fine tho

reply to post by undo


Logic and rationale go out the window when somebody perceives a close family member to be in danger.

In this case, it is completely understandable that she flipped out when she saw her child being taken away.

That doesn't necessarily exonerate her of any wrong-doing in how she conducted herself, but it should be taken into consideration before people become too judgmental about her.


It looks like she may be a bit messed up, and even so I am critical of what she has done, my overwhelming feeling towards her is one of sympathy.

I just wish that our imperfect society wouldn't be so capable of throwing up these unhappy and unfortunate people.

double post

reply to post by Sri Oracle


they should probably add a section in their police training manual about how to handle women with babies. if there appears to be a case of neglect involved, call the ambulance and have the person diagnosed by mental health before anything else transpires. i don't think they handle derangement, psychoses, and other mental health issues correctly. they are too accustomed to thinking mental illness = criminal, and that's like saying your broken wrist = you are a criminal.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


yeah, i don't think enough is known in society, about what happens to women during and after childbirth. accurate and compassionate knowledge should be available for dealing with women who are in child bearing age group. the hormones of women of child bearing age, are wack and can lead to all manner of out of character behaviors. punching it in the head, or zapping it with cattle prod, is not going to change hormones. it's ridiculous to assume it will and inhumane to demand the person somehow diagnose and solve their own problems at 19 years of age. when you're in the midst of it, you have no idea you're going thru it unless you've had enough time and knowledge to recognize it. and frankly, most 19 year olds are not going to be thinking that problem is with THEM. they are going to blame the police officers.

since we can't blame the police officers, as they aren't aware of it any more than the teenagers are, it's up to the medical profession to request this data be available to police and society and that appropriate steps are taken, to fix the real problem. i honestly don't blame the police. i don't think they have enough synthesis with mental health experts.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Good suggestions, ProTrav.

I would only add this. Tazering should be only used to control those who strike out at cops and will not submit to arrest. A tazer should NEVER be used as punishment by cops. Punishment should only be administered by the courts and/or jury.

The woman was obviously wrong in what she did. However, if you allow cops to punish her what is to stop the cops from punishing you when you fail to stop or speed or jaywalk?

reply to post by romanmel


she did strike out, that's what we're discussing. they took her baby and she resisted that idea with physical force.
then they zapped her.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by romanmel

 

she did strike out, that's what we're discussing. they took her baby and she resisted that idea with physical force.
then they zapped her.

If it is proven that the woman did attack the cop then they would be justified in using a taser. However what I said still stands. Tasing should not be used by cops as a punishment. It has been in the past in many instances. Cops should be automatically reviewed everytime they use these devices to assure that these sometimes lethal weapons are not being misused.

I used to work in a casino and security driving around would find babies left in cars all the time. Well not all the time but plenty of times. Some really messed up people who would leave their kids in a car to gamble or tan. I remember one lady screaming as they drug her off how it wasn't her fault cause there should have been a daycare at the casino. Always somebody else's fault.

I also remember being left in the car many times by my folks back in the day but the difference was I was old enough go roll down the window or get out if need be. A baby just sits there and cooks away. Depending on the DHS in Florida she will most likely get her kid back unless she doesn't want it to begin with.

And if she wouldn't have fought with the po po she wouldn't have gotten zapped either. Plain and simple.

I heard about a similar case...it involved a couple called the McCanns...just a shame they were not tasered.

I bet this post was to gain outrage at tazers yet the common reply is the stupid mother. There's always the real story behind the media story (ie the truth of the matter)

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
I used to work in a casino and security driving around would find babies left in cars all the time. Well not all the time but plenty of times. Some really messed up people who would leave their kids in a car to gamble or tan. I remember one lady screaming as they drug her off how it wasn't her fault cause there should have been a daycare at the casino. Always somebody else's fault.

I also remember being left in the car many times by my folks back in the day but the difference was I was old enough go roll down the window or get out if need be. A baby just sits there and cooks away. Depending on the DHS in Florida she will most likely get her kid back unless she doesn't want it to begin with.

And if she wouldn't have fought with the po po she wouldn't have gotten zapped either. Plain and simple.

as a preventative measure, yes, but the temps were not hot and hadn't been for quite some time. they were actually cold, which is why she left the car running with the heat on. she probably had the windows rolled up too, to keep the heat from escaping. the problem i have with idling cars with windows rolled up, is carbon monoxide. the baby wasn't in danger of being over heated, although, if the doors weren't locked, the opportunity for the car to be stolen with baby in tow, was there. but if the doors were also locked, the next question is, whether or not it's safe to leave ANYONE in an idling car with the windows rolled up.