Michael Moore Answers Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11

"Bush Lied" is the "Got Milk?" of current politics. Look into the story behind this meme and you will find a lot of other lies, but not necessarily the ones you were expecting.

Or you can just choose to believe it, and let others do your thinking for you.

The truth is that neither majority party in American politics is worthy of trust, but that need not deter their goose-stepping minions from waging the endless debate over whether "Tastes great" is better than "Less filling".

This is a false dichotomy. Don't buy it.

The truth is much more disturbing than the focus-group prolefeed grabbing the headlines. You are best off trusting no one, and suspecting everyone. There is not a political party on earth that cares one whit about you or your opinions. Power is the only currency they trade in.

The challenge facing everyone who would think for themselves is overcoming the sepsis of deception which defines the modern socio-political forum.

Once you can see past the blinders set for you, you can begin to consider the significance of what is really happening, compared to which petty concerns over stolid domestic or foreign policies are irrelevant.

Originally posted by Majic
"Bush Lied" is the "Got Milk?" of current politics.

The day the american take torture and dead innocent children as lightly as "got milk" is the day America has truly died. Yes there is a "bigger hidden truth." but that does not supersede the things that are going on today, yes they may serve as distractions but you can not ignore in good concise the atrocities that have been committed and that will be committed under a man who is still in power. Although when and if the truth comes out (if it comes out) we can only hope it is not as ugly as the world Bush is creating.

There is a very distressing brand of myopia going around that allows its victims to see only those atrocities they want to see, rather than seeing them all.

To imply that the U.S. is the source of all evil is to ally with evil. The U.S. pursues its own interests, but does not line up civilian men, women and children in front of mass graves to be gunned down. Wake up, lest evil devour you utterly.

The only cure for this terrible disease is a skeptical mind and a desire for truth.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

Originally posted by Majic
"Bush Lied" is the "Got Milk?" of current politics.

The day the american take torture and dead innocent children as lightly as "got milk" is the day America has truly died. Yes there is a "bigger hidden truth." but that does not supersede the things that are going on today, yes they may serve as distractions but you can not ignore in good concise the atrocities that have been committed and that will be committed under a man who is still in power. Although when and if the truth comes out (if it comes out) we can only hope it is not as ugly as the world Bush is creating.

The problem with your posts is that you continue to believe in the fallacy that President Bush actually lied about anything. I challenge you to put forth ONE PEICE of evidence to support that claim, and I mean evidence, not opinion. Remember, you can't prove a negative, so this bull about "lied about WMD's" doesn't hack it. Sarin gas found in IED's and artillery shells proves the opposite, and the fact is we just haven't found the main cache yet. Saddam was very adept at playing hide and seek, although with the morons form the UN in charge, a two year old could have done the same thing. And the Nuke thing looks like it's beginning to pan out as well, so that won't string the bean either. Now...how about some proof....REAL proof.....

Man, you're so optimistic, you see things that aren't even there, and believe in them.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
The problem with your posts is that you continue to believe in the fallacy that President Bush actually lied about anything. I challenge you to put forth ONE PEICE of evidence to support that claim, and I mean evidence, not opinion. Remember, you can't prove a negative, so this bull about "lied about WMD's" doesn't hack it. Sarin gas found in IED's and artillery shells proves the opposite, and the fact is we just haven't found the main cache yet. Saddam was very adept at playing hide and seek, although with the morons form the UN in charge, a two year old could have done the same thing. And the Nuke thing looks like it's beginning to pan out as well, so that won't string the bean either. Now...how about some proof....REAL proof.....

well, here's your free be. I don't usually do google searches for people who are more than capable of doing them on their own.

www.house.gov...

www.house.gov...

www.worldnetdaily.com...

www.democracynow.org.../02/13/1549215

dir.salon.com...

democrats.com...

www.bushlied.org...

There are over 57000 results for bush lieing. Here in the US it only takes 12 people to convict, if Bush was tried for lieing there are billions of people who would convict him. BILLIONS! You can go to every one of them and argue that Bush is honest man but in light of not only the facts and given that quite a few people have been the victim of bushes lies trying to tell them they don't know white from black may indicate you are the one with the perspective problem. I think a better question is what hasn't Bush lied about?

[edit on 20-7-2004 by J0HNSmith]

Originally posted by J0HNSmith


well, here's your free be. I don't usually do google searches for people who are more than capable of doing them on their own.

www.house.gov...

www.house.gov...

www.worldnetdaily.com...

www.democracynow.org.../02/13/1549215

dir.salon.com...

democrats.com...

www.bushlied.org...

There are over 57000 results for bush lieing. Here in the US it only takes 12 people to convict, if Bush was tried for lieing there are billions of people who would convict him. BILLIONS! You can go to every one of them and argue that Bush is honest man but in light of not only the facts and given that quite a few people have been the victim of bushes lies trying to tell them they don't know white from black may indicate you are the one with the perspective problem. I think a better question is what hasn't Bush lied about?

[edit on 20-7-2004 by J0HNSmith]

Oh, come ON, man, I said PROOF, not PROPAGANDA!!! Are you Michael Moore-on in drag or what!!!

judiciary_democrats, appropriations_democrats, democracynow.org...HAAAAA!!! Real bastions of journalistic integrity!!! Like the guy who used MM's own statements as positive proof that he was telling the truth in his movies.....

You make yourself look foolish when you quote leftist propaganda sites like these as your "sources". As if the Democrats aren't going to say the President lied in an election year...yeah...right....

No dice, fella...try again, but be SERIOUS this time....




[edit on 20-7-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

The problem is, anything that's not what you want to hear will be propaganda to you. If you spent less time arguing and more time researching, you'd know the truth. You're not interested in the truth, unless it supports your narrow viewpoint. What the hell do you want for proof? An admission of guilt from Bush himself? I seriously doubt that'll ever happen. Pull your head out of Bush's butt, why don't you. He's far from the saint you try to make him out to be.

[edit on 20-7-2004 by Damned]

Ok man, take a look around the world. I'm not here to convince people of the truth who refuse to see it. I think it is a good idea to end a conversation when the other person believes 57000 web, news and other sites are all "making it up." I wonder if you even read all the links I posted. Why not go research the issue yourself and come back with a more informed opinion than "you're all democrats and it's an election year" because just as much if not more of these accusations come from out side the country than inside it.

So I'm done, I'm not going to do you a favor and than be called names when you don't like the results.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith
Ok man, take a look around the world. I'm not here to convince people of the truth who refuse to see it. I think it is a good idea to end a conversation when the other person believes 57000 web, news and other sites are all "making it up." I wonder if you even read all the links I posted. Why not go research the issue yourself and come back with a more informed opinion than "you're all democrats and it's an election year" because just as much if not more of these accusations come from out side the country than inside it.

So I'm done, I'm not going to do you a favor and than be called names when you don't like the results.

Look, if you want to spread lies and gossip and count it as truth, get on a TV talk show with Michael Moore-on. Your links are even more ridiculous than his movies. The number of web hits you get from something is of absolutely no consequence. Example, I just did a Google on "John Smith Lied" and guess how many hits I got?

"Results 1 - 10 of about 147,000 for John Smith lied".

And a couple more for good measure�

"Results 1 - 10 of about 223,000 for Clinton lied"
"Results 1 - 10 of about 131,000 for Michael Moore lied"

Kind of blows your argument out of the water, unless we are to believe, by your own logic, that you are three times the liar President Bush is�

Your argument holds no water; it's like a sieve with 1 inch holes. Your links are leftist propaganda sites...I'm surprised you didn't use Rense.com or MichaelMore.com as one of your "irrefutable sources" as well. How about the National Enquirer or the Weekly World News while you�re at it?

You want to quit, go right ahead. Par for the course when you are proven wrong by REAL logic. You�re done because you�re wrong�nothing else.

Results 1 - 10 of about 315,000 for George W. Bush lied.

... huh.

Originally posted by Ouroboros
Results 1 - 10 of about 315,000 for George W. Bush lied.

... huh.

Nah you can't just type it in open ended like that and expect to find the useful links. You need to use phrases enclosed with " " to get sites that have the actual phrases you're looking for or you'll get a ton of matches with the words not necessarily having anything to do with one another. For instance if you type in "John Smith Lied" you get 4 results, if you type in "bush lied" you get about 58,000 results. But take away the " " and you get hundreds of thousands most of them have nothing to do with what you're looking for.

AR, I'm not answering you because you're being abusive, belligerent, using more conjecture than facts and you're being rude. I like to have straight forward conversations that don't include making abusive and insulting references about the other person. Go read the ATS rules and follow them if you would like to continue this debate in a civilized manor. You may also want to note that if you continue to talk to people the same way as you have in this conversation you may find yourself warned by the admins.

Oh, I know how to use search engines properly, just pointing out in my own way how much of a pointless task it is.

I guess I should've pointed out the fact that you weren't pointing towards sites that had X amount of hits, but the amount of sites that dealt with the subject itself.

*shrugs*

[edit on 20/7/04 by Ouroboros]

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

AR, I'm not answering you because you're being abusive, belligerent, using more conjecture than facts and you're being rude. I like to have straight forward conversations that don't include making abusive and insulting references about the other person. Go read the ATS rules and follow them if you would like to continue this debate in a civilized manor. You may also want to note that if you continue to talk to people the same way as you have in this conversation you may find yourself warned by the admins.

I'm being rude and abusive? Get real...I'm using conjecture? Get a life. Not even close. You're posting outright lies, using sources proven to be absolute bull. You want to cry foul? Do it somewhere else. If you are going to make such asinine comments and back them up with absolute drivel, you are going to be called on the carpet. If you can't live with that, that's your problem. No abuse going on, and if you think so, you need to get a thicker skin...and learn how to post reasonable sources. I just love being threatened....HA!!!


And oh, I love how you are now dictating how searches are to be made...have a little bit of a "God complex" going on there????




[edit on 20-7-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
I'm being rude and abusive? Get real...I'm using conjecture? Get a life. Not even close. You're posting outright lies, using sources proven to be absolute bull. You want to cry foul? Do it somewhere else. If you are going to make such asinine comments and back them up with absolute drivel, you are going to be called on the carpet. If you can't live with that, that's your problem. No abuse going on, and if you think so, you need to get a thicker skin...and learn how to post reasonable sources. I just love being threatened....HA!!!


And oh, I love how you are now dictating how searches are to be made...have a little bit of a "God complex" going on there????
[edit on 20-7-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Ok, again I'm not here to fight or trade insults, if you really don't see the personal insults you've made toward me in this thread I will point them out for you.

Get a life.
Are you Michael Moore-on in drag or what!
You make yourself look foolish

Phrases like those have no place in a productive argument, it is considered flaming and abusive and against the rules of the board.

As for conjecture, these things fit that definition:

You're posting outright lies, using sources proven to be absolute bull.

You�re done because you�re wrong�nothing else.

Sarin gas found in IED's and artillery shells proves the opposite, and the fact is we just haven't found the main cache yet.

The problem with your posts is that you continue to believe in the fallacy that President Bush actually lied about anything

And the Nuke thing looks like it's beginning to pan out as well, so that won't string the bean either

You may want to look up the word conjecture before you say you're "not even close" to using it.

If you think the source www.house.gov... is

leftist propaganda sites like these as your "sources"

Than I feel you are not here to have a conversation or a debate, you are here to use conjecture, flame members who do not adhere to your point of view and be disruptive to people who come to ATS to have debated based in facts without attacking or being attacked because it doesn't' fit the other persons view.

There are quite a few flaws in your arguments and in the way you are presenting your case that it is a

fallacy that President Bush actually lied about anything

You may want to read the:

Terms of service:

You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone

You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. i.e.

Sarin gas found in IED's and artillery shells proves the opposite, and the fact is we just haven't found the main cache yet.

You have broken both those rules, next if you keep it up I will report you.

You cant sit there and tell me the whole movie is false. If it was the Bush people would be sueing the # out of MM.

Yes...and if i were true, Bush would be impeached.It goes both ways

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by J0HNSmith


well, here's your free be. I don't usually do google searches for people who are more than capable of doing them on their own.

www.house.gov...

www.house.gov...

www.worldnetdaily.com...

www.democracynow.org.../02/13/1549215

dir.salon.com...

democrats.com...

www.bushlied.org...

There are over 57000 results for bush lieing. Here in the US it only takes 12 people to convict, if Bush was tried for lieing there are billions of people who would convict him. BILLIONS! You can go to every one of them and argue that Bush is honest man but in light of not only the facts and given that quite a few people have been the victim of bushes lies trying to tell them they don't know white from black may indicate you are the one with the perspective problem. I think a better question is what hasn't Bush lied about?

[edit on 20-7-2004 by J0HNSmith]

[edit on 20-7-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Did you come from Politrix.org? People like you are the ones that kicked me off of their site. Like i asked them before they gave me the boot, Where is proof? Don't come back with "show me proof its not true". Show us proof Bush lied. Not what some moron THINKS like MM. Those are some nice Democrate sites you picked, why not use Bushbashers.com or votekerry.org. I bet they have a neutral opinion. All we ask for is proof. Real proof...not some bs story out of the Washington Times. Show us proof that Bush lied. If you had proof, real proof, Bush would be facing impeachment. It is that simple. If there was something, Bush would be in trouble. Vote Bush 2004

Originally posted by J0HNSmith





Ok, again I'm not here to fight or trade insults, if you really don't see the personal insults you've made toward me in this thread I will point them out for you.

Get a life.
Are you Michael Moore-on in drag or what!
You make yourself look foolish

Phrases like those have no place in a productive argument, it is considered flaming and abusive and against the rules of the board.

Again I say, if you think this is "flaming and abusive", you need to get a thicker skin. The MM comment was because of your radical, apologetic, ridiculous comments, and by posting the loony leftist trash links you do, you ABSOLUTLY make yourself look foolish. Period. I stand by what I said because it is the truth. If you don't want to look foolish, quit posting foolish links.

As for conjecture, these things fit that definition:

you call it conjecture, it is in fact the truth, verifiable by HONEST news sources...here are just a few. Notice they are MAINSTREAM NEWS OUTLETS, not the DNC or radical leftist sites...

www.pittsburghlive.com...

www.globalsecurity.org...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

you see, THAT's how you provide links that are believable....

If you think the source www.house.gov... is

I notice how you left off the REST of the link...
www.house.gov...
and
www.house.gov...
are the ones you quoted. But, according to you, only non-democrats are liars, right? Again, it makes you look foolish.

You may want to read the:

Terms of service:

You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone

You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. i.e.

You have broken both those rules, next if you keep it up I will report you.

Report away, bucko. You are the one calling the kettle black. You STILL have shown NO RELIABLE PROOF to back up your claims. When I pointed that fact out, you started this whining about me "breaking the rules". Please, by all means, report me. The posts speak for themselves. What will you do, report everybody who simply disagrees with your trash and says so, points out the fallacies in your drivel? Have fun, it'll take a long time. It is YOU who has done ALL the threatening...your just P.O.'d that I won't back down to your lies....sorry, try someone else....you impress me not.

Originally posted by AntiPolitrix
Did you come from Politrix.org? People like you are the ones that kicked me off of their site. Like i asked them before they gave me the boot, Where is proof? Don't come back with "show me proof its not true". Show us proof Bush lied. Not what some moron THINKS like MM. Those are some nice Democrate sites you picked, why not use Bushbashers.com or votekerry.org. I bet they have a neutral opinion. All we ask for is proof. Real proof...not some bs story out of the Washington Times. Show us proof that Bush lied. If you had proof, real proof, Bush would be facing impeachment. It is that simple. If there was something, Bush would be in trouble. Vote Bush 2004

No I did not come from politrix.org.
Yes some of the sites I picked are Democrat sites and some of them have conclusive proof that bush is a liar. No I did not find a neutral site because there is no such site. There are plenty of people calling for Bushes impeachment but with the house and senate being a majority republican it would be a futile effort. Politicians care more about pushing their special interests through than what the president lied about. It is never "that" simple, I think that statement was without wisdom. There is more than enough proof to convict bush in a court of law, and he just might be. There are classified memos, white house staff coming out and making allegations, there are people being tortured and healed illegally in conflict with the geneva convention under direct order of the president. This should not in my view be a topic of politics but a topic of humanity and reason. To state Bush lied about nothing and than claim you do not have the burden of evidence is lazy, flawed and makes no sense. If you would like to state that you would have to take every lie that Bush had told and present how it was not really a lie. There has been more than enough evidence presented that you can not blow it all off with out addressing it. If you wish to be more than a voice of denial and wish to address these issues with more than a simple dismissal than start by debunking these 2 sets of lies told by GWB:

Lie #1--They Attacked Us: Iraq Supported Al Qaeda
ies #2 and #3--Imminent Threats: Iraq's Bio-Chem and Nuclear Weapons Programs.
Lie #4--It Will Be Easy: Iraq as a "Cakewalk."
Lie #5--The Moral Justification: Iraq as a Democratic Model.

read them in their entirety here

And than you can address the ones on this page

Ok lets keep this on topic. I do not want to see any more insults on this thread,

Asala