Obama recalls Roe v. Wade, backs abortion rights

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Actually I am fairly sure you are not following here. Nobody mentioned rape in the arguments prior to you bringing it up out of left field.

Read what I responded to again. It is about consequences. Men will NEVER be stuck with the consequences of carrying a child they did not want or ask to be made pregnant with. This does and can happen to women. When you are in that same boat, get back to us about how men and women should have equal say over the issue of abortion.

This entire argument was based solely on consensual sex between a man and woman. My argument was that rights and responsibilities should be equal if you intend to allow this senseless murder of an innocent.

My point is about rights and responsibilities. Men can deny females rights and leave the woman responsible for the consequences. Men will never be in that boat. Now go back and read what I responded to and see if you can apply it yet.

reply to post by Solomons


Exactly my point. If men keep it in their pants until they meet the woman they feel will be a good mother to their children, then you men will not have to worry about a damn thing. Take responsibility for yourselves and stop impregnating women who do not want kids.

Abortion is a sticky subject. But, here's my take on it.

I don't think the government has the right to dictate what a woman does with her own body. If a woman is pregnant and does not want the child, what right does the government have to force that woman to give birth to that unwanted child? Conservatives often come out against abortion which flies in the face of the overall conservative mantra of less government involvement in people's lives.

I personally, think it's up to the woman herself to decide what is best for her.

To those that say that abortion is murder, I come back with, life is cheap, always has been, always will be. If life was so sacred as people want to say, there would be no wars, there would be no murders, there would be no executions. But those things happen without anyone really caring.

The reality is, those that are against abortion are pro government control.

Me, I am glad I have my son, I wanted my son, when I found out that my then wife was pregnant, I was stunned. It was up to her whether or not to have him, and I would have supported her decision either way, I am glad she chose life.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
One one hand I support woman's right to chose but on a personal level I don't think it is morally right. I don't agree that abortion should be used as birth control, yet I don't have any problem with the day after pill.

I am to the same degree as you. I think it is morally wrong for a woman to take the path of abortion merely because it is an inconvenience in her life after she (or he, if he is involved) chose to have sexual relations. However there are many who put this reasoning over every case of abortion which is not the case. I do not think for one second that a decision made for or by a child or woman who has suffered and unspeakable crime in the case of abortion, is doing so over "personal convenience". They should not be forced to go through another long and hard process of pregnancy because they were raped, molested, abused. Anybody who supports this is absolutely over their head, and is in my eyes installing a fascist rule.

Abortion is justified under certain circumstances. Abortion should never have to be justified, but we do not live in a perfect world, and I fully understand why some woman have made the choice of abortion.

As for banning abortion overall, this cannot be done without enforce government rule, thus, in the eyes of conservatives, making government bigger.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
Take responsibility for yourselves and stop impregnating women who do not want kids.

Huh?

I know one line posts are frowned upon, but that sentence left me speechless.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


No, he shouldn't. The fetus is part of the woman's body; the man has no right to tell her what to do with it. Period.

The fetus is a bonding of two individuals. And should be looked at as such.
It takes two to create a child, but the woman has the immediate burden, and potentially the full burden.
Any woman (or girl; or male child/adult) has a right to do whatever they want to their own person.

I have a female friend who has had so many abortions she may never be able to conceive again.
To my knowledge I have never helped conceived a child. But that is the most informed I can be.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Why would she force him to pay out for 20 years based on her irresponsibility?

Her irresponsibility? What exactly is her responsibility? Allowing his sperm to find her egg?

Her responsibility is to have proper birth control. Men can't get pregnant.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
Take responsibility for yourselves and stop impregnating women who do not want kids.

So, I can only assume that you believe women to be too mentally deficient to participate in the decision to have consensual sex. Is this your belief?
If it is not your belief, and the man AND the woman had to agree on the "consensual" part of the consensual sex, then each should share EQUALLY in the rights and responsibilities.
Perhaps you believe that the woman is incapable of understanding that sex can lead to pregnancy? Thus she suffers from an unintended and unknowable consequence of HER choice? Is this your belief?
I see so many posts on this board crying for "equality", so how about a little less hypocrisy?

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


Wow that has to be some sort of record, how many assumptions one can come up with based on one sentence.

reply to post by LDragonFire

Well, how would you interpret that sentence? Certainly she believes women are less culpable than men in the area of consensual sex. That seems to be a given. "Dirty, perverted, nasty men, having their way with innocent women"



I have been having sex for over 30 years now and have never had to force or coerce a woman into participation. Also, when I was single, I did make sure not to get the woman pregnant. It was not until I got married(at 35) that I allowed a conception to take place. I can assure that my wife was fully on board. It wasn't until 7 years after that that things went bad between us. Anyway, my point is that I never put myself in the position of getting a woman pregnant in my early days BECAUSE I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ABORTION. Because I BELIEVE ABORTION IS MURDER, I MADE SURE.

Ouch, this is one of those topics where youll get all kinds of weird answers that pretty much dont have much to do with tthe subjects, its just too personal i find.

abortion is a womens right to decide for herself, because she will go through the changes.

No man has the right to decide, and yes he does have to pay if she keeps it, cause he helped her out in the doing lol, and if ya dont want babys, just wear a condom, there pretty cheap, if your religion is againts it, well your not suposed to be having sex then eheheh.

And why is it the liberals, or that Evil president Obama lol seriously, what do they have to do with this topic lol, seriously people are just plain racist and stuck up lol, with the remarks some of you guys bring lol...

Oh and for you religious people, just let god do his work lol, if he was really againts abortion, dont ya think he would have done something already lol, lightning from above eheheheh...

And yes in the end if ya dont want to pay up, just dont do it...

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Actually I am fairly sure you are not following here. Nobody mentioned rape in the arguments prior to you bringing it up out of left field.

Read what I responded to again. It is about consequences. Men will NEVER be stuck with the consequences of carrying a child they did not want or ask to be made pregnant with. This does and can happen to women. When you are in that same boat, get back to us about how men and women should have equal say over the issue of abortion.

This entire argument was based solely on consensual sex between a man and woman. My argument was that rights and responsibilities should be equal if you intend to allow this senseless murder of an innocent.

My point is about rights and responsibilities. Men can deny females rights and leave the woman responsible for the consequences. Men will never be in that boat. Now go back and read what I responded to and see if you can apply it yet.

Perhaps you are looking at the fortune of carrying a child in the wrong light Sinnthia.I see it as a blessing to create and bring life into this world.Your post begs for one to see carrying a child as a burden.
Is there really any difference in the murder of a child whether they are one day conceived or 9 years of age?
Our cociety condemns the murder of a 9 year old but not a one day old?What an idealogical conundrum that is!A dishonest hypocrisy of appearance in my opinion.

Originally posted by CerBeRus666
Abortion should be a case of Personal Choice, and Liberty. Strange how the "Land of the Free...", has so many problems in accepting people's rights to exert their freedom.
Maybe, instead of going half way around the word, to fight against "religious fundamentalists", American soldiers should stay at home, and fight for the "Liberties", and "Freedoms", they, erroneously, claim their citizens have.

Never thought I would back Barry Soetoro...guess their's always a first time for everything.

My younger brother is 15 years my junior. He was an accident. My mother considered having an abortion. If she did he wouldn't be here with us right now. An abortion would have taken the choice for him to live away. It would have been a selfish act with the piss poor excuse that it was her choice.

If I die today I won't affect anyone anymore, I will not be on this earth anymore. Its the same with my brother, if he died before birth he wouldn't have been on this earth, I would have never know him. That would be a shame because he is a good guy.

Originally posted by GeechQuestInfo
How many people against abortion would actually be willing to adopt the child and thus "save it's life"? I would be willing to bet it would only be about 5%.

We did. And we would have adopted more but the cost was staggering. A lot of people I know want to adopt but the cost is through the roof and the gov't is exceptionally invasive. Adoption, both domestic and international, needs to be overhauled. We went through a non-profit agency 14 years ago and it cost us almost $20,000 back then. The cost now is out of reach for most people.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
Maybe these anti-choice men who ...

Again .. those that say pro-lifers are anti-choice are just using catch-phrase rhetoric that isn't true. Very few abortions are because of rape and therefore the man and the woman already made their choice .. they chose to have sex .. fully knowing that a child is the intended result of a sexual union that is unprotected. No one stood in their way of making a choice to have sex. But those adults are the ones standing in the way of the baby making a choice to live. The only anti-choicers are those that commit abortion. They take away the baby's right to live.

Originally posted by whatukno
Abortion is a sticky subject. But, here's my take on it.

I don't think the government has the right to dictate what a woman does with her own body. If a woman is pregnant and does not want the child, what right does the government have to force that woman to give birth to that unwanted child? Conservatives often come out against abortion which flies in the face of the overall conservative mantra of less government involvement in people's lives.

I personally, think it's up to the woman herself to decide what is best for her.

To those that say that abortion is murder, I come back with, life is cheap, always has been, always will be. If life was so sacred as people want to say, there would be no wars, there would be no murders, there would be no executions. But those things happen without anyone really caring.

The reality is, those that are against abortion are pro government control.

Me, I am glad I have my son, I wanted my son, when I found out that my then wife was pregnant, I was stunned. It was up to her whether or not to have him, and I would have supported her decision either way, I am glad she chose life.

Go back to the day you found out she was pregnant. Knowing what you know now about your son and his life would you have still supported her?

Originally posted by gnosticquasar
The fetus is part of the woman's body;

Not exactly. The unborn child has his/her own heart beating. He or she sucks her own thumbs; plays with her own toes; FEELS HIS/HER OWN PAIN. Abortion is a very painful thing for the baby. Burned to death with solutions .. ripped apart ... scissors to the brain in late term ... none of that is done to the woman, she isn't killing herself, she's stopping another persons heart from beating and she's doing it in a very painful manner. So we can't really say that the baby is just part of the woman's body, when in fact that baby has a body all his or her own. You can say that the baby is dependent upon the woman up to a certain point, but you can't say that the child is part of her body.

I'm 100% against abortion in all circumstances, including in cases of rape or incest. I know some people who identify themselves as "pro-life" say they can understand having a clause that allows abortions in the cases of rape or incest. I had been on the fence, until I realized the foolishness of this position. If I believe life begins at conception, when the egg is fertilized, then what makes the life of a child conceived through rape or incest worth less than that of two consenting people? Also, I do not believe it is right to punish a child for the crimes of his or her father. I know many, if not most, will disagree with my view on this matter, but I believe every life is sacred.

reply to post by jlafleur02

Go back to the day you found out she was pregnant. Knowing what you know now about your son and his life would you have still supported her?

See, we can't actually time travel. So I have no honest way of answering that question. If she had not wanted to keep him, I would have supported her, I would never have known my son, so there would be no reason to fret over that.

reply to post by Fury1984


Ok then let me ask you a question, do you support our troops in the middle east? Do you support the death penalty? Do you actually care about all the people that were murdered today? Do you care about each and every one of them? Do you look up their names in the obituaries for all the different cities, towns out there?

Originally posted by WTFover

Originally posted by Sinnthia
Take responsibility for yourselves and stop impregnating women who do not want kids.

Huh?

I know one line posts are frowned upon, but that sentence left me speechless.

It seems pretty simple to me. Maybe you can tell me where you got lost?