It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


PRESS RELEASE: What Happened To The 9/11 Firemen?: 85% Take VCF only 15% on SSDI

page: 2
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in


posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 10:31 PM
when i saw the planes hit the towers i knew they were going to collapse, it was only a matter of time.

if they willing went in knowing that was going to happen then they are brave and selfless beyond words.

that's why it makes me sick when the politicians take 9 years to provide healthcare for the surviving rescue workers squabbling over a few billion dollars when the united states gives 10x more a year to foreign governments as 'aid'.

posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 10:33 PM
reply to post by Phil Jayhan

I am certain some person, claiming to be the brainiac of left field and beyond will get on and try to convince everyone here that there is a way for the 347 fireman to be evenly spread across all firehouses. But I don't think anyone here is really stupid enough to fall for that tripe. [/ex

Ever hear of detailing ? That is men from one firehouse will be "detailed" to another for a shift to fill vacancy
from illness /vacation.

Wonder how "ONLY" one member of Ladder 10 died on 9/11?

On 9/11 - Jeffrey Olson was "detailed" to Ladder 10 from Engine 10, the officer Stephen Harrell was a
training officer fom Battalion 7 detailed there. The only regular member who died was Sean Tallon. One member
of Ladder 10 , Serge Pilipczuk became ill with chest pains . FF Mike Cancel stayed with him and was able
to make it out the building when told to evacuate. The driver (chauffer) John Morabito was outside with the apparatus. The rest of the unit continued to climb up the stairway - were unable to make it out of the building

Mr. Olsen, 31, is among the missing victims in the World Trade Center attack. A member of Engine Co. 10, one of the firehouses closest to the Twin Towers, Mr. Olsen was detailed to the ladder company of the same house on the morning of Sept. 11.

Here is story of Ladder 10 from Mike Cancel

I notice you ignored my earlier post on how Ladder 6 escaped - barely, being trapped in wrecked stairway for
several hours until rescued

Here is story by Capt Jay Jonas detailing activities on 9/11 and how escaped

Their brothers on Ladder 5 just above them in stairway did not make it out

As a sidebar attened a seminar 6 months after 9/11 and heard Capt Jonas speak and talked to him afterwards

Ladder 1 was one of the first units to arrive - it was with Battalion 1 Chief Joseph Pfeifer responding to gas leak
when witnessed AA 11 impact in North tower.

By the way Chief Pfeifer's brother Kevin, a LT in Engine 33, died on 9/11 - he was not scheduled to work that
day, but switched tours with other officer

As such would have been assigned to North tower - As early as 9:30 AM Deputy Chief Joe Callan concerned
about building stability ordered FF to begin evacuating North Tower. This was half hour BEFORE collapse
of South Tower. Some units heard the warning and got out, others did not.....

Thats is how members of some firehouses were able to escape

posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 11:03 PM
reply to post by Phil Jayhan

Now the most implausible part of their story. That these 347 went into these towers, and poof, vanished. None of their bones, flesh, 60 pound boots 50 pound rubber coats, hats, radios, air tanks surviving. They just disappeared and turned into dust. Not even to be found in the debris pile. That's what the fireman told us. That's their testimony. And in my opinion it is shameful.

Remains of 189 FDNY members were recovered and identified - so your slanderous statement is false

FDNY Bunker (Turnout) gear is NOT rubber - is a mixture of Nomex and Kevlar thread. FDNY uses a special
weave with a high degree of Kevlar for better wear resistance.

Again you are wrong.

In the museum on Libery St, right next to TEN House (quarters of Engine 10/Ladder 10) who you maligned
there is a set of bunker gear with SCBA recovered from the rubble of WTC

Again you are wrong

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:03 AM
reply to post by thedman

Is someone going to address this post by thedman or am I just subscribing to this thread for my health?
An interesting point and I'm waiting to see how it is refuted. Didn't you guys know ATS revolves around me?
Come on ! come on, Snap to it! Lets Go!

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:54 AM

Originally posted by Cassius666
I still dont quite get how many firehouses lost 1-2 members. You would assume that a firehouse operates as a team and enters the building toegether, so you would think there are firehouses which got almost completely wiped, if most of them were in the towers. How do firefighters operate, do they operate in such a way, that only a minority of each firehouse went inside the tower, teaming up with elements of other firehouses, which went into the tower, or does each firehouse operates as a unit and would enter a scene like the WTC as a large unit toegether?

On something as big as this I would have thought it was better to spread the risk and mix teams and only lose 1-2 members from each firehouse as opposed to the entire firehouse team?

What would happen if the entire firehouse team is wiped out leaving no fire response for that area?

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 03:53 AM
reply to post by YarlanZey

That's simply not the way it works. Have you not seen the movie backdraft?

Have you seen it?

WTC FOIA Occupancy Report - 1972 -2001 - LEGAL DOCUMENT:


posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 03:54 AM
reply to post by snowen20

What exactly was your question? lol


posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 06:00 AM
any luck with my questions bud?

Really interested to see that ladder by ladder breakdown.


posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:00 AM
reply to post by snowen20

Seems that some rather than denying ignorance would raher wallow in it

I have pointed out how several units were able to escape from WTC

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:05 AM
reply to post by Phil Jayhan

FAIL! People are placed into the SSDI through processes with their death certificates, apart from anything the family does or doesn't do. And in the case of 9/11, the SSA sent out special caseworker teams to each respective disaster scene to expedite the process as well as make sure it was accurately done.

How Social Security Can Help You When A Family Member Dies

Social Security should be notified as soon as possible when a person dies. In most cases, the funeral director will report the person's death to Social Security. You will need to furnish the funeral director with the deceased's Social Security number so he or she can make the report.

If, during the chaos after the death, the family simply "forgets" to call back the funeral director with this information...

Also, from some other sites:

The SSDI does not include death records for everyone who has been issued a Social Security Number (card). Common reasons for exclusion include the following:

The death was not reported to the Social Security Administration (SSA).

See above. Sometimes, people get into the "I thought someone else did it." train of thought.

The death occurred before the Death Master File was maintained in a computer database. About 98 percent of the deaths in this database occurred between 1962 and the present.

We know this is not the case.

The person did not participate in the Social Security program.

This is an open ended statement. By not participating, that could mean illegal alien, or someone that was paid under the table with no deductions.

Survivor death benefits were (are) being paid to dependents or spouse.

Hmm. BINGO! Could *this* be a reason? What are the chances their families are recieving benefits. Children will get benefits till they are all 18 years old.

A recent death may not be indexed yet.

Again, this isn't the case.

Human error. (Before you give up, read the section titled "Missing Entries in the SSDI.")

Could be, on one or two.

If you do not find a listing in the SSDI, it does not mean the person is still living, or that the Social Security Administration (SSA) has no records on the deceased. See "Contacting the SSA for Information" for instructions on requesting information on individuals not in the SSDI.

Wait. Did you do this? Contact them to find out why? For all those alleged firefighters missing from the death index? Has anyone?

So now, that leaves a fairly large task for someone to handle. Not to mention, the above points. Who is going to plow through their personal lives to see if they are getting Survivor Benefits?

You could spend a huge portion of your life on this if you attempted to back up your claims.

edit on 16-1-2011 by Libertygal because: to fix brackets

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:10 AM
reply to post by YarlanZey

The firehouse is not "wiped out" - members who were off duty, on vacation, or returning from illness will
still be available. Men from other companies will be detailed to fill out the roster. Reserve apparatus
will be detailed to take place of destroyed/damaged trucks. Run assignments can be altered to have
other firehouse cover their area. Mutual aid companies from outside NYC can be called in to backfill
empty firehouses - for example units from Bergen County NJ (across GW bridge from NYC) covered
some firehouses in northern Manhattan/Bronx while those untis were at WTC site doing search/rescue.

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:23 AM
reply to post by thedman


Thank you for your informative posts. It is so unfortunate that when truthers put "PRESS RELEASE" in their titles, it means it is more truthful. As you have shown (and been ignored by most) this "press release" is disingenuous. The accusations within it are nothing short of disgusting.

My brother spent several weeks at GZ working as a grief counselor for the FDNY.(bro is a 20 year veteran firefighter) The stories he brought home with him were some of the most disturbing I have ever heard. My brother, almost 10 years later is still haunted by what he witnessed. This attempt at discrediting and implicating the FDNY is nothing short of disgusting.

I would like to once again show just how ridiculous the SSDI is when it comes to verifying a persons living or deceased status.

TWA Flight 800 American Passengers

Alexander, Matthew, Florence, S.C. - Not on SSDI

Anderson, Jay, 49, Larson Woods, Mo. - Not on SSDI

Anderson, Patricia, 42, Larson Woods, Mo - Is on SSDI

Anderson, Seana, St. Louis - Not on SSDI

Babb, David, 13, Volant, Penn. - Is on SSDI

Becker, Michelle, St. Petersburg, Fla - Not on SSDI

Bellazoug, Miriam, 30, New York - Not on SSDI

Benjamin, Arthur, Philadelphia - Not on SSDI

Benjamin, Joan, Philadelphia - Not on SSDI

Bluestone, Nicolas, Pound Ridge, N.Y. - Not on SSDI

Brooks, Edwin, 81, Edgarton, Mass. - Is on the SSDI

Brooks, Ruth, 79, Edgertown, Mass.- Is on the SSDI

Carven, Paula, Bel Air, Md. - Is on the SSDI

Carven, Jay, 9, Bel Air, Md. - Is not on the SSDI

Coiner, Constance, 48, Binghamton, N.Y - Is on the SSDI

Duarte-Coiner, Ana, Binghamton, N.Y.- Not on the SSDI

Gabor, Daniel, 27, Fayetteville, Ark.- Not On the SSDO

Gaetke, Daniel, Kansas City - Is on the SSDI

Gaetke, Stephanie, Kansas City - Not on the SSDI

Graham, Steven, 38, Naples, Calif. - Is on the SSDI

Gray, Hank, 47, Memphis - Is on the SSDI

Hammer, Beverly, Long Island, N.Y. - Not on the SSDI

Hammer, Traci, Long Island, N.Y. - Not on the SSDI

9 out of the first 23 were on the SSDI.

A whopping 39%!

Jay, where is that 85% accuracy rate you are talking about for this airline crash??

Passenger List Obtained From:

edit on 16-1-2011 by Six Sigma because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:37 PM
reply to post by Phil Jayhan

So now you are relying on HOLLYWOOD to show you how a Fire Department operates?

You are even farther gone than I thought......

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:40 PM
reply to post by snowen20

If you are counting on someone refuting Thed's post....dont hold your breath. Remains of the firefighters and police who died that day, were recovered. As was plenty of their gear. Thedman is dead on, the OP....not so much.

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 04:43 PM
I spent a lot of time working on this today.

I made a file of every death in the US on 9/11 from the SSDI at rootsweb. Records last updated on 1-10-2011.

File created:
‎Sunday, ‎January ‎16, ‎20111:56:25 PM

There were 6,309 deaths on 9/11. This was 316 pages copied from the SSDI.

As children that were 0 years old approach the age of 18, and so on, the numbers of additions to the SSDI should increase dramatically, as survivor benefits cease being paid. I suspect each year will add more names, and this complete file can be referenced for additions/changes.

This file is in rich text format, and zipped. To read and search this file, it should be opened with Word Pad. The lists are at the bottom of the page. The advantage is having the entire list from SSDI and all names to search in one file are tremendous, and add to the simplicity of the research. If many people desire a different format, perhaps someone would be willing to convert the file and re-upload it.

The following lists are included in this file:

TWA Flight 800 Passenger List
Operating Cockpit Crew
Deadheading Crew
Operating Flight Attendants
Deadheading Crew
343 Firefighters

*only the firefighters list has been searched.
Y = on the list
X = not on the list
A - 5 on list
B - 4 on list
C - 9 on list
D - 3 on list
E - 2 on list
F - 4 on list
G - 2 on list
H - 3 on list
I - 0
J - 0
K - 3 on list
L - 4 on list
M - 4 on list
N - 0
O - 0
P - 2 on list
Q - 0
R - 1 on list
S - 6 on list
T - 1 on list
V - 0
W - 2 on list
Y - 1 on list
Total - 56 on list

There is a margin of error in user mistakes (typing an X when it should be a Y, or vice-versa; etc) Cross verification from other users interested in spending the time to do the searches is appreciated.

There is a margin for error in that I only downloaded one list per category, and did not cross reference other categories for the sake of time. Feel free to change the lists to best suit your needs by editing the end of the file.

There is also a margin of error in some names, as well. Take for instance the name John Gray. The name could appear on the list as Michael J. Gray, and the middle name could be John, and the name the firefighter was known as, but listed as a middle initial. There were several instances of names like this. I counted them as NOT on the list, pending further verification.

Taking into consideration that it is possible that not all names/SSN's have been reported, and that some percentage of the firefighters were married with children, perhaps not married but with dependents that receive SSI from the deceased, I don't find these numbers wholly unreasonable.

The SSDI is easily searchable in this file. It is alphabetical, and once you highlight the LAST name with the mouse, simply click on the Find at the top of Word Pad to search. To return back to the list once the search is complete, simply hit find once more to be returned to the highlighted name.

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:47 PM
post removed because of personal attacks

Click here to learn more about this warning.

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:54 PM
The breakdown by Company is in the first post of the thread over at LRF.

It is far more obvious when you look at the list. Carolinas Fire Page has a very cool map, showing the locatiuon of the firehouses, so I have made it easy to map their response times and distances for yourself, using the breakdown.

The idea that entire companies had climbed tower 1, and descended with rescues while the supposed inferno raged aboved them seems a little far fetched. Actually, the Rescue Companies were the hardest hit, their Companies suffered significantly higher losses as a rule, so in fact the opposite is true, according to the data.

The breakdown will show you that there were 18 Companies that lost ONLY ONE MAN.

The thread also has photos of Fire Trucks, crushed and damaged, from Companies that had no losses.

As far as the SSDI, names are often listed there in another form. Sometimes just initials, or no middle name, and it is an exact search. When searching the SSDI you have to try several combinations, as often it will show up under something other than the full proper name. The only claim I make about the SSDI results are that they are different from the norm by a statistically significant amount, and they are.

I didn't take on this research to make anyone mad, I just wanted to see if there was a trend, and did the research. It is all there in the thread for you to see.

As far as the "body parts" being everywhere, this thread will give you accurate information about the farce of the M.E.'s report.

According to the report, some were identified using one means, some using two, and some Death Certificates were issued with no identified remains at all. There were only 3 "regular" NYC Death Certificates issued for 9/11. This is all according to the M.E.'s report in that thread.

The spread of the deaths through Fire Houses all over the city, is a statistical anomaly. We would at least expect the highest concentration to be the nearest, but as you can see by the breakdowns, this is not so.

The Official number is 343, and all of the Memorials have 343 in each. However, if you list ALL of the names from ALL of the Memorials, they total 347. This is much like the "passenger lists" of 9/11.

Please, go over the information on the 347 I have listed in the thread, check them against the many Memorials, check my addition, and you will find that the research is accurate.

The 41 units closest to the WTC accounted for only a third of the losses. I understand that one fireman may be lost by a Company fighting a house fire, but these men were reportedly killed during a catastrophic collapse. There should have been mostly whole Companies involved, and there simply were not.

Follow the links, check the data. It does not reflect what common sense tells us would be real.

edit on 16-1-2011 by do2read because: added link

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 10:23 PM
reply to post by do2read

I notice that none of so called "truthers" (a misnomer if there ever was) has bothered to challenge or even
acknowledge what I has writtened in regards to losses by some units on 9/11

Here again

Truthers claim that Ladder 10 quartered on Liberty St right across from WTC lost 1 man - in review

Ladder 10 had 6 men assigned to it

Stephen Halloran - officer detailed from Battalion 7

John Morabito - driver (chauffer in FDNY) - remained outside building with apparatus

John Olson - irons (carries tools axe/maul and halligan) detailed from Engine 10

Sean Tallon - can (carries 2 1/2 gal water extinguisher)

Serge Pilipczuk - vent man (carried "hook" or pike pole) responsible for pulling fire escapes, opening/breaking windows for horizontal ventilation . he suffered chest pain and was evacuated

Mike Cancel - roof - responsible for opening roof hatches/skylights for verticval ventilation, Assisted Pilipczuk
and left building with him

Thus 3 men from Ladder 10 died in collapse of WTC North Tower - yet only one member actaully "belonged" to it
remaining men being detailed from other units to fill vacancies that day

Here is full story of ladder from surviving member

Another unit listed as losing one member is Engine 216 from Brooklyn Daniel Suhr . He was killed by impact
of person who jumped from burning upper floor

Many of the units listed as losing one member was do to personnel being detailed to other units -

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 10:31 PM
Have you guys ever wondered why there was a critical systems meltdown with the FDNY radios on 9/11? We are told it is because a repeater in the WTC was down, and also because the motorola radios didn't work in large structures like WTC well. Could there be another more likely possibility?

Could it be the reason that all the radios malfunctioned, was because it was impossible for them to fake 347 firemans radio transmissions? Those transmissions never happened. This is the more likely reason why they all malfunctioned on 9/11. It gave them cover.

Have any of you ever noticed that there is no video of the 30,000 people being evacuated from the towers? And no video of the streams of people exiting the WTC complex? The streets would have been flooded, yet they were eerily empty. And if the claim is they didn't come out because of the jumpers and exited the basement levels. they still would have come out somewhere in that 16 acre complex into the streets, and there would have been dozens, maybe hundreds of reporters there trying to get fresh exit interviews with the people.

Yet this never happens, and we never see any footage of the 30,000 people flooding into the streets, nor do we even see those streets flooded. Where did the 30,000 people evacuate and why is there no video and exit interviews with them.

Here below is a video of what I think is obviously a paid actor on 9/11. But not a very good one as he couldn't remember his 3 lines without reading them off his scrib notes in his hand.

9/11 Witness can't remember his lines -

I am absolutely dumbfounded by the number of obvious actors that were used on 9/11 that I am coming across in research every day without even looking for.

This former "WTC employee" is telling his narrative, except he forgets the name of the company he has obviously worked for for a long time! This is a must see! He actually clearly starts reading the names of his company or companies off of a list of paper that is off screen! I mean this dude is clearly an actor, if he really knew all these people up there, don't you think there would be some hint of concern in his voice? On any of their voices really? He looks more like hes trying not to laugh.

Anyway, check out the video. This one is pretty obvious. Right after 9/11, when everyone was thinking with only their emotions, things like this went overlooked. But now 10 years out it is easy to spot paid shill actors they employed in the streets on 911.

What Happened To The 9/11 Firemen? The "Missing 347 FDNY?"
9/11 FDNY & The Shame of Ladders 1, 8, and 10


Now do you guys really believe that Rudi Guliani and Larry Silverstein and Frank Lowie conspired to commit the mass murder of 347 fireman, many of which would have been friends of Rudi Guliani? Or do you think there just might be another possible solution?
edit on 16-1-2011 by Phil Jayhan because: typo

posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 11:26 PM
reply to post by Phil Jayhan

30,000 ? On morning of 9/11 the WTC was only partially occupied do to early hour, many workers had not arrived and observation deck on South tower not open yet.

Later study estimates some 13,000 - 15,000 in buildings at that time


As video of evacuations - refer to this clip from Naudet brothers, especially first minute, then 12 min in

Show sequences of people evacuating . For various reasons networks choose to show large range shots
of burning towers mostly filmed from news helicopters. Difficulty with gaining access to area probably major factor

Naudet Brothers - part 3


As for radios - don't know how things work in "truther land", but in real world FFs know that radios dont work well
in large buildings. Particularly one as large as WTC in which each floor was acre in size.
Even in my town have 2 9-10 story bank buildings have to switch our radios to direct channel as repeaters do not work in buildings, still have problems with communication in building fraction of size of WTC
Problems with were experienced with repeater system in North Tower causing many units to miss orders to
evacuate building starting with Chief Joseph Callan at 9:30 (half hour before collapse of South tower)


You are wrong on all counts......

new topics

top topics

<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in