Terrorism! is it Real?

Firstly, allow me to say i in no way wish to disprespect anyone or the loss of anyones life to date in the ongoing
"War on Terror".
However, there have been considerable amount of violent acts committed over the intervening time since the USSR collapsed suddenly one day.
The threat of CYBER WARFARE against our goverments security and intelligence services has been underscored in the media,of late.
Discussing this on another thread,it occured to me that a reat deal of damage could be caused, in many segments of society through acts of CYBER WARFARE.
SUXTNET, a cyber weapon of awesome capability to penetrate Seimens industrial programs, and destroy delcate centrifuges engaged in refining uranium,recently arose in Irans nuclear plants.
This worm destroyed, it is rumoured, about 20% of the entire centrifuges.
It infected and penetrated other computers and buried itself throuout the systems connected to the plants.
As of this writing, i believe it is still cropping up over there, in altered versions of itself, having eveolved over time into a different form of itself, though still able to operate centirfiges irratically till they break down, while avoiding detection by instrumentation.
The complexities, and the developement of such an awesome weapon, take the resources, and brain power, of a national effort at least.

The Chinese are notoriously grabbing secret and sensitive scientific and industrial information through cyber spying on a grand scale.
The news is that we are sitting ducks for all kinds of this cyber mischief, and ill prepared for such incursions.
What has all this to do with TERRORISM?
Tha answer should be obvious but it is somewhat obscurred by the way it is reached.
Firstly, the agreement is certain that we could suffer untold disruption, as well as damage to all kinds of infrstructure,and LOSS OF LIFE if certain systems were compromised by deliberate intent.
(If the instruments of a nuclear plant were reset to temperatures beynd safe operating ranges, at the same time they are recalibrated to under read their true temps while holding the alarms system at bay...welll...a few hours of that, and you know it would not be good.)
There are, literally hundreds of thousands of opportunitis for cyber attacks within the whole computer networks.
Entry itno SCADA would avail the potential terrorist a plethora of methods to make the system go haywire.
Granting this unique and golden opportunity to bring the satan to its knees, and with the immense talent and resources at hand in the Islamic world, why havent they struck repeatedly and often at the beating computer heart of all our systems?
My contention is thus...
There aint any terrorists.
Not by the standards we have been told exist.
The terrorists that have been succeessful seem many times to have been mysteriously assisted through different security breaches, and bumbling.
Even outight collusion by intelligence orgs to help the terrorists as in the first world trade center bombing.
7/7.9/11, The Bali bombing,all have exibited evidence fo intelligence agency involvements in some fashion or other.
All these terrorist acts have been horrendously devastating to the victims and survivors alike, as well as the first reponders and others involved directly.To the rest of us who watched them unfold in horror, on CNN and the like, they equally have had serious psychological consequences.
They are obvious unprompted mental pictures and emotions which are both angry and hate filled towards the perpetrators etc.
Yet, in all those terrible events, there was hardly a disruption of apreciable nature in the supply of goods and services, or the continuity of the economy and the basic cash generating capability of society.
Behind it all the chance for an enterprising terr to maim kill and destroy large sections of the society here in the west goes begging foe perpetrators.And this is supposedly omething one can do from the safety and warmth of a back booth in an iternet cafe somewhere annonymous anywhere in the world!
The middle eastern peoples are far fom internet stupid.....many distinguished computer scentists and intellectuals come from the middle east.
Persia, is the cradle of much of our science, and math.
The whole war on terror, seems kinda phoney, knowing that your enemies have not bothered to even pick up this devastating tool for our destruction, let alone use it.
It is getting more plain to me every day, that all terrorism is a product of some Goverments efforts to accomplish
foriegn or domestic policy, foment mementum or forestall the demands of sane minds for explanations to their machinations.
There is a pattern of the murder of high level goverment consultants or scentists when they loose their agreeability. or find some urgent problem the goverment would like burried.
Recently a retired US col. was so killed.
The problem he was so assidously trying to bring to goverment attention?
This cyber vulnerability......
It is obvious to me (though id entertain argument for the contrary) that we are being show stage managed terroism to justify other activity.
That the terrorists if they were real, would have already struck us many vital blows in the most vulnerable areas, rather than blwing up a few puny airliners on TV.
Maximum trauma seems to be the constant aim, but maximum damage is avoided.
Why?
Because the terrorists are controlled by the same guys who run the boardrooms and corporations.
They dont want the profits to stop.Just make the people amenable to their plans.....

Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

If "terrorism" existed as is speculated, there would be;

-'Grenades tossed in shopping malls'

-'Random/coordinated attacks likely involving machine guns/explosives on any/all public 'western' events

-Many more airplanes hi-jacked (not ones that just take out the dirty-financial-records at the pentagon and the well insurred and wired WTCs)

-More islamic fundamentalists other than "Osama Bin Laden" (whom in all likelyhood either works for the U.S in one way or another or is a mere puppet in their game) appearing on 'al-jazeera' etc. threatening the U.S

-Schools would be targets, sports events, shopping malls (as mentioned), even fast food...

-If terrorists want so badly to kill people who ride planes, why not just strap yourself with some explosives and detonate IN THE AIRPORT where there are hundreds more innocent westerners' ?

BOTTOM LINE : TERRORISM = NEW PROPAGANDA CATCH PHRASE AND LABEL DESIGNED & MANUFACTURED TO CAUSE FEAR AND OPPRESSION OF RIGHTS AS WELL AS A VOTE TO ATTACK / INVADE / PILLIAGE 2-3 + COUNTRIES WHOM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE "ATTACKS".

*911 = Hitler's Reich. headquarters.* (he burned it down to excuse a slaughter)

reply to post by MavRck


Mubarak paying thugs to loot buildings and to create fear among the population is a great example of how government sponsored terrorism is used on the people.

For many of us.The terrorists are sitting in the seats of power throughout this and other countries. Whether that be political, corporate, or financial seats. But for them, we are the terrorists. Because we represent a real danger to their utopian dream of open world domination. So there are plenty of real terrorists. But who they are, is a matter of perspective.

the sad thing is there is terrorist's out there and not who you might think. the same people trained in counter terrorism use this for there own benefits. there is a secret organization of police and military and regular civilians in the us that illegaly use tatics and technological warfare on anyone they want to target. ever sence technology advanced and has no real governing body to protect from there dark side. which makes this a huge problem because of plausible deniability. the gadgets they use and how they use them leaves almost no evidence.

s+f

reply to post by Klassified


Agreed.

Terrorists wear suits and undermine nations so that commerce can continue to flourish.

The UK has been, and still is a target of 'real' terrorism in relation to Northern Ireland. Never in the face of this actual threat was everybody's rights compromised the way they have been discarded by the current regimes in the face of a threat they created.

What is the aim of this international band of terrorists? Who are they? Where are they from? Shouldn't tptb attempt to understand these things? They don't...because they don't care.

The whole thing is a load of bull and I can't believe we fell for it in any numbers. But we did.....en masse.
A great excuse to spend a lost of money on arms. A great excuse to impliment surveyllance. A great employer in crap economies. A great marketing tool for political leaders.... a deadly and cruel game.

Theres a great BBC documentary called the Power of Nightmares about how "Terrorism" is largely imagined by those in power. Easy to find on youtube, more than likely a million threads about it on here.

the word "Terrorism" "Terrorist" is a propaganda tool to instill fear into populations to get them to buy products and services

reply to post by christina-66


Hmmmm, i wonder.

No it's fake. Unfortunately bombs, the war on terror, and dead people are real. Our government and it's agencies manufacture what they tell the public is terrorism. Sadly, most congressman and citizens alike believe it all.

As you say, if it were real there would be more of it. Our government wants to reduce us to human sheep so they can strip us at airports, take away our internet privacy, and monitor all of our business and personal transactions. Power and control.

But, "Terrorism" is real. So says John Elway




Here's the first part of Power of Nightmares. I had never seen before, thanks Johnze.



The rest are here www.youtube.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Considering the UK have been on the receiving end of terrorism for probably longer than most countries.

I'd say yes.

1939

939 January - 1940 February
A sustained campaign of bombing in London, Birmingham and other parts of the country, known as the S-Plan, organized by the IRA

1946

"In 1946, not long after the Second World War was won, Britain was again under threat. Jewish insurgents, who had long been fighting a bloody insurgency campaign against British troops in Palestine, were about to take their war to London. Previously top secret documents reveal that assassination squads were being sent to the capital armed with a hit list. On it were the names of several top government figures. These included Britain’s Foreign Secretary, Earnest Bevin.

thetanjara.blogspot.com...

According to Wikidia we have 53 terrorist attacks on the UK between 1970 - current, with many, many innocent people killed for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Terrorism does exist.

reply to post by christina-66


The MI6 was proven to be in charge of the IRA provisional wing...the most radical group.
The indonesian intelligence service was involved in the Bali bombing directly.
For those who think irish terrorists were irish patriots well maybe and maybe not....

Other than people fighting for their own independance, ie the Tamils et al, there seems to be no graspable structure to these jihadistas.
The monies for terror are supplied by states like Saudi Arabia, Iran,The UK, and US, as well as others.it all depends on whose side you work for, who they are.....
Every terrorist act, seems to bring with it,more stringent laws, and invasions of privacy.Higher defence budgets,
Further creation of police that deal with the different aspects of it.
In reality few of the terror suspects ever get public trials, and the information which has come out at the Massaui trial, seems to implicate major reluctance to get too deeply into the hows and whys. of anything.
lest our own side be implicated too.
When all the evidence for a serious try at major attacks on our country is added up. it apears the terrorists only strike targets which will cause maximum trauma, but little damage to infrastructure.
The picture looks largely hoaxed by goverments.
Or the terrorists dont even have the sense to hire good technical advice even.....
This can only go on so long before people add up the numbers and come up with different answers thaan the goverment hands out.

reply to post by stirling


Your basic premise is really ridiculous just like most of your thread.

Basically you could have summed this thread up in one line; because terrorists are yet to utilise the tactic of cyber terrorism they must therefore not exist. Biggest problem with that statement, it’s not true.

On Oct. 21, 2002, a distributed denial of service (DDOS) attack struck the 13 root servers that provide the primary road-map for all internet communications. Nine servers out of these thirteen were jammed. The problem was taken care of in a short period of time. According to Kevin Coleman (Oct. 10, 2003) the internet being down for just one day could disrupt nearly $6.5 billion worth of transactions. At Worcester, Mass, in 1997, a hacker disabled the computer system of the airport control tower. In the same year a hacker from Sweden jammed the 911 emergency telephone system in the west-central Florida. This indicates that an attack could be launched from anywhere in the world. In 1998 attacks were launched against the NASA, the Navy, and the Department of Defence computer systems. In 2000, someone hacked into Maroochy Shire, Australia waste management control system and released millions of gallons of raw sewage on the town. In Russia In the year 2000, a hacker was able to control the computer system that govern the flow of natural gas through the pipelines. Financial institutions have been subject to daily attacks or attack attempts. They are the most preferable targets for cyber criminals. The Israeli cyber warfare professionals targeted human rights and anti-war activists across the U.S.A in late July and August 2002 disrupting communications, harassing hundreds of computer users, and annoying thousands more.

Cyber Terrorism: the new kind of Terrorism

And also just because they have not yet managed a massive cyber terrorist attack against America does not mean they won’t, in 2008 there was 54,640 cyber attack attempts made against the American department of defence, if you don’t think any of those were of terrorist origin then you are beyond naive.

The premise stands.
These are not proven to be attacks by terrs.
For the nost part i think they are amature hackers.Or they are intelligence ops (industrial/military.)
As for the dept of defense, id say the chinese are the terrorists who attacked.....
As far as i know no know terr group has claimed any real success or attempt to attack anyone via internet or SCADA>
The point i make here is valid.and i am not as naieve as you may imagine either grumpy assh*&^le.
There is no real evidence ive been aware of which has stated attacks via internet by any terr group have even occurred.
GOT a LINK?

reply to post by stirling


I am going to assume that was meant to be a response to my above comment. It was not a very good response but I will grace you with a reply.

Your thread has multiple problems; I was just highlighting the main one that cyber-terrorism has happened in the past. There are however other problems, like how do you define terrorism, because there is no universal definition therefore how do you define cyber terrorism (I work on the UK and American definitions). Then you are assuming that terrorists have the capability to carry out massively devastating cyber-attacks against what are very well defended systems. Further to this you are also making the ridiculous assessment that because you incorrectly claim there has never been an act of cyber-terrorism that terrorism itself does not exist.

Your entire thread is utter crap, the whole thing is founded on your ignorance, you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Out of almost 60,000 cyber-attacks, you don’t think that at least 5% are related to terrorism. That says allot about your intellect

You are wrong to assume that because you have not observed a massive cyber terrorist attack that terrorism does not exist. Just please admit that your wrong.

Terrorism is real. And it's out there. But the thing is, it doesn't exist until it happens. And no one group has the market cornered on it. It's fueled by ideals and by zealots who perceive their ideals to be threatened. You can easily create a terrorist, but you can't really fight one. Also...Terrorism: If you are not terrorized, it doesn't work.

Originally posted by MavRck
If "terrorism" existed as is speculated, there would be;

-'Grenades tossed in shopping malls'

-'Random/coordinated attacks likely involving machine guns/explosives on any/all public 'western' events

-Many more airplanes hi-jacked (not ones that just take out the dirty-financial-records at the pentagon and the well insurred and wired WTCs)

-More islamic fundamentalists other than "Osama Bin Laden" (whom in all likelyhood either works for the U.S in one way or another or is a mere puppet in their game) appearing on 'al-jazeera' etc. threatening the U.S

-Schools would be targets, sports events, shopping malls (as mentioned), even fast food...

-If terrorists want so badly to kill people who ride planes, why not just strap yourself with some explosives and detonate IN THE AIRPORT where there are hundreds more innocent westerners' ?

BOTTOM LINE : TERRORISM = NEW PROPAGANDA CATCH PHRASE AND LABEL DESIGNED & MANUFACTURED TO CAUSE FEAR AND OPPRESSION OF RIGHTS AS WELL AS A VOTE TO ATTACK / INVADE / PILLIAGE 2-3 + COUNTRIES WHOM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE "ATTACKS".

*911 = Hitler's Reich. headquarters.* (he burned it down to excuse a slaughter)

May I remind you of the attack in Mumbai India that would cover your first two points. For point three, planes have been hijacked since the dawn of commercial flights began, Only now security the world over is hightened making it harder, point four is controversial, who says all terroism has to be directed at the U.S.A, there is a whole big world out there & yes there is plenty of different groups other than al queda and to note Al Jazeera you see is not what it used to be. For your point 5 may I point you in the direction of Bali,

yes terrorism and terrorist are real does sit happen every day no, do they plan on striking, you bet.
It might be an other 5 years before we see a 9/11.
Is the TSA DHS, MI5 MI6 CIA NSA doing there job of protecting us?
That has not been proven, ie news of prevent attacks, notice any?
Do they do things to make us think we are in danger to keep the laws in tact after 9/11?
That is still not clear, as for me, i say yes i think they would , that does not mean they do it?
I do find some things that the msm, main stream media, puts out/ reports on odd ie the SUV in NY,USA, and the underwear bomber, or how a EMS can be doing a drill and have the real thing happen UK. How could the above agency's let that slip through ? So either the Terrorist have found a new way to talk to each other, or some one was asleep, or could be just an act by one lone person.
the last i think is not very likely but is a possibility, will we be told when all is said and done, wil it ever end?
So far we have, the west, been lucky. No mass bombing No mass acts of terror, no road side bombs no buildings on a mass scale. just here and there.