Hawaii official now swears: No Obama birth certificate

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Billmeister
Being from Canada, I have been following this debate from afar, and quite honestly am not sure quite what to make of it.

BUT, if you ask me for my birth certificate, I can go get an official copy within the week,

You mean you still have your original birth certificate from birth?

I have copies for my kids, from the hospital. Official ones as well, with the seal.

But you don't have the original birth certificates of your kids? "Copies" are certifications of live birth, not the original "certificates".

I know what hospital I was born in, too,

I do as well, but I know many folks who are not aware as to which hospital they were born. Ain't uncommon.

even the name of the doctor,

Now that I don't know. It's probably written in my birth certificate but I've not paid much attention to his name, maybe his hand writing? So no, I don't know the name, atleast the exact name, of the doctor who delivered me, and personally I don't know of much folks who could recall. Not too long ago I did a "birther" test on family members asking them for their birth certificates, the names of their hospitals. Didn't ask them for the doctors names that delivered them, would have been another good test question, but what I found was that none of them have their original birth certificates and probably out of 11 family members I asked, one could recall the hospital they were born.

But hey, atleast you know where you came from, wonderful.

They can't even tell us what hospital Barry Soetero was born in.

Who is Barry Soetero? Maybe that was why in part the Hollister case got thrown out, because of names and partisan games that birthers think they can play with the courts to get their way. It has not gotten those previous 73 lawsuits anywhere for birthers. Ah, and those other birther laws?

hmm... 2012 is on it's way.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by daryllyn
I don't really understand why going to get it would be a problem, its not like they are lacking money or transportation.

I agree.

The travel expenses seem tiny compared to the $2.6 million he's paid his legal firm.

Do you have a source for that legal cost? Been looking for ages, so I can show it to people on other forums, and I can't locate a source anymore. Yes, I believe he's spent at least that much; just looking for the proof to show others. Thanks.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I never stated that Obama should produce the simple paper copy from the actual time of birth, but I am others have stated that he should produce the long-form, with doctor info, etc, and which he's not produced.

Barry Soetero, aka Barak Obama, aka Barack Obama. When he was in Indonesia, he was registered as "Barry Soetero" - pretty common knowledge. Now, changing the name later doesn't mean he is or isn't a citizen, but Soetero was used while he was reported to be registered as an Indonesian citizen. That is important, if true.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
The travel expenses seem tiny compared to the $2.6 million he's paid his legal firm.

Do you have a source for that legal cost? Been looking for ages, so I can show it to people on other forums, and I can't locate a source anymore. Yes, I believe he's spent at least that much; just looking for the proof to show others. Thanks.

The headline says $1.7 million, but that's just since the election. The $2.6 million also includes payments before the election.

Obama law tab up to $1.7 million

In total, Obama has paid Perkins Coie, a single law firm, $2.6 million since he announced his campaign for presidency

That article has screenshots of the actual quarterly amounts from the Federal Election Commission website but if you don't believe them, you can go to the FEC website here and verify it yourself:

query.nictusa.com...

That's just one quarterly report, you have to get all the other quarterly reports and add them up.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

I never stated that Obama should produce the simple paper copy from the actual time of birth, but I am others have stated that he should produce the long-form, with doctor info, etc,

Which could only be his original birth certificate. In Hawaii there are only two birth certificates, the short form which he has already presented and the original birth certificate. What you want is a photostat of his original birth certificate which would require him to release it.

So make up your mind, are you demanding his original birth certificate or not?

Barry Soetero

Who is Barry again?

When he was in Indonesia, he was registered as "Barry Soetero" - pretty common knowledge.

Yes I am aware of this, however this was never his legal name, neither is it his current name. Indonesian law dictated at the time that he was not eligible to become a citizen or to legally be adopted, neither is there any evidence that this was his legal name.

Now, changing the name later doesn't mean

Do you have any evidence indicate that this was ever legally his name? And yes, Barack Obama was born Barack Obama. I understand, raising all these "names" and "questions" helps in your eyes to make this man seem as suspicious and foreign as possible, but at the end of the day it's not getting you that original birth certificate you insist on.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
How many times must this be said , I'll even use caps so that it can be understood,

OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII IN AUG 1961 MAKING HIM A LEGAL, UNITED STATES CITIZEN BY BIRTHRIGHT THUS ENABLING HIM TO BE THE 44TH POTUS.

IT IS TRUE THAT HE DID LIVE IN KENYA AND INDONESIA BUT AS CERTAIN RULES STATE HIS MOTHER (HIS LEGAL GUARDIAN AND PARENT) NEVER RELINQUISHED EITHER HIS OR HER LEGAL CITIZENSHIP STATUS AS YOU CAN LIVE OUTSIDE OF THE NATION FOR 25 YEARS BUT AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT FILE SOMETHING CALLED A "CITIZENSHIP RELINQUISHMENT" FORM VIA THE US STATE DEPT. YOU RETAIN YOUR LEGAL CITIZENSHIP.

TROLL ALERT, TROLL ALERT, TROLL ALERT. GO AWAY BIRTHER!

Repeating the same elementary errors does not make it true. Even if Obama was born in Hawaii (no evidence has ever been presented that he was), that does not make him a natural-born American because, to qualify as such, one needs to have two American parents, whereas Obama's father was a British Kenyan. Being a legal American citizen is not enough to qualify someone as a presidential candidate. The American Constitution stipulates that one has to a "natural-born American," not just an American citizen. Your arguments therefore miss the point.

You conveniently ignore the fact (or perhaps you are ignorant of it) that his Indonesian school registration form indicates that his nationality was Indonesian, which means his mother and stepfather must have arranged for their son to give up his American citizenship (that is, assuming Obama had it in the first place) because Indonesia did not at that time allow dual citizenship, and he would never have been registered as Indonesian if his parents had told the authorities that their son was an American! What was AMERICAN law is totally irrelevant. What counts is what Indonesian law was at the time he went to school in that country. To be regarded as Indonesian, which his school registration form clearly indicates he was, Obama MUST have given up his American nationality (or his British nationality, if one wants to argue that his mother failed to meet the legal requirements for conferring her nationality on him).

reply to post by Southern Guardian

So birthers insist upon the idea that the 18year old 7 month pregnant Stanley Dunham managed to hitch what would have been a week long plane ride in those days to Kenya and back with infant Obama (somehow she afforded the ticket and was allowed on the plane)... but the idea of her travelling from Hawaii to Seattle 3 weeks after Obama is just so unrealistic to WND reporters and yourself? That is circular logic for you.

Really now, lies and speculations can never stay straight for long

First and foremost, I don't think that Obama was born in Kenya. Next are the discrepancies between Obama's auto bio and other known information.

It is not unrealistic to believe that his mother could have traveled to Seattle 3 weeks after his birth. It is also not unrealistic to believe that she was enrolled in that semester at the University of Washington. However, this little bit of history was never told in his book. We are led to believe that little Barry and Momma stayed in Hawaii while the loving father Barack Sr. made the compelling decision to leave them behind to travel to Harvard and subsequently back to Kenya without ever looking back on his wife and child. In fact he never saw them again until Barry was a young boy in Hawaii.

The opposite seems to be very plausible. She left him in Hawaii and didn't return to Hawaii until he was long gone for Harvard. Yes, quite the marriage. He of course still had a wife back in Kenya to come home to.

Originally posted by jibeho
First and foremost, I don't think that Obama was born in Kenya.

But you reference an article by Mr Corsi concerning Dunham's apparent inability to travel to Seattle three weeks after Obama was born while raising questions about the evidence of whether he was born in this country at all. So?

It is not unrealistic to believe that his mother could have traveled to Seattle 3 weeks after his birth.

but birthers believe in the possibility that she was able to travel to Kenya and back 8 months pregnant and mere days after she had give birth back. Do you see the problem here? If you are going to continue to stroke the fire of birtherism, it's best to remain consistent in your arguments about the possibility of Obama being born off US soil, because that is core reason as to why birthers want him to release his original birth certificate.

Aside from your other questions about Obama, these are not sufficient reasons for him to release his original birth certificate, neither are they productive to achieving anything.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


"Consistency" and "lunacy" are pretty much mutually exclusive. Unless the consistency in question is the state of being inconsistent.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by jibeho
First and foremost, I don't think that Obama was born in Kenya.

But you reference an article by Mr Corsi concerning Dunham's apparent inability to travel to Seattle three weeks after Obama was born while raising questions about the evidence of whether he was born in this country at all. So?

It is not unrealistic to believe that his mother could have traveled to Seattle 3 weeks after his birth.

but birthers believe in the possibility that she was able to travel to Kenya and back 8 months pregnant and mere days after she had give birth back. Do you see the problem here? If you are going to continue to stroke the fire of birtherism, it's best to remain consistent in your arguments about the possibility of Obama being born off US soil, because that is core reason as to why birthers want him to release his original birth certificate.

Aside from your other questions about Obama, these are not sufficient reasons for him to release his original birth certificate, neither are they productive to achieving anything.

You are clearly missing the point with the entire fact surrounding her enrollment at the University of Washington after Obama's birth. This information raises doubt regarding the official story as told by Obama in his autobiography as it compares to documents of registration that counter the official story of Ann and baby being left behind in Hawaii by papa.

I don't care about Kenya because I just don't believe it. I'm not stumping for his ineligibility. I want the truth behind this man of many faces and stories. He can't even get his own personal facts straight. I care about the facts that refute Obama's official story and the inconsistencies of key details in his story.

Obama as credited the 1965 Selma march for his conception. He falsely stated that his father was part of the Kennedy airlift program to bring students to America. None of the dates match.

Open your eyes to the notion of reasonable doubt. I want the truth to reveal this man for the phony that he is. With hopes of him resigning out of shame.

Originally posted by jibeho
You are clearly missing the point with the entire fact surrounding her enrollment at the University of Washington after Obama's birth. This information raises doubt regarding the official story as told by Obama in his autobiography as it compares to documents of registration that counter the official story of Ann and baby being left behind in Hawaii by papa.

This still does not make sense. You question Ms Dumhams ability to fly to seattle and attend university 3 weeks after she had given birth to Obama, but at the same time you continue to raise the possibility that she flew on a one week trip back and forth 7 months pregant. You "question" both her ability to travel during her pregnancy period and the possibility that she could have travelled to Kenya anyway. It does not make sense.

You also mention that the information raises "doubt" but how so? You are suspicious or you assume that surely, surely Ms Dunham could not have gone to Seattle but what more do you have beyond that? Do you actually have conflicting evidence? Remember that in a court of law, cold hard evidence is relevant.

I don't care about Kenya because I just don't believe it.

How can you not believe in it now after you still stated that you had doubts he was born in Hawaii? Either you believe he was born in Hawaii or not.

I'm not stumping for his ineligibility.

Not according to your previous posts.

Obama as credited the 1965 Selma march for his conception. He falsely stated that his father was part of the Kennedy airlift program to bring students to America. None of the dates match.

I am well aware of that speech he made. The civil rights movement did not start in 1965, it was an event that expanded from the mid 50's towards the end of the 60's. The civil rights movement in Selma Alabama actually began in the late 50's when various african american groups began attempting to register blacks to vote, it all grew to the point of the large marches that occured in 1965. Now could Obama have gotten information wrong? Yes, but this only further strokes your suspisions of the man. At the end of the day, your insistence of this man to release his documents because you question just how his mother could've gathered the energy to travel to Seattle is going no where. It only raises questions, it doesn't present factual evidence or conflict.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by jibeho
You are clearly missing the point with the entire fact surrounding her enrollment at the University of Washington after Obama's birth. This information raises doubt regarding the official story as told by Obama in his autobiography as it compares to documents of registration that counter the official story of Ann and baby being left behind in Hawaii by papa.

This still does not make sense. You question Ms Dumhams ability to fly to seattle and attend university 3 weeks after she had given birth to Obama, but at the same time you continue to raise the possibility that she flew on a one week trip back and forth 7 months pregant. You "question" both her ability to travel during her pregnancy period and the possibility that she could have travelled to Kenya anyway. It does not make sense.

You also mention that the information raises "doubt" but how so? You are suspicious or you assume that surely, surely Ms Dunham could not have gone to Seattle but what more do you have beyond that? Do you actually have conflicting evidence? Remember that in a court of law, cold hard evidence is relevant.

I don't care about Kenya because I just don't believe it.

How can you not believe in it now after you still stated that you had doubts he was born in Hawaii? Either you believe he was born in Hawaii or not.

I'm not stumping for his ineligibility.

Not according to your previous posts.

Obama as credited the 1965 Selma march for his conception. He falsely stated that his father was part of the Kennedy airlift program to bring students to America. None of the dates match.

I am well aware of that speech he made. The civil rights movement did not start in 1965, it was an event that expanded from the mid 50's towards the end of the 60's. The civil rights movement in Selma Alabama actually began in the late 50's when various african american groups began attempting to register blacks to vote, it all grew to the point of the large marches that occured in 1965. Now could Obama have gotten information wrong? Yes, but this only further strokes your suspisions of the man. At the end of the day, your insistence of this man to release his documents because you question just how his mother could've gathered the energy to travel to Seattle is going no where. It only raises questions, it doesn't present factual evidence or conflict.

edit on29-1-2011 by Southern Guardian because: (no reason given)

Why am I repeating myself and why do I bother to deal with your lack of reading comprehension skills? I question the official story vs. other known facts that contradict it. In plain English Obama asserted the he and his Mother were left behind in HI. The records suggest that his mother was in Washington not HI. Which is true? Was his autobiography based on lies? Did Michelle Obama misspeak when she said Ann Dunham "was very young and very single when she had him". What's true? what's a fabrication of a fairy tale? When is it ok to doubt a story when the cause for doubt came from the storyteller? IF the man is a fraud than the nation needs to know and I want my $19.99 back for buying "Dreams..."

I don't doubt that Obama was born somewhere on US Soil be it Hawaii or Washington. I question the official story and the timeline. I question the marriage and the legitimacy of the birth. Under normal circumstances you think the truth would simply make him stronger and that he would want to share the story of his birth to an unwed teenage mother. That's good bio stuff.

As for Selma..There were 3 marches. The first in 1965 gained international publicity hence obama's comments that this Event moved Obama Sr. to come the US. This was the Bloody Sunday March and the bridge that Obama mentions in his speech is the Edmund Pettus Bridge. Despite your attempt to sugar coat the history of the movement this was the march that began it all and gained world attention.

On March 7, 1965, 525 to 600 civil rights marchers headed east out of Selma on U.S. Highway 80. The march was led by John Lewis of SNCC and the Reverend Hosea Williams of SCLC, followed by Bob Mants of SNCC and Albert Turner of SCLC. The protest went smoothly until the marchers crossed the Edmund Pettus Bridge and found a wall of state troopers waiting for them on the other side.

en.wikipedia.org...

Then came the bogus claim that Obama Sr. arrived compliments of the Kennedy Family. Obama Sr. arrived before the Kennedy's got involved in the program.

The man will say anything and people just simply believe him. Check the facts.

Obama's own words are enough to raise doubt in my mind. I'm tired of the standard he misspoke defense. His 3 strikes/misspeaks have expired long ago.

To quote Obama as he speaks of his "father" getting an airlift ticket from the Kennedy sponsorship.(didn't happen) and the event that brought his parents together. Here's a tissue for you... as you read.

This young man named Barack Obama got one of those tickets and came over to this country. He met this woman whose great great-great-great-grandfather had owned slaves; but she had a good idea there was some craziness going on because they looked at each other and they decided that we know that the world as it has been it might not be possible for us to get together and have a child. There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Alabama, because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born. So don’t tell me I don’t have a claim on Selma, Alabama. Don’t tell me I’m not coming home to Selma, Alabama.

www.barackobama.com...

www.washingtonpost.com...

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Billmeister
Being from Canada, I have been following this debate from afar, and quite honestly am not sure quite what to make of it.

BUT, if you ask me for my birth certificate, I can go get an official copy within the week,

You mean you still have your original birth certificate from birth?

Why; Yes. I',m 53; I have mine in a file in the basement, raised stamp and signed in ballpoint pen by attending physician etc.its made moves and military pcs's intact because I respect and take care of it. For my generation ( my peers) it's very common to have an original have one.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Many thanks! Should have known to check WND myself.....

Didn't know the other source, though, and that's pretty official! Very helpful links, Thanks again.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


A certified copy of the original, which he should produce as a matter of course, especially since his campaign demanded that McCain produce his in court, before the election. McCain did so, for the record.

That's rather the point; no one is allowed access to any of his records, so no one knows what legal names he's gone by, etc. No one knows how many SSNs he's used (and there is some evidence to indicate it's been many). No one knows quite a lot about the man that's elected to be POTUS, and that should disturb any thinking person.

I have said it before, and will say it again; if Obama has nothing to hide, why all the secrecy regarding ALL of his personal records? He promised transparency, and he's hiding things no other president in history did.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Many thanks! Should have known to check WND myself.....

Didn't know the other source, though, and that's pretty official! Very helpful links, Thanks again.

You're very welcome, I'm always glad to help out a rival, as well as a friend!

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
He promised transparency, and he's hiding things no other president in history did.

He's the only president with an unknown birthplace, and indeed this does make him the most secretive president ever.

It's not exactly the transparency he promised either.

I guess we aren't always rivals, it seems in this case we agree

Originally posted by 46ACE
Why; Yes. I',m 53; I have mine in a file in the basement, raised stamp and signed in ballpoint pen by attending physician etc.its made moves and military pcs's intact because I respect and take care of it. For my generation ( my peers) it's very common to have an original have one.

Very understandable. None of my relatives have theirs any longer. Didn't really ask them why they don't have their originals, most were lost over time, some were damaged, not really "preserved" as I'd say. What's more interesting, none of them have ever used their original birth certificates to get anything. I did use my birth certificate to get my passport updated years ago but this was my short form birth certificate, the one registered afew years back. So to put in plain, I am yet to come across a person I know personally who has actually used their original birth certificate as a form of identification for anything. I highly doubt the younger generations these days hold their original birth certificates.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
A certified copy of the original, which he should produce as a matter of course, especially since his campaign demanded that McCain produce his in court, before the election. McCain did so, for the record.

From what I saw, McCain released what was at very apparent a short form birth certificate. His was registered in 1980, 44 years following the year of his birth. It does not even have a seal as many birthers demand, neither is it signed by his original physician at the time of his birth:
dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com...

We never got verification from officials over the authenticity of his birth certificate. Now I'm not stating this all because I doubt McCain's eligibility, I'm just applying your exact birther logic in McCains case where you have a totally different tune to.

To add as well, McCain was not required to release his original birth certificate, that is false. McCain did decide to release his short form birth certificate as a campaign move, this was on the eve of congress voting McCain as eligible. I understand that in one of the birther cases a supposed long form birth certificate was presented by Hollander but this was not verified as McCains birth certificate or of any such nature.

so no one knows what legal names he's gone by

Well this is what I fail to understand. How exactly are you going to assess the authenticity of Obama's original birth certificate if he were to release it?

I have said it before, and will say it again; if Obama has nothing to hide,

No he doesn't, he also went through the proper eligibility processes as every other president has in the past. He is not required to release any further documents neither has he or anybody else paid attention. The man doesnt spend his time surfing conspiracy forums at night for petes sakes

Originally posted by beezzer
Recently, my wife had to get another drivers license. She showed them (DMV) her short-form birth certificate.
They did not issue her a drivers license because that was not a "legal" document. She had to go to the town where she was born and get a certified copy of the long form.

Obama had to show his when he got his drivers license, didn't he? So, where is it?

I got my driver's license with my short form birth certificate and I actually could have done it without any birth certificate at all. Proving ID at the DMV is based on a points system and a birth certificate here, short or long, is worth a few points. Different places have different rules. Mind telling us just which DMV this was? I would like to see for myself what they state are necessary as proof of ID.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Do you have a source for that legal cost? Been looking for ages, so I can show it to people on other forums, and I can't locate a source anymore. Yes, I believe he's spent at least that much; just looking for the proof to show others. Thanks.

Here is the entire birther argument. You have a belief that you report on other forums as well as this one as true even though you admit you have no idea where any of the evidence of it could ever be found.

How does that not make a rational person pause for a moment?