Is Homophobia Natural?

reply to post by RestingInPieces


Care to explain yourself?

Your response is pretty vague.

~Keeper

Well the word "natural" can be interpreted in many ways so thats hard to answer.

If you take it down to a primal level I would think that it's counter intuitive for a male of a species to be bothered about another male that is not competing with them for mating / breeding rights to a female.
Most fights in the animal kingdom are over the chance to breed and pass on your genetic material.

OK, I'm coming out of the closet. It's a learned behavior. My father was navy/RCMP. He never said anything when it came to gays but you sure as hell could read his body language. I learned from that. I was homophobic until I experienced life. Met gay people. And yes there are as many different types of gay folk as there are straight folk. Look at the internet. There's some disturbing # out there and it's straight. There's inane as well.

I hope this doesn't come across wrong but that is the difference between "gays" and "fags". You know? Those that have to put it in your face as a political movement? I'm not against any movement that would give rights to people that only want rights that they should have. Slapping someone in the face with a fish(Monty Python reference) is not the way to go imo.

The solution? Educate yourself on homosexuality.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by RestingInPieces

 

Care to explain yourself?

Your response is pretty vague.

~Keeper

Sure.

You said you highly doubt that racism is natural.

Then you said that racism is learned.

Are you saying that learning is not natural?

Originally posted by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by RestingInPieces

 

Care to explain yourself?

Your response is pretty vague.

~Keeper

Sure.

You said you highly doubt that racism is natural.

Then you said that racism is learned.

Are you saying that learning is not natural?

Really?

No, I meant that natural as it inherent, as in with you at birth.

Racism is a learned behaviour that is not natural to humans until it is either taught, or the person is subjected to it.

Racism is a fantasy of power.

~Keeper

Originally posted by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by RestingInPieces

 

Care to explain yourself?

Your response is pretty vague.

~Keeper

Sure.

You said you highly doubt that racism is natural.

Then you said that racism is learned.

Are you saying that learning is not natural?

Was that just a pedantic question or do you suffer from seriously flawed logic?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by lestweforget

 

I highly doubt that it's a natural thing.

For instance, take racism. When you were 5 did you see Doug the black kid as black? No you saw him as Doug.

Racism, Bigotry and all other forms of ridiculous behaviours/beliefs are learned from your environment.

Everybody is born with a clean slate. You are influenced by your environment when it comes to your moral code, beliefs etc..

That's my belief in any case.

~Keeper

Well, you are assuming that 'homophobia' is really a thing, and not just a torturous neologism designed to make it seem as if gays are innocent victims of a shocking, horrible prejudice equal to racism.
Racism is evil - it's judging people on the basis of an unalterable characteristic, and assuming that every person of that race is the same.
"All Gentiles are icy cold, heartless blue eyed blondes" I heard an angry Jewish woman say on Oprah, back in the 1990s. (As a brown haired, green eyed warm hearted Gentile, I nearly choked on my coffee).
"All Maori are unemployed gang members and solo mothers", I hear all the time in NZ, along with "All Asian immigrants are greedy criminals and shonky businessmen and women".
That's racism.
I could go on about sexism, but I won't, or there'll be rapid derailment by men who won't even believe that sexism is a thing.
But homophobia, what is that anyway? Linguistically, it should mean "fear of the same"... That's, to use a Kiwi-ism, "a nonsense". In practice, it's used to mean "bigotry, and prejudice against, or oppression of gay (usually) men".
But all gay men have in common with each other is that they like to - erm...
Contrary to a widely-held belief, there's no scientific proof of a genetic basis for homosexuality. It's a choice, people!

I don't hate homosexuals, or fear them. I am in no position to oppress them, and wouldn't if I could.
But I certainly don't have to like them.
V.

Originally posted by calstorm
I know for myself as a straight woman, I see two guys together and I think, "Aww what a cute couple" I see to females though, especially if they are kissing, and I find it utterly gross. Its a major turn off for me, but unfortunately some guys can't get that through their head. (sorry, mini rant)
Its not that I think its wrong, its just a natural reaction I have.

edit on 27-1-2011 by calstorm because: spelling error and grammar

edit on 27-1-2011 by calstorm because: (no reason given)

Really? As a straight woman, I have to say that my reaction is pretty much the opposite of yours. I don't much like Public Displays of Affection from any combination of people, but when I see two men together, I am sickened! (I can't help imagining other - er activities than snogging, and my eyes water!)
It's as beyond me to imagine two women together as it allegedly was for Queen Victoria (even though that story is apparently a myth) and so I am not grossed out by seeing two women together - rather, I am simply bored.
That may just reflect the fact that books, TV and film concentrate on male gays (one fantasy series by a woman, rather graphically...)
V.

Originally posted by Vicky32
But all gay men have in common with each other is that they like to - erm...

There's one more thing they have in common:

But I certainly don't have to like them.

You don't like them... It's interesting to hear how you twist your prejudice to seem like something different than racism or other prejudices. But when it comes right down to it, you don't like them because they're gay. That's prejudice, whether you admit it or not. You make it out to sound like your dislike of gay people is their responsibility (because of their "choice") and not yours (because of your prejudice). You're the innocent, of course. It's clearly their fault for CHOOSING to be something that you cannot stand.

Originally posted by lestweforget
WARNING! HIGHLY CONTRAVERCIAL CONTENT!!!

I would like to generate discussion on a topic considered taboo in most media.

To be considered a homophobe is totally unacceptable in todays societies outside of some religions anyway. The same can be said for racial bigotry, whilst there are those that espouse that being racist is an inbuilt self defence mechanism, an instinct that goes back to primal existance.

Could homophobia be another natural inbuilt mechanism for the continuation of our species and not just an indoctrinated form of intollerance?

Brave topic, OP. I would ask a better question; is there even such a thing as "homophobia", or is it simply an invented term to label with a bad name all that oppose homosexual behavior? I will put forth that one doesn't have to fear or loath a thing to disagree with it, and that it is perfectly natural to dislike, and disagree with, something that does, as you propose, go against basic survival instincts. I will further propose that there are those who would tear down the moral fabric of society, for various reasons, and who would seek to label as "intolerant", "bigoted", etc, any and all that oppose them.

To be totally on topic, yes, such a thing would be completely natural and normal. Crazy world we live in, eh?

Before anyone goes off on this, note that I don't advocate violence against anyone, or anything like that, and I have, in fact, had friends that were practicing homosexuals. Didn't have to approve of their every action to call them friend.

Originally posted by lestweforget
My personal experience was growing up in a society where gays were not accepted and the fact that they were gay was their decision. Most likely because they were either weak, unathletic, sexually depraved, mentally ill, possessed or just couldnt get a girl.

Throughout my years of lifes lessons my beliefs and attitude toward gay men have changed, i am able to feel comfortable and act natural in their company and to accept them for who they are not what they are, something i considered impossible as a young man.

But i am repulsed at the idea of two men being intimate i cant help but wonder, is this a product of my environment or just a natural thing?

I'm repulsed at the thought of my two elderly neighbours having sex. It doesn't mean I should treat them any different.

I dont think homophobia is natural, it seems most homophobia is pushed out by religion.
If a religious order is seeking to attract and keep members, it will need to use fear as a tactic. Wrath be upon you and so on.
They seek to target a minority who do no harm to society in any way.

Homosexuality to me seems like a normal, natural part of the human mix.

To give you an example, looking at it in a different way to the population control theory.

Ok, we live in the modern world, where we don't need to hunt for food etc.
Most of our history as a species we have had to.
Now imagine a tribe, the straight men go out hunting, leaving the women and children alone in camp unprotected.
They could leave a few straight men behind, yet I'm sure many of those hunters will have doubts and worries about their wives or other halves being alone for the days and nights they are away.

Now, having a gay man or men there, will work out great. he has the strength of the male so can protect, yet doesn't take interest in the females.

Homophobia is an emotional illness, in my opinion. It should be in the psychiatric DS-Manual. But it isnt. Why not? Maybe because people would prefer hating homophobes (hating the haters - thats bright, isnt it?) than allowing for some treatment.

reply to post by Skyfloating




How about other forms of prejudice?

Racism, Sexism, Anti-Semitism...xenophobia... are all these "illnesses" that need treating too?

I actually witnessed how someone became a homophobe over a 10-year span. There would be family visits. Back when he was a 20 year old he would crack jokes about homosexuals. Nobody minded. It all seemed light-hearted.

5 years later the jokes had turned into political rants against homosexuals. I attributed it to him being unemployed since years and his life going downhill overall. By this time I am no longer laughing with him when he talks about homosexuals. Im concerned and openly tell his relatives so. For this they kick me out of their house.

Another 5 years later he still has not found any employment. Instead he is currently in jail for violent assault. Guess who the victim was? A homosexual.

From this experience it sure looked like an emotional problem.

reply to post by blupblup


Yes, I consider those mental illnesses too. Not in the sense of having to jail someone or carry them off to a mental ward. But in the sense of seeing it as an emotional issue that someone could look up in the internet and - if he chooses - get professional attention for.

reply to post by Skyfloating


It sounds like he's attacking and lashing out at what he fears. You can't be afraid of somone who isn't threatening you. So maybe the fear he feels is possibly being found out that he is gay or has gay tendancies.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish


It sounds like he's attacking and lashing out at what he fears. You can't be afraid of somone who isn't threatening you. So maybe the fear he feels is possibly being found out that he is gay or has gay tendancies.

Maybe so. In any case, the more downhill it went for him in society (no work, alcohol), the more fearful in general and also the more homophobic he got.

reply to post by Skyfloating




I certainly see them as issues.... whether they're treatable or not is up for debate.
I'm not saying the behaviour can't be unlearned, but I think it's a pretty complex issue.
I think it is also definitely something that affects the brain, I think they should study it much more... I wonder if there are any differences in brain patterns and so on, would be very interesting to see.

Originally posted by blupblup

I certainly see them as issues.... whether they're treatable or not is up for debate.
I'm not saying the behaviour can't be unlearned, but I think it's a pretty complex issue.
I think it is also definitely something that affects the brain, I think they should study it much more... I wonder if there are any differences in brain patterns and so on, would be very interesting to see.

Yes, it should not be a taboo subject, it should be studied. I know what happens in my body when I get angry. Blood seems to heat up or flow faster. My teeth grit. I look for someone to blame.

Yeah homophobic is a misguided term. I don't think people are scared of gays, I think they just don't approve and thus have little respect for them. If being gay is natural, it is only because in nature a certian percentage of any population turns out to be deviant. Some people have deviant behavior that leads to violence, murder, etc Should we accept that because a certian % of folks are going to turn out that way? As for me, I don't discriminate against gays or anything, but I do think they tend to be afew fries short of a happy meal. That said, almost everyone can be described that way through their various individual shortcomings. I accept gayness but do not approve.

As far as female on female vs. male on male it is easy to understand why one is more accepted. The issue is penetration and exchange of bodily fluids. Female gay sex is much cleaner in most eyes.