Michael Moore Answers Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11, page 1


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Topic started on 12-7-2004 @ 01:22 AM by donguillermo
Fahrenheit 9/11 Notes + Sources

Read it and weep, Moore critics. The most persuasive criticism of Fahrenheit 9/11, the Fifty-Nine Deceits document, has been blasted into oblivion. I was pretty impressed with Fifty-Nine Deceits, when I first read it, but then I started noticing that many of the so-called deceits were not deceits at all, and that some of the sources, such as Stephen Hayes and Laurie Mylroie, have been thoroughly discredited. Other critical articles, such as those by Christopher Hitchens and Michael Isikoff, have been thoroughly deconstructed. Isikoff, in particular, cannot even get basic facts correct in his two articles. Finally, Fifty-nine Deceits relies heavily on right-wing propaganda sources, such as Weekly Standard and National Review.

The author of Fifty-nine Deceits is certainly industrious, because Moore just released Fahrenheit 9/11 Notes + Sources today, and references to Moore's latest document are already incorporated in Fifty-nine Deceits.

Moore's document does not specifically reference Fifty-nine Deceits, but a quick scan shows that it addresses many of the major criticisms of Fifty-nine Deceits. Unlike Fifty-nine Deceits, Moore's source references are all to respected, well-known news sources.

So you Moore critics need to face reality. While some of Moore's facts can be questioned and debated, he has reliable sources for most everything that has been seriously challenged. You cannot plausibly call him a liar when he has a reliable source to back him up, even if the fact ultimately proves to be false.

You can certainly argue that Moore uses editing, selective use of facts, and juxtaposition of facts to create false and misleading impressions. But please stop calling Michael Moore a liar, at least with respect to Fahrenheit 9/11. If you continue to brand Moore a liar, you are just showing that you have no respect for the truth yourself.

Really, it doesn't matter what the Moore critics do. Fahrenheit 9/11 has already grossed $80 million and been seen by ten million viewers. I predict the final figures will be twice those numbers. Moore has finally gotten the truth about George Bush out to a significant number of people, after the major media in this country have done everything possible to hide the truth about George Bush for the last four years.

As a commenter at Matthew Yglesias' weblog said, Fahrenheit 9/11 is like a missile flying down the exhaust chute of the Death Star. The destruction of the Death Star is certain, the occupants just don't know it yet. The destruction of the Bush Crime Family is certain, the family members and running dogs just don't know it yet.


[edit on 7/12/2004 by d onguillermo]


reply posted on 12-7-2004 @ 05:25 AM by Phoenix
Out of 59 items lets say ten of them do fit your criteria, author biased, news source biased. Does bisa make for a lie or does it make for a harsh truth. What you view and paint with a broad brush as propaganda may only be information that you yourself are naturally biased against yourself.

In your well worded narrative I see not one concrete example cited that proves what you have said is true, MM's information provided in MM's own defence is not what I would call exactly unbiased and without propaganda.

I find it interesting that an ex Clinton administration person such as Laurie Mylroie is under attack as a conservative hack, more than interesting I find it laughable that thats the case.

Much of the information in 59 Deceits also came from centrist to left leaning media sources that you failed to make mention of, how convenient.

There is one outright lie that is not a lie of ommission or simple error in MM's movie that is proven to be otherwise by multiple sourcing and 9/11 commission testimony that is a glaring example making your assertion that no one can call MM a liar wrong.

"Bin Laden family flies when airspace is closed, getting special treatment from Bush relationship"

Even the imdommitable Richard Clarke says "Not True"

d onguillermo, you can hunt and peck all you like but the fact remains if any one of the 59 deceits hold true then MM is a liar is he not? I think the salvation for MM you seek is going to require debunking all 59 deceits, trying to use one or more examples to form a broad paintbrush isn't going to cut it.

MM is the one who called this fiction piece a documentary not anyone else, he stands to be called out for portraying it as all truth when it is not.

Calling this movie a documentary in the first place fits the profile of propaganda much better than what his critics have written to date.

If MM and his supporters would just come out and admit this movie was commentary, editorializing or just a long infomercial then I would'nt have a care about what he says, he's entiteled to his opinion.

It is the portraying of this as truth to many who either will not or can not research the facts as we do that bothers me, but that is afterall the true aim of propaganda in the end.

[edit on 12-7-2004 by Phoenix]


reply posted on 12-7-2004 @ 09:57 AM by donguillermo
Phoenix says

There is one outright lie that is not a lie of ommission or simple error in MM's movie that is proven to be otherwise by multiple sourcing and 9/11 commission testimony that is a glaring example making your assertion that no one can call MM a liar wrong.

"Bin Laden family flies when airspace is closed, getting special treatment from Bush relationship"


ROTLMAO. You are too funny Phoenix. You are attacking Moore's credibility, yet you cannot even get your facts straight. The movie does not say that the Bin Laden family flew when the airspace was closed. You are just repeating one of Isikoff's lies. I find it very teling that Moore's critics have to lie and distort what Moore says in order to show that Moore is a liar. When you put something in quotes, you are implying that you are quoting Moore directly.

Michael Isikoff and Newsweek Magazine Deceive the Public About Fahrenheit 9/11

In the June 28, 2004 issue of Newsweek Magazine, Newsweek writer Michael Isikoff makes completely false and misleading statements about facts and issues contained in Fahrenheit 9/11. Isikoff has also gone on television shows repeating the charges.

Here are some of the falsehoods he is telling, and the truth:

Saudi Flights: Isikoff writes that "The movie claims that in the days after 9/11, when airspace was shut down, the White House approved special charter flights so that prominent Saudis - including members of the bin Laden family - could leave the country. Author Craig Unger appears, claiming that bin Laden family members were never interviewed by the FBI. Not true, according to a recent report from the 9/11 panel."

Isikoff's account of the movie is flatly untrue.

What the movie says is this: "It turns out that the White House approved planes to pick up the bin Ladens and numerous other Saudis. At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country."


You really need to get synchronized with the other Moore critics and find out which lies about Fahrenheit 9/11 have already been debunked.

In case you think Moore is not accurately quoting his own movie, here is the relevant quote from Transcript of Fahrenheit 9/11, Part 1, prepared by a right-wing source.

NARRATOR: It turns out that the White House approved planes to pick up the bin Ladens and numerous other Saudis. At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial plans carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country.

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