Originally posted by Majic
Your attempt to have me banned for that post, on whatever basis you might choose, says far more about what motivates you than it does about me, and speaks far more eloquently to my point than anything I could ever possibly post.

Wow, that was an awesome refutation. I notice you don't care to discuss your intellectual dishonesty in publishing a false link, or your plagiarism in copying and pasting material without providing a link to your source.

Look, you could have easily said, "Hey, I found this at website xyz, and I thought it was really funny." I would have had no complaints. Instead, you represented that it was from Michael Moore's website, and you failed to tell us where the material came from. You can do all the handwaving you want, those facts will not change.

As far as what my post says about me, what it says is that I have no tolerance for liars and plagiarists.

By the way, posting etiquette on ATS is to provide a link and a brief quote, not copy and paste a huge block of text the way you did.

I will consider myself instructed. Thanks.

Originally posted by Otts


Yes, let's make sure that impeachment is reserved for the personal sex lives of Presidents, and does not extend to warmonger Presidents who go to war on forged evidence.

[edit on 17-7-2004 by Otts]

It wasn't over sex, it was over lying to a grand jury. That's called perjury.

Forged evidence? The problem is that you are still perpetrating the lie that the war is only about WMD, which it is not. It's about removing a murderous despot who supports terrorism and has killed hundreds of thousands of his own countrymen WITH WMD's...

By the way, we have found sarin in Iraq...what rock are you living under???

Originally posted by Otts

And when business prospers, it starts looking for ways to cut jobs so it can make even more money....

Spoken like a true radical left wing socialist....


"All buisness is bad....take it away and give it to the poor...."


Gimmee a break.....

Yeah, Otts, the fact that GWB used the WMDs existence as the main reason for going to war, has little to do with it, as they didn't exist anyway, and you were mean't to have forgotten about them by now.
No, this is about revenge, No, I mean Oil, No, I mean control, No, I mean.......well it's probably about weakening the global Islamic community and the aforementioned.

AR - Does the US have any Sarin? or for that matter, any chemical WMDs?

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
It wasn't over sex, it was over lying to a grand jury. That's called perjury.

Most politicians lie about things much more serious than their sex life, and on a daily basis. Clinton's lie doesn't bother me even a fraction as much as the political lies that regularly deceive America. That whole thing was a joke.

Originally posted by Koka
Yeah, Otts, the fact that GWB used the WMDs existence as the main reason for going to war, has little to do with it, as they didn't exist anyway, and you were mean't to have forgotten about them by now.
No, this is about revenge, No, I mean Oil, No, I mean control, No, I mean.......well it's probably about weakening the global Islamic community and the aforementioned.

AR - Does the US have any Sarin? or for that matter, any chemical WMDs?

Yup, as I have pointed out in the past, you sure are good at twisting things around to fit your needs. You HAVE to be related to Michael Moore-on.

And to answer your question, yes, the US has chemical weapons, and they we are destroying them as I write this. Ever heard of the Pine Bluff Arsenal? Do a little homework.

And oh, BTW, right back at ya....does GB have WMD's???

Originally posted by Damned

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
It wasn't over sex, it was over lying to a grand jury. That's called perjury.

Most politicians lie about things much more serious than their sex life, and on a daily basis. Clinton's lie doesn't bother me even a fraction as much as the political lies that regularly deceive America. That whole thing was a joke.

You totally miss the point. He lied to a grand jury. He is guilty of perjury, a felony. It makes no difference what the lie was about, it's about the fact that the man has no scruples what so ever, and he was the leader of our country. Disgusting.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by Koka
Yeah, Otts, the fact that GWB used the WMDs existence as the main reason for going to war, has little to do with it, as they didn't exist anyway, and you were mean't to have forgotten about them by now.
No, this is about revenge, No, I mean Oil, No, I mean control, No, I mean.......well it's probably about weakening the global Islamic community and the aforementioned.

AR - Does the US have any Sarin? or for that matter, any chemical WMDs?

Yup, as I have pointed out in the past, you sure are good at twisting things around to fit your needs. You HAVE to be related to Michael Moore-on.

And to answer your question, yes, the US has chemical weapons, and they we are destroying them as I write this. Ever heard of the Pine Bluff Arsenal? Do a little homework.

And oh, BTW, right back at ya....does GB have WMD's???

.....and me saying "YES" would prove what point exactly. That i'm a hypocrite for being British and asking you a leading question, or maybe a traitor for disagreeing with my government for sitting on the US admins shoulders, whilst they lied, lied, lied their way to war....!! If nothing else is safe in the US, be assured your defence (not sure thats right) budget is as safe as houses, as long as there not , located in the Middle East..!!

Edit: Changed Baghdad to Middle East

[edit on 19-7-2004 by Koka]

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by Damned

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
It wasn't over sex, it was over lying to a grand jury. That's called perjury.

Most politicians lie about things much more serious than their sex life, and on a daily basis. Clinton's lie doesn't bother me even a fraction as much as the political lies that regularly deceive America. That whole thing was a joke.

You totally miss the point. He lied to a grand jury. He is guilty of perjury, a felony. It makes no difference what the lie was about, it's about the fact that the man has no scruples what so ever, and he was the leader of our country. Disgusting.

- You have the cheek to say someone is totally missing the point?!

Wow, well, it made enough of a difference that no-one - except the republican zealot - wanted anything done about it. It made enough of a difference as to have the rest of the world think the US had lost it's collective 'mind'.

No-one gave a monkeys for your 'angels on a pin-head' "it was still a lie to a grand jury" crap.

Do you STILL not get it? Oh man.

Originally posted by Koka





.....and me saying "YES" would prove what point exactly. That i'm a hypocrite for being British and asking you a leading question, or maybe a traitor for disagreeing with my government for sitting on the US admins shoulders, whilst they lied, lied, lied their way to war....!! If nothing else is safe in the US, be assured your defence (not sure thats right) budget is as safe as houses, as long as there not , located in the Middle East..!!

Edit: Changed Baghdad to Middle East

[edit on 19-7-2004 by Koka]

HEY!!! You finally get it!!! Yes, you are an AMZING hypocrite!!! However, you disagreeing with your government is your own business. I don't agree with everything MY government does either, but I still keep faith with it, because it is by far the best and most free society, IMO, and I love my country. I don’t beat it down like many do, as it does no good. I also don't go brow beating OTHER countries as many numbnuts do, especially those who have never lived here. I've lived in GB, I know it well. Can you say the same for the USA? No? Then keep your comments to what you know, not what others have told you.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey


- You have the cheek to say someone is totally missing the point?!

Wow, well, it made enough of a difference that no-one - except the republican zealot - wanted anything done about it. It made enough of a difference as to have the rest of the world think the US had lost it's collective 'mind'.

No-one gave a monkeys for your 'angels on a pin-head' "it was still a lie to a grand jury" crap.

Do you STILL not get it? Oh man.

Has nothing to do with "cheek", (as you show me exactly where you are and what you believe with that one stupid comment), as you are just as clueless. Even my parents, who are die-hard Democrats who voted for Clinton twice were outraged that a President would not only ACT the way he did, but then commit perjury over it!!! So, while you in GB, with your page 3 girls and worthless, easy on criminals legal system, sit in judgment over OUR system, remember this....we don't care what you think. When you start having a say in how our country is run, then we'll care, which means never. Until then, get your own house in order before you trash someone else's...

I know full well what it's like to live in the states, i've seen numerous films and documentaries about the US:

Bowling for Columbine
Fahrenheit 9/11
Sgt. Bilko
Rambo 3
Universal Soldier


as you can see a varied cross section, which has given great insight to American Society.

Well actually, I may aswell live in the states, the direction this country is going. It won't be long before the majority of people over here start believing any bit of tripe dished out to them by their government.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey


- You have the cheek to say someone is totally missing the point?!

Wow, well, it made enough of a difference that no-one - except the republican zealot - wanted anything done about it. It made enough of a difference as to have the rest of the world think the US had lost it's collective 'mind'.

No-one gave a monkeys for your 'angels on a pin-head' "it was still a lie to a grand jury" crap.

Do you STILL not get it? Oh man.

Has nothing to do with "cheek", (as you show me exactly where you are and what you believe with that one stupid comment), as you are just as clueless.

- "Clueless", "I know where and what you are"!?

Wow so this OTT response is your idea of 'normal' debate is it? The fact remains Bill was not removed from office because the very idea - on the grounds presented - was absurd. Not to mention the whole episode making the USA executive and legislature a laughing stock around the globe.

oh go on, admit it for once. You're a republican party zealot and you hated WJC with a passion......I bet you think he and Hilary worship satan every night too, huh?

Even my parents, who are die-hard Democrats who voted for Clinton twice were outraged that a President would not only ACT the way he did, but then commit perjury over it!!!

- yeah and if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

I can relate to an older - much older - generation maybe, maybe, being naive enough to think the (or maybe that should be a republican) US President sexless, I can even agree that Bill shouldn't have done what he did....but be removed from office for it! Trump up "perjury" into a coup?! Are you on this planet?......cos funnily enough most of the rest of the planet found the idea insane and even those in the US knew they'd never be able to go that far . LMAO.

So, while you in GB, with your page 3 girls

- so, sexually repressed huh?

These right-wing mind-controllers they'll do that you know. They keep repeating the word freedom as they make you feel shame for being a human being.

You want to watch that.

You (should) have genitals, never let them take that away from you!

and worthless, easy on criminals legal system,

- Listen bud, I'll take our crime rate over yours anyday. We don't have half the problems you guys have and when we in the UK finally start to move toward a more continental european social system we'll have even less....with all that means regarding a cheaper system too.

sit in judgment over OUR system, remember this....we don't care what you think.

- now here you've left the planet again. You see, it's an open messsage board. I'm not sitting in judgeent on anything I'm merely giving my view.

Can you see the difference?

When you start having a say in how our country is run, then we'll care, which means never.

- No, again you're somewhere out in orbit aren't you? I'm not having a say in how anything is actually run I was commentating on events as I saw them.

Sorry it caused you such angst.

Until then, get your own house in order before you trash someone else's...

- did someone actually trash anything here or are you just being ever so silly and grossly exaggerating things....and you know I've told you a million times not to do that!

Why not tune in to tonights 'Rush 'pills' Lowbrow' show to find out what to think, maybe hes still going on about Bill being to blame for something.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
You totally miss the point. He lied to a grand jury. He is guilty of perjury, a felony. It makes no difference what the lie was about, it's about the fact that the man has no scruples what so ever, and he was the leader of our country. Disgusting.

Grand Jury means diddly squat to me. Which is worse, lying to America about war and terror, or lying to the grand jury about extramarital sex? In the same position, I'd lie too. I mean, for christ sake, the man is married! You'd lie too, if someone caught you messing around on your wife, and it's not as though it's not a common thing. It happens every day. The difference is, most of the time you're not questioned in front of a grand jury. That whole damn thing had no place in front of a jury, period, IMO. That was America at it's lowest. Basically, America was reduced to National Enquirer mentality and held there until the president was thoroughly embarrassed. The entire thing was stupid, and had no place in a court room in the first place. Maybe he shouldn't have been screwing around on his wife, but that's more a personal matter. It has nothing to do with anyone except he and his wife, IMO. They're all consenting adults...even Monica.

[edit on 19-7-2004 by Damned]

Originally posted by Koka
I know full well what it's like to live in the states, i've seen numerous films and documentaries about the US:

Bowling for Columbine
Fahrenheit 9/11
Sgt. Bilko
Rambo 3
Universal Soldier


as you can see a varied cross section, which has given great insight to American Society.

Well actually, I may aswell live in the states, the direction this country is going. It won't be long before the majority of people over here start believing any bit of tripe dished out to them by their government.

You see, before you made this idiotic post, you almost, ALMOST, but not quite, made a point or two that might be misconstrued as valid. Now you have lost any and all credibility that you may have hoped to gain. How sad.

I guess if I was to apply your same warped, moronic logic, I can say that I know exactly what the UK is like because I've seen Mr. Bean, so you are all sniveling little morons who can't even make a phone call without causing a disaster. Or that you are all raving homosexuals because I've seen the likes of Graham Norton.

But you see, I HAVE lived in the UK, and I know it's not like that. I know that the VAST MAJORITY of Brits don't feel the way you do about something you have no first hand knowledge of, although you surely have no problem showing your ignorance of what the USA is really like here.

Good God, get a grip, child, as you most certainly are one. Hollywood does not equal true life....

Originally posted by Affirmative ReactionYou totally miss the point. He lied to a grand jury. He is guilty of perjury, a felony. It makes no difference what the lie was about, it's about the fact that the man has no scruples what so ever, and he was the leader of our country. Disgusting.

Yes, yes he did lie, yes it was a bad thing to do. No one is disagreeing with that. But if you would like to compare the 2 look at it like this.

When clinton lied no babies died.
No one was tortured.
It didn't incite a billion more people to actively hate us.
Best of all, Clinton didn't claim "God" told him to.

As far as what he lied about, yes it is a severity based issue. If he lied about having a doughnut for breakfast no one would be screaming foul would they. If he lied about murdering someone and stuffing them in the trunk of his car than everyone would be screaming foul. He lied about getting a hummer, eah, that doesn't rank on most peoples scale as some great crime.

Originally posted by Affirmative ReactionYou see, before you made this idiotic post, you almost, ALMOST, but not quite, made a point or two that might be misconstrued as valid.

Good God, get a grip, child, as you most certainly are one.

You may want to stop and take a look at the board rules before you go on posting. Any insults on any level will get you warnings, enough warnings gets you banned.

Originally posted by Damned

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
You totally miss the point. He lied to a grand jury. He is guilty of perjury, a felony. It makes no difference what the lie was about, it's about the fact that the man has no scruples what so ever, and he was the leader of our country. Disgusting.

Grand Jury means diddly squat to me. Which is worse, lying to America about war and terror, or lying to the grand jury about extramarital sex? In the same position, I'd lie too. I mean, for christ sake, the man is married! You'd lie too, if someone caught you messing around on your wife, and it's not as though it's not a common thing. It happens every day. The difference is, most of the time you're not questioned in front of a grand jury. That whole damn thing had no place in front of a jury, period, IMO. That was America at it's lowest. Basically, America was reduced to National Enquirer mentality and held there until the president was thoroughly embarrassed. The entire thing was stupid, and had no place in a court room in the first place. Maybe he shouldn't have been screwing around on his wife, but that's more a personal matter. It has nothing to do with anyone except he and his wife, IMO. They're all consenting adults...even Monica.

[edit on 19-7-2004 by Damned]

- what's the use Damned?

You see if they 'step off of the gas' on this then they have to start facing up to the idea that really at heart this was all an undemocratic means of either 'hamstringing' the duly elected President or attempting to subvert the democratic process.

Imagine if the situation were reversed?

Oh, sorry what am I talking about? Many many US republicans have degenerated into a crowd that'll see their President selected rather than actually elected. Still, they'll get what they deserve, ultimately.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey


oh go on, admit it for once. You're a republican party zealot and you hated WJC with a passion......I bet you think he and Hilary worship satan every night too, huh?

Some people are just too incoherent to be deserved of further responses...you have delved into that realm....ridiculous …