Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by Koka

Left Wing Ideal World = Share and Share Alike

Sorry, koka, but according to you, your ideal world, i.e. share and share alike, = COM(M)UNISM!!!

Not in MY country, Comrad!!!!

You and Hillary can go to Havana and live out your left wing fantasies…..

- Good call, I was expecting something like that.

That old adage "Power corrupts" comes to mind, which is the main reason Communism fails, we've all read "Animal Farm", but that other Orwellian classic "1984" (the pitfalls of Communisim), do you not see the US accelerating down that route. Ironic, for such an outspoken, alleged "Democracy".

I note, your lack of denial when it comes to my statement "Right Wing Ideal World = Every Man for Themselves "

Originally posted by Koka



I note, your lack of denial when it comes to my statement "Right Wing Ideal World = Every Man for Themselves "

That was the least of my worries, what with the other preposterous statement you made. The problem is, you vilify capitalism, which is what I expect you mean when you say, "right wing", although not all those who believe in capitalism are what you would call "right wing".

The difference between the left and right is the left wants to give everybody a hand out...the right wants to give them a hand up. Left wing politics depends on those who have nothing as their voting base, and once in office, keeps them there AS their base by continuing the cycle of "hand outs". Keep them poor, and tell them you will make things better for them. Raise the minimum wage beyond what the economy can withstand, causing rampant inflation. They can't afford simple things like a burger at Mickey D's now, so they have to stay on welfare. You've just given him a fish...he'll eat for a day.

Capitalists make sure that business prospers. It creates jobs. People make money. What do they do with it? They invest it. What does that do? Improves the economy. What do you do with those who do not want to work? Make them do so by cutting their benefits off after a certain period of time, except for those who really need it, and force them to train for new jobs. Now you have taught a man to fish. He'll feed himself and his family for a lifetime....No, it’s not cruel, it’s life. Work for what you get, or don’t ask me to hold up your end of the stick.

I prefer to have my tax dollars spent on people who really need assistance, not those who simply don't WANT to work...share and share alike? Bull...get off your butt and get a job....

So, people who vote to the left are lazy and on welfare, and people who vote for the right are hard working honest citizens, who only want to help those less fortunate than themselves. I'm glad we cleared that up, cos' I thought it was alot greyer than that.

Maybe the Right should also add education, health and transport, to their to do list. Hold on, thats no good, the capitalists aren't going to make much money investing in those areas, best just neglect them.

Unemployment figures, in the UK, have fallen dramatically since the Left wing, Labour Party, got into power. So maybe the problem of lazy welfare spongers, is indicative of the state of the US.

I prefer to have my tax dollars spent on people who really need assistance.......

Like the Taliban or Saddam Hussein...? That was money well spent, sorry you're still spending it.

Originally posted by Koka
So, people who vote to the left are lazy and on welfare, and people who vote for the right are hard working honest citizens, who only want to help those less fortunate than themselves.

You see, that's the problem with a lot of people here...they twist others words like a ribbon around a package. Are you related to Michael Moore-on? That is NOT what I said at all. Go back and read the post. I said that the left wing relies on the lower class as it's voting base, using a pessimistic view of the world to make them think they are getting screwed by the right, when the truth is if they didn't have them AS a voting base, they would have no voters. They have to keep them on welfare to keep them as voters. Capitalists want the entire NATION to prosper, as they depend upon it to make money. If people have no money to buy their products, they have no business. It's simple. Perhaps too simple for some to understand. That must be why you twist my words to try to fit your purpose.

Unemployment figures, in the UK, have fallen dramatically since the Left wing, Labour Party, got into power. So maybe the problem of lazy welfare spongers, is indicative of the state of the US.

WHAT!!!??? Hey, who are you trying to fool here? I spent three years in the UK, and still have many, many friends there that I talk to on a daily basis. GB is a socialist nation, and there are a HUGE number of people on the public dole!!! I guess you must be including them as "government workers", eh? That's a great way to keep your jobless rates low..." Ah, yes, I'm a couch cushion tester for the British Government..."


Give me a break....

[size=4]Moderator's note... please keep it civil, folks. [/size]

-- Thanks!

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
What your little graph, put out by the people who make the claims, hmmm...doesn't show is those who are on the dole for "disability". You and I both know what that little scam is, don't we?

And should we get started on the wonderful "Health Care System" in GB? Gee, do those ridiculously high taxes you pay add up to what the real British working man gets in return? I've never waited 3 months to see a doctor in my life!

No, the welfare system isn't an American phenomenon...It's highly abused in your country as well. [edit on 15-7-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

I've never waited 3 months to see a doctor either, in fact the last time I went to see one, was late last year, when I walked into an NHS Clinic in the centre of London and got seen within half an hour.
I have absolutely no problem with paying even more tax, you forget I'm a Socialist, I've seen many improvements in many areas of British Society, relative to when the Tories were in the house. There are many areas which have not changed which require a lot of improvement, but they'll be addressed over time.

Any welfare system will be abused, no more so than by Margaret Thatcher, who sought to close down a multitude of hospitals and schools, in her time, one of which was my own.

Britain has an unspoken philosophy of "Lead by Example", and although not perfect, have made a great many advances in cross-culture understanding and acceptance.

This will be the third thread I ask this on: What is the connection between Osama Bin Laden and his family? It is widely known that he has been disowned. In reading a transcript of the movie, only 2 Bin Ladens are mentioned by name, one is dead, and one is a half brother who, according to google, does not exist, nor to alternate spellings of his name. I see a VERY significant gap in the "facts" of the movie there. Perhaps someone could explain how this does not renforce the unfounded predjudice that "all arabs are terrorists". I certainly beleive it does, to form the only link shown between Osama and Bush, you have to assume that everyone in the Bin Laden family was complicit in the terrorist activities.

Originally posted by PB
This will be the third thread I ask this on:

You are asking it in the wrong thread and forum. Try the terrorism forum.

Originally posted by Koka


I've never waited 3 months to see a doctor either, in fact the last time I went to see one, was late last year, when I walked into an NHS Clinic in the centre of London and got seen within half an hour.
I have absolutely no problem with paying even more tax, you forget I'm a Socialist, I've seen many improvements in many areas of British Society, relative to when the Tories were in the house. There are many areas which have not changed which require a lot of improvement, but they'll be addressed over time.

Any welfare system will be abused, no more so than by Margaret Thatcher, who sought to close down a multitude of hospitals and schools, in her time, one of which was my own.

Britain has an unspoken philosophy of "Lead by Example", and although not perfect, have made a great many advances in cross-culture understanding and acceptance.

Ahhh...a Londoner, and "my hospital", and an admitted socialist. Things are coming into much clearer view.

I'll tell you what...go visit my friend the ship builder in Sunderland, and ask him about his cancer scare where he had to wait two weeks for a chest x-ray, then three months to find out if he was going to die or not. Of course you have no problems at "your hospital", and if you have no problem with paying even higher taxes, that must mean you have the money to pay them....most do not. But I digress....

I'll tell you what...I'll quit knocking your screwed up system, and you do the same for me, as we will never agree. Try making your own system perfect before you cut down another's.....

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
You are asking it in the wrong thread and forum. Try the terrorism forum.

didnt realize asking why moore is wrong wasnt appropriate for the micheal moore forum

Originally posted by PB

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
You are asking it in the wrong thread and forum. Try the terrorism forum.

didnt realize asking why moore is wrong wasnt appropriate for the micheal moore forum

You didn't ask why Moore-on was wrong...read your post. You didn't mention him once. Try phrasing your questions correctly.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
There is nothing to impeach Bush over

Yes, let's make sure that impeachment is reserved for the personal sex lives of Presidents, and does not extend to warmonger Presidents who go to war on forged evidence.

[edit on 17-7-2004 by Otts]

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
[Capitalists make sure that business prospers. It creates jobs. People make money.

And when business prospers, it starts looking for ways to cut jobs so it can make even more money. Like banks that cut operating hours and thus bank teller jobs, replacing them with phone or Internet services (which the customers have to pay for, of course). Unless the businesses just choose to move their plants to the Philippines or to Honduras, where they can get labor cheap, and, oh, avoid those pesky unions. And those towns where there's 50 % unemployment rate because the plant closed down? They're lazy, all of them. Panhandlers who are a nuisance to the true contributors to society... or the Bush campaign.

Now I saw Fahrenheit 9/11 tonight... and you know what, it's true that some of this is exaggeration - for example the idyllic scenes in pre-war Iraq. But I don't agree that if one of the 59 deceits is proved right it makes MM's movie a commentary and not a documentary. Everyone is biased. There have been people who contributed amazingly to science who also thought that women having a smaller brain proved they were less smart, or that meteorites cannot exist, because there are no stones in the sky. Does that make their contribution to science less valid? It does not. Knowledge, or those who provide it, is never perfect.

Besides, I can't help but think that by asking that MM's movie to be 100% objective in order to be called a documentary, his opponents are applying a double standard, since they're obviously not holding Bush to that... especially where the WMDs are concerned.

Majic says

That does not mean he does not have a following of worshippers. I post an apparent spoof of Michael Moore (which is ironic enough that I think he would get a kick out if it) and donguillermo tries to get me banned (see the thread). Some people just can't take a joke, and that's worrisome for them.

Coming from an advocate for Michael Moore and "free spech", the irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

Please spare us the sermonizing about free speech and irony. You provided a source link for the material in your post, and the material in your post is not to be found at that link. That is fundamentally dishonest, and also violates the rules of the ATS Forum.

Not only that, but you didn't provide a real link to where your material came from. That is called plagiarism. You seem to think you can dismiss two examples of intellectual dishonesty by simply saying that it was all a big joke. I don't think too many people are laughing along with you.

Your attempt to have me banned for that post, on whatever basis you might choose, says far more about what motivates you than it does about me, and speaks far more eloquently to my point than anything I could ever possibly post.