White House reiterates demand that Iran allow protests

Well, other than the obvious we need to stay out of it thing, just another thought. Obama appears so weak on the world stage that I don't really think anyone over there gives a damn what he says. It's not like anyone is afrid of him or a response from him. One thing President Bush had going for him was intolerance and the will to do something, and other countries considered that. Not saying it was right, but let's face it, Obama can't really tell any country to do something, and appear serious.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Its rather odd (or not) that we didnt say "boo" when the folks in Iran demanded what essentially was the same thing in Egypt. You would think that "freedom is freedom" wouldnt you?

Obviously not to our elected officials.

The folks in Iran (regardless of who's behind the recent depostion) supporting Egypt will be seen as a focal point of a new "rebellion". Why are we NOW saying anything? Will this turn into a new situation similiar to what we did to the Kurds?

"Sure, go fight Sadam! We got your six!" Yeah. That worked well. We never dropped a single Hind that attacked these people.

I'm only in my forties. I've been "turned on" since Ruby Ridge. There are days I really wish I'd never seen the
"red pill". But as Conan Doyle said " a mind once expanded never returns to its original size".

Our country (as much as I love it) isnt living up to it's potential any longer. Those who should be supported arent and those who shouldnt be are.

I see Iran as a perpetual "bogey man" to keep the military complex fed and the populace controled.

I would love to see Iran returned to the Chaldeans as it should be. They were never supposed to be muslim. They were Zorastrians, Chaldean Christians, and a residual of other old religions. I do believe they are good people with bad leadership.

It seems that we in the US are getting to that point as well. I have one hope. George Washingtons Prophecy. We were built on sturdy timber. We can take a helluva beating and still return strong.

www.civil-liberties.com...

Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

Its rather odd (or not) that we didnt say "boo" when the folks in Iran demanded what essentially was the same thing in Egypt. You would think that "freedom is freedom" wouldnt you?

Yes and no. Although both Egyptians and Iranians both essentially seek the same freedoms, the circumstances are very different. The Iranian people are very resentful towards the US and Brittan for years of interference in their country. In fact, many are aware that Iran's last democratically elected leader, Mossadegh, was ousted in a coup set up by the CIA in 1953. Facts such as this make Iranians very disinterested in foreign interference. In fact, one of the most common propaganda's used by the regime is to blame the west for any form of uprising. Therefor, it might be a better idea for the US not to involve itself or make any bold statements.

reply to post by endlessknowledge


That may be true for a certain percentage of the older generation of Iran. Mostly those who are now in-charge. Considering that most of the ones who now rule Iran are those very same revolutionaries from 1979...

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad 1979

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c87dfbc4974a.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9f6d9a1dbad5.jpg[/atsimg]

The stereotyping of all Iranians as being resentful towards the US/West isn't a fair assessment nor accurate and doesn't really represent the entire spectrum of Iranian society or culture. The younger generation there are finding themselves having less and less in common with the older revolutionaries who are now their masters and more in common with the West/Outside world. The world has become much smaller with the Interwebs, Texting and tweats they can see whats been transpiring outside of Iran.


IMHO it's more of a case of the Masters wanting to hold on to power more than a entire country resenting the west.

reply to post by SLAYER69


So how do you explain the young people in the United States who don't trust and or resent the U.S. Government?

And would it be acceptable for the Chinese and Russian Intelligence Agencies to fund groups within the United States who would like to change the Government?

Would you welcome Chinese, Russian and Iranian leaders being critical of American authorities for attacking peaceful protestors on the University of Pittsburgh Campus during the G-20?

What about third world non-aligned nations who suspect we have Weapons of Mass Destruction in the United States, and they feel threatened by them?

Should they be seen as credible for wanting to see 'regime change' here?

Now while you are thinking of how not to directly answer these questions here is another great one for you...
do you really see yourself having a greater chance of changing what's wrong in Iran than you see yourself as having a chance to change what's wrong here in the United States?

You have spent a lot of time agitating on these boards for hardline support of anti-government forces in Iran, do you really imagine that's done more than simply divide the American populace and distracted it from focusing on it's own problems?

Originally posted by SLAYER69

The stereotyping of all Iranians as being resentful towards the US/West isn't a fair assessment nor accurate and doesn't really represent the entire spectrum of Iranian society or culture.

Well, stereotyping a nation of over 70 million people is never a good idea, so I guess I should have said 'some or many Iranians'. However, let get something clear...I said "Facts such as this make Iranians very disinterested in foreign interference". There is a big difference between being resentful towards US interference and being resentful to towards the US. In fact, I would go as far as saying that many Iranian youth actually embrace the western culture and the freedoms involved in it. However, wanting the US to come and save them is a different thing. You might personally hate it if Iranian regime was interfering with US policies, however, that should not mean that you resent all of Iran or its people. At least I hope.

The Iranian population is generally very informed and aware of international affairs and they want to be saves but not by having another puppet leader. At least that is the sense I get from talking to many people from there but the sample size might be a bit small so take it for what it's worth.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I am gonna field the why so many American students distrust their government. Could it be that most college age kids distrust authority in the first place? Or that American colleges themselves promote anti-establishment feelings? Using kids who think they know things is a poor rationale, and yes the same can be said about the kids in Iran. The 18-24 crowd is at a disadvantage. To young to understand completely and not old enough to have lived life to get the nuances. Sorry no black or white! The kids are not life-wise. Heck quite a few older folks have chosen the head in the sand approach.

Clashes reported in Iran protests
Pro-reformist marches under way in Tehran despite a heavy security presence and police crackdown.
english.aljazeera.net...

Iran police arrest dozens of protesters: opposition
www.chicagotribune.com...

IRAN: Videos show heavy security deployment in Tehran on day of protests
latimesblogs.latimes.com...

IRAN: Protesters fill streets of Tehran by the thousands
latimesblogs.latimes.com...

YouTube Documents Iranian Protests Via Smuggled Footage [VIDEO]
mashable.com...

www.radiofarda.com...

www.youtube.com...=95



Anti-government protests spread to Iran
www.washingtonpost.com...

reply to post by SLAYER69



I find it interesting that you reply to a statement of mine in which I mention American interference or involvement about three times in one paragraph and yet, you make a bunch of generic statements that have nothing to do with American INTERFERENCE. Why would you say that is? If you ask me, this seems like a bit of a spin job to push forward an agenda but I hope to be wrong. So anyway, can you tell me what you actually think the US should do when it comes to Iran and the protesters???

reply to post by endlessknowledge

As Slayer pointed out earlier, the popular belief of members on ATS is that since the CIA is funding the movement in Iran, then there must be no real uprising. This is a perfect example of knowing a fraction of the truth and running with it. I'm not denying the fact that the US has spent millions to try to remove the regime. However, that does not mean that all those who are protesting are tricked into doing so. Even worse is the preposterous claim that some of the protest pics were fabricated.

That is a good point, when certain sites and posters make something seem what it is not, who suffers from it?

The people.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

So how do you explain the young people in the United States who don't trust and or resent the U.S. Government?

They do not need to be explained. They are what they are. They get their message out through various means. You are aware of their stance and are free to comment on as well as compliment them freely are you not? Case in point this reply....

And would it be acceptable for the Chinese and Russian Intelligence Agencies to fund groups within the United States who would like to change the Government?

They are also free to try so if they wish.. Have they? Simply stating ones opinion doesn't mean those that listen Have to react.

If they choose to react that is their business....

Would you welcome Chinese, Russian and Iranian leaders being critical of American authorities for attacking peaceful protestors on the University of Pittsburgh Campus during the G-20?

Yes...

What about third world non-aligned nations who suspect we have Weapons of Mass Destruction in the United States, and they feel threatened by them?
Should they be seen as credible for wanting to see 'regime change' here?

What "Suspicion of Weapons of Mass Destruction" do they have about the US having Nukes. I think that cat is out of the bag. As a matter of fact we have our active nuclear weapons on public record for all to see. There isn't a conspiracy with regards to our Nuclear stockpile. As far as non-aligned nations that's their business with regards to their stance and opinions. If you haven't noticed they have been receiving plenty of air time over the past few years to press their varying points of view.

We here at ATS and other Interweb locations have been freely for years debating and discussing their views.

So what of it?

Now while you are thinking of how not to directly answer these questions here is another great one for you...
do you really see yourself having a greater chance of changing what's wrong in Iran than you see yourself as having a chance to change what's wrong here in the United States?

I am not attempting to change anything in Iran other than pointing out the Hypocrisy that is demonstrated here at ATS. This is a free site in which to express ones point of view. I expressed mine. You have expressed yours. This is how it's done. I hope you will not take it personally that your views aren't universally accepted as all there is...

That would be tragic...

Changing things here in the US you say. I dunno, I Vote, Work and Pay taxes. I express my views and opinions in person to those who will listen as well as anomalously online for the masses to read and digest just as you...and some agree and others disagree. Unlike some, I accept the fact that others will disagree with my views and stance and not take them as a personal attack or a conspiracy [that there must be an agenda as to why would some disagree with such a well thought out reply?] As some here obviously do....

Because it takes all types of people to make the world go round. I cannot afford to live in a fantasy world where everybody should agree with my views, stance and or opinion because if they don't AGAIN it's obviously a Conspiracy

They post theirs I post mine.

You have spent a lot of time agitating on these boards for hardline support of anti-government forces in Iran, do you really imagine that's done more than simply divide the American populace and distracted it from focusing on it's own problems?

You see it as agitation and a hard line stance...
I posted my opinion. Some find it refreshing and educational. Sorry if that agitates you. I'm glad it does. It proves that I'm being effective. Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how life is.

DEAL with it!

Originally posted by endlessknowledge
So anyway, can you tell me what you actually think the US should do when it comes to Iran and the protesters???

I believe I've answered that question on the first page..
Maybe you missed or simply overlooked it...

Originally posted by SLAYER69
S & F

As always DD.

I think we should mind our own business and stay the hell out of it just like we stayed out of it over in Egypt. Having said that, Now let's discuss the hypocrisy here at ATS...

Iran Live Blog: 25 Bahman / 14 February

www.pbs.org...

Did the white house say they should do like Americans and have their protests down the street and across the bridge in a "free speech zone"?

funny that.

pS
second in aid to Israel eh..
thats hands off...

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective

White House reiterates demand that Iran allow protests

www.rawstory.com

A senior White House official on Saturday criticized Iran's refusal to let opponents of the regime hold a rally in support of Arab uprisings.

"By announcing that they will not allow opposition protests, the Iranian government has declared illegal for Iranians what it claimed was noble for Egyptians," National Security Advisor Tom Donilon said in a statement.

"We call on the government of Iran to allow the Iranian people the universal right to peacefully assemble, demonstrate and communicate that's being exercised in Cairo," he added.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Hypocrisy or selective support of western ideals? There is always a fine line when it
comes to politics. I for one always support the peoples will to freely assemble and the
right to freedom of speech no matter what Country or form of government a country has.
All forms of government derive their power from their people, whether they acknowledge
that or not. It's better to listen to what the people have to say and want than to end up getting
booted out of office for not listening eh?

No one seems to wonder .....

Why is the US interested in a rebellion in Iran NOW? What has changed? Why are we so head up about promoting the Iranians?

Dont get me wrong, IF everything was as I am being told ( spontaneous revolts ), it would be great.

There is so much more going on with this stuff. I feel the "normal guy on the street" is going to get shafted! Between the commies (code pink et al), and the "chop your head off muzzies" (muslim brotherhood et al), What chance do these people have with the power vacuum that WILL occur?

I'm not even getting on what western govts are doing for what ever reasons?

I am also tired of the mantra of "CHANGE". Change from what TO WHAT? Where are they going? Who will be leading them? Have any of you seen any REAL people stepping forward to say "I have the peoples mandate"

I dont mean "president barry" either.

Their is NO ONE standing up to lead!

Revolutions have a root and a leader. there is ALWAYS the person that is the "trailblazer", the "standard bearer" that shouts FOLLOW ME TO GLORY OR DEATH!

We arent seeing this person (or persons). They do exist though. And the "people" will not like them.

this is not what it seems people. Its smoke and mirrors.

When (not if) this happens here in the states (I smell it), what will we have?
We have all of these people from communists to patriots saying we need a revolution. Fine. Lets do it.
Who will lead it? Ron Paul? Nah. Cant get enough popular support in my opinion and he'd have a bullet in his head if he tried. I do like him though.

What kind of government would we have?

we are not the same caliber of people that existed in 1776. We would have every hairbrained idiot trying to put god knows what into the "new" constitution. I personally think the constitution excellent as is. Just dump 90% of everything post 1860's. Black and Womens rights should not be bothered as I believe the constitution grants these defacto.

There will be democracy. And those under it shall be destroyed by the same.

Be careful what you ask for be it for yourself or your kinsman. you will likely get something different.
A genie in a bottle can be a curse.

HOLY CRAP!

AM I A THREAD KILLER?

Democratic reform protests in Iran is like babysitting another persons baby.

They are cute, fun and acceptable when it belongs to somone else. Regardless of how hideous / pain in the ass they are, its easy to say awww how cute and go on your way knowing you wont have to see it again.

Like the Egyptian protests from the Iranian perspective... In this case I think the little bundle of joy was dropped on the Iranians doorsteps.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Hypocriticy in hypocrits and the hypocrites who hypocritically criticize them is indifferent. But do not ignore the fact that Iran is not allowing it. At the same time, reinforce his own hypocritical statements.

The chain gang blame game is coming to an end. Keep up the fight.