Does accuracy matter or no? Is there such a thing as taking a stand instead of beating about the bushes - with a feather duster so as not to hurt
them! lol Is there a point where you go beyond sensibility? I know people who won't walk on grass. This is an interesting and probably treatable
Originally posted by sinohptik
Instead of arguing about the same stuff, why dont we try to come to a middle ground?
I think vegetarians have a point in that the meat industry is a vile monstrosity of a business.
I also think vegetarians would have more success if they simply labelled their views as a life choice.
Not some pseudo-religion, in which one must convert all "non-believers."
I also see a distinct lack of respect for the plants that also need to die...
Things must die for us to live. ...
I think bickering over who is "right" and who is "wrong" will lead to nothing....
We should be working on solutions to the very real (and quite interesting) problems that are facing us...
People will never stop eating meat as a whole, because we are naturally omnivores. So, what can we do? ...
Such a thing could easily be facilitated....
However, all that would involve actually changing and doing something. ...
The typical person has zero interest in changing anything whatsoever...
Oh well, just thought id throw my own thoughts into the mix. This one tends to be more interested in trying to enact solutions, whereas most are much
more focused on simply complaining, or arguing semantics.
"This one" is better (?) than many of the rest of us in this debate for injecting a bit of restraint and roaming the "middle ground." More reasonable
shall we say?
Bravo. We all have our style.
I try to get people to think about what they are doing and quit lying to themselves. You find some practices repulsive and I agree they are more than
repulsive - they are criminal in my mind.
You find that middle ground in spite of these atrocities and manage a way to live with it. I would rather not and in fact I cannot.. Debate and
argument bring about change. All change is brought about by unreasonable men.
I care less if I am pc or appropriate.
For the most part you make excellent points and I know there are many who really don't want to dive into the middle of this argument -but for the
animals ...I will. I always will. I think I am part animal.
So even though I AGREE with much of what you say I will debate further some points.
1. The first couple of quotes I already hit upon but the idea that vegetarians need to lable themselves as a marketing tool or to acheive "success"
is ridiculous. As has been mentioned by almost 100% of them they are NOT TRYING to change anyone else. They are relating among themselves banter,
experience or the SUCCESS they have already gained and the benefits of that success to others who are " veggie curious" or wish this enlightenment for
Those who will listen and learn may do so. Those who want to dispute that model of success and a vegan health choice... are also free to do so. I
personally am in agreement with the initial premise and choose to defend it.
Then there are those who will enter the fray and attempt to display a "smarter than" approach which neither convinces vegans to go meaty or omnivoress
to go vegan but does attempt to shine a light on the plight of animals (and plants?). I adore you for this even though you are a little overly
impressed with your own personal style and approach to the debate.
If labling people decreases their own desire for meat or even causes them to think twice about who they are and what they want to consume, I don't
care whether it is for health, ethical or ecological reasons, they are all good reasons to quit meat eating...I am not above it or using semantics.
You are. We know that.
2. But then you are comparing plants to animals? No, they are not the same and yes, I will be the judge here. I am the human who is supposedly endowed
with an above natural intelligence. Of course we should not detroy forests either. Do you know Sarah Palin considers the Great Alaskan Sequoias a
renewable resource?. Cuts down 800 years old forests and replaces them with twigs? You must know, as we will all eventually learn, insensitivity IS a
form of insanity. There I go name calling again. Actually it is more of a psychological assessment.
3. Things must die for us to live? Wrong.
Things must move over. We must exercise human population control in some species...firstly our own but for the most part we may all live together
quite nicely without any animal death brought about by humans. You have no faith in this but I know one day we will live that way and look back on
these as our final days of barbary.
4. Stop bickering....That's rich. I guess it depends on what you say whether it is "bickering" or constructive arguments and facts put forth. It may
be left, right or middle ground and technically it is all bickering. Bickering about the bickering. It is how things get done in forms of democracy
other than a dictatorship
5. "We should be working on solutions" you say and again I am applauding ...My position is that gentleness, consideration and a "not for profit"
approach in almost all areas will cure the world and our society of almost all ills. Inhumanity is our biggest problem. Compassion is what we lack
and if you can manage to solve that the rest will fall into place.
You cannot hold any middle ground here. You have to make a call and decide who you are and what you cherish and respect. What will you teach you
children? Respect for the life you take? Will you say one thing and do another? Will you have a set of double standards? Read them "Thou shalt not
kill" and then kill?
"People will never stop eating meat" You are right...at least not in yours or my lifetime...but I know that eventually on this planet...they will. I
know it is, will be, a part of our evolution.
Some people are simply ahead of the curve. Don't take that away from them or discredit it as a "religion." It is a very wise, supremely humane,
deliberate and conscious choice.
We are not naturally omnivores. We are opportunistic feeders and will eat anything. We are naturally frugivores if you are using the word natural to
mean as intended or devised by nature.
You think something must be done to stem the unnecessary suffering of animals but then say people don't want to change and so you cancel out your own
proposed solutions. People never want to change. You must change them. Help them see the need for change. Did you do that?
You have some great ideas, thoughts and feelings. I did not requote them because I agree with all of those and so the point would be moot. I just want
you to know that as obnoxious as you might find me (and I know when I am being referred to) I find you unpredictable and wishy washy, because you have
no clear convictions and seems you would not stick to them if you did.
Truly, I feel more comfort with the carnivores who at least know where they stand and are clear about it than with those who might go either way -
whichever is the easiest path, right down the middle of right and wrong.
edit on 7-2-2011 by rusethorcain because: (no reason given)