So many planes? - UK skies

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posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by Beyond Creation
 


i live in south wales and we have had quite clear skies last few days with a lot more planes than usual with criss crossing direction and high up, definately very unusual.




posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by curious7
 


You tend to see a lot of these round orbs near chemtrails.
Check out fakeplanes channel on youtube or this video.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by lambros56
 


Thing is though, it wasn't perfectly round as in circle or orb like, it was almost like an ellipse shape but I'm not saying it was anything extraterrestrial because I couldn't be sure what it was



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by pazcat
It's probably wind related.
If the wind is not nominal for take off and landings they will switch runways about and planes may use a different approach direction, hence why you are seeing more planes than normal.


Sounds like you're an expert on "wind."
edit on 20-1-2011 by WeMoveUnseen because: Because it's windy



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by WeMoveUnseen

Originally posted by pazcat
It's probably wind related.
If the wind is not nominal for take off and landings they will switch runways about and planes may use a different approach direction, hence why you are seeing more planes than normal.


Sounds like you're an expert on "wind."
edit on 20-1-2011 by WeMoveUnseen because: Because it's windy


Not if you live in an area that only has 1 runway, like Aberdeen.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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Yesterday I had a huge increase in high-altitude traffic in my area, at one point seeing 8 planes with contrails within about 10 minutes. Funny thing is my local airport, ORF (Norfolk, VA, USA), had normal traffic going to the airport. So possibly military? My assumption.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 02:32 PM
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have a gander here to see live flights

www.radarvirtuel.com...

second line

Wee Mad



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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Driving home in Yorkshire yesterday, so many chemtrails lit up by the setting sun, I nearly crashed the car. Not comtrails.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by lambros56
reply to post by curious7
 


You tend to see a lot of these round orbs near chemtrails.
Check out fakeplanes channel on youtube or this video.

www.youtube.com...


I used to subscribe to 'fakeplanes' videos but sadly, he's not around anymore.

I hope its unrelated, but he dissapeared soon after I imbedded one of his 'catches' in reponse to a chemtrail thread here on ATS!

I was always suprised at the intensity of his uploads, perhaps not the only one!

Well done for you efforts too.


Peace



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by weemadmental
have a gander here to see live flights

www.radarvirtuel.com...

second line

Wee Mad


Thanks for the link. Allthough it only appears to show chartered flights, it will at least confirm 'un-known' activity.


Peace



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by weemadmental
have a gander here to see live flights

www.radarvirtuel.com...

second line

Wee Mad


Update. I'm sat at my desk in Liverpool. Totally clear day. Looking at that, there should be 1, possibly 2 flights overhead. I can see around 7 high altitude flights. In fact, a pair flew over from West to East about 10 minutes ago, one slightly in front of the other. The first one had a contrail that disappeared very quickly, the one following behind however had a trail which is now still lingering and expanding and has criss crossed about 3/4 other long lasting trails that are also expanding.

It's the first time I've ever seen 2 flying together, it genuinely looked as though one was guiding the other, they both turned at the same time etc and both looked to be at a very very similar high altitude.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 10:16 AM
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Yet again, a concerning amount of planes in the UK skies.

Very odd indeed!



Peace



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by Aquarist
Yesterday I had a huge increase in high-altitude traffic in my area, at one point seeing 8 planes with contrails within about 10 minutes. Funny thing is my local airport, ORF (Norfolk, VA, USA), had normal traffic going to the airport. So possibly military? My assumption.

Not necessarily. Norfolk VOR (Very High Frequency Omnidirectional Radio Range) is a defining waypoint for Jet Routes J174/211, which is a very busyroute which is part of the preferred route into the Northeast Corridor (NY, Bosston, Philly, aetc); as well as J-209 to/from Atlanta; and from the ground you should be able to see traffic on J-79, which is probably the busiest jet route on the east coast.
Eight isn't really many. Right now, on a slow Sunday morning, there are 11 you should be able to see at high altitude over Norfolk. Keep in mind that the line of sight from 35,000 feet is 265 miles, so on a clear day you can see high altitude aircraft over 882,000 square miles.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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Different airplane would be different altitudes, which would most likely have different conditions of humidity. And does Britain have a lot of planes? Yes, they do.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by stars15k
Different airplane would be different altitudes, which would most likely have different conditions of humidity. And does Britain have a lot of planes? Yes, they do.


Actually, talking about atmospheric humidity in the context of contrails is a non-factor. At contrail forming altitudes there is almost no water vapor, which is H2O in its gas phase. Absolute humidity is the amount of water vapor mass in a given volume of air. It's usually expressed as grams per cubic meter (g/m^3). Relative humidity is the ratio, expressed as a percent, of the amount of H2O(g) in a sample of air a given temperature as percentage of the amount at of vapor it could contain at saturation at that temperature. What is important is that warm air can carry a lot more vapor than cold air.
At 0ºC the air can hold about 6 grams of waterfor each cubic metre of air, that is, 6g/m3.
At 30ºC it increases to 30g/m3.
archive.amol.org.au...
You can see this in daily life. When you have a warm humid summer day and it cools down at night, the air can't keep carrying all that moisture and you get dew. Or frost in the winter. Or in front of a cold front, which underruns the warm air in front of it shoving it up where it's colder, you get cirrus clouds at high altitude. That's why you see cirrus clouds prior to a cold front passage.
It's also why the skiing is so good in Tahoe and along the Sierras. Moist air from the Pacific blows in Eastward until it hits the mountains and is raised by the mountains to colder altitudes where the air becomes saturated and excess water vapor is squeezed out as snow.
Most aircraft forming contrails are in the 30,000 to 40,000 foot range The International Standard Temperature (ISA) at 35,000 feet is approximately -55 degrees C. At that temperature, the ability of the atmosphere to hold water vapor is almost nil.
A jet engine doesn't turn water vapor that is in the air to visible ice crystals. It manufactures it by burning jet fuel, which, after all, is a long chain of carbon and hydrogen, in an oxygen environment. Stoichiometricly, the combustion is about 14 parts, by mass, of oxygen to one part fuel. And since oxygen is about 20% of the atmosphere, it is about 70 pounds of air for each pound of fuel. And since a normal fuel burn, at altitude, might be 3,000 pounds of fuel, per engine, you are combining a lot of oxygen with a lot of hydrogen contained in the fuel. It is exhausted as H2O (g) at perhaps 1500 degrees F but flash freezes to ice crystals (H2O(s) almost instantly as a result of the very cold ambient air and the cooling effect of expansion. Rapid expansion of a gas cools it rapidly. And the air inside a jet engine is compressed a lot inside the engine.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by 4nsicphd
 


Yeah, yeah, yeah......you don't think relative humidity and saturation are part of contrails? Really? Perhaps you should go back an look again. If there was no humidity, there would be no cirrus clouds, as they would sublime. Which would create?........water vapor. Which would remain where it is until mixed. Which negates your theory pretty much. Otherwise, the contrails would not form, as a contrail is just the trigger for the Bergeron process to start condensing more water vapor to ice crystals. Without some relative humidity in cold air, there would be no clouds in polar regions, ever. Relative humidity is pretty much 100% in any cloud, otherwise it would evaporate.
The use of the word "humidity" alone is for simplicity. Ask someone the relative humidity, vapor pressure, or saturation rate and they will have no idea what you are talking about.
But contrails and clouds show there is water in all phases in the atmosphere, and quite a lot of it. How much does a single cumulus cloud weigh? 550 TONS. That water had to be somewhere, which it is as humidity at all levels of the atmosphere.
Edit: I going to expand a bit here on my last point. The formation of water vapor from 1 gallon of jet fuel is approximately 1 gallon. Which weighs approximately 8 pounds. Now think of the volume I mentioned above, 550 tons. As a cumulus cloud is lower altitude, it will look larger than the cirrus clouds thousands of feet above them. Think of any one picture of a supposed "chemtrail". Extropolate that this is larger because of the distance, and you could safely say one "chemtrail" would be reasonable close in volume as one cumulus cloud. The volume of water would require the use of 50 tanker planes to deposit. That would require an entire fleet of planes to release the water in a single contrail if it was not already there.
It's there. You just can't see it.
edit on 23-1-2011 by stars15k because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


In my post I said the water vapor content of the air in the upper atmosphere is "almost" nil. Here is a saturation curve for saturation points at various temperatures. www.uwsp.edu... . You can see from this that the air is totally saturated at -20 degrees C by less than 2 grams per kilogram of air. A kg of air at STP is about 1 cubic meter (0.8562 m^3 to be more precise.) wiki.answers.com... . At 200 millibars, it would be about 5 m^3. And that would be 100% humidity - saturation. When we were doing the flight testing of the dash-15 GE J-79 engine for the F4D upgrade from the Dash-8, 8A, and 8B used in the F-4B, we had instrumentation showing relative humidity at various altitudes. I remember seeing about 10% humidity at altitude, which is consistent with readings from Goes Imager instrument. See, eospso.gsfc.nasa.gov... . So you have maybe one twenty fifth of a gram of water vapor per cubic meter. That is not much. Which is why passengers on long flights complain about dry air in the cabin. And why I often end up with a nosebleed after a New York to Dubai run. That 1/25 of a gram is sucked into the engine, compressed in the compressor stage of the engine and then mixed by the environmental system( enviro pack, H-valve or whatever) with ambient outside air to warm it to a comfortable temperature, of say, 75 degrees, and fed into the pressure vessel. 1/25 g/kg at 75 F is about as close to zero relative humidity as you are going to get. The combusting fuel mixed at about .83 pounds per second, mixed with 14 times as much oxygen pumps a great deal more water vapor into the air. Remember, for jet fuel combustion, 2 C12H26 + 37 O2 --> 12 CO2 + 13 H2O. That means for every 2 molecules of dodecane you burn, you end up with 13 molecules of water vapor. And almost as much carbon dioxide.

PS: To the extent that the fuel has sulphur in it, which most fossil fuels do, you get sme SOx, and since the atmosphere is also partially nitrogen, you also get a little NOx, and if the SOx is, or grows up to be, SO4, it can combine with H2O to make H2SO4 or sulphuric acid, which eventually precipitates out as acid rain.Much more of that is produced, though, by coal burning power plants.
edit on 23-1-2011 by 4nsicphd because: to add the PS





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