Civility Officially Ends With A Whimper

reply to post by SaturnFX


I agree - I'm just saying politicians don't want to do that. Perhaps because as thisguyrighthere points out, when you're civil and no one else is, you're drowned out. We see that played out all the time. Sensationalism, fear, etc. is heard and spread far more than 'civil' discussion.

Originally posted by sjrily
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I agree - I'm just saying politicians don't want to do that. Perhaps because as thisguyrighthere points out, when you're civil and no one else is, you're drowned out. We see that played out all the time. Sensationalism, fear, etc. is heard and spread far more than 'civil' discussion.

For someone like me, the person whom maintains their cool and composure amid rabid animals is the person whom makes the best point in any argument.
Not just appearance of calm, but a actual calm mind in the storm.

When a disaster is taking place, people find out the most in tact person they can find and he becomes the defacto leader of a group. This is a psychological phenomona that is present in all humans. The calm and composed mind weilds almost magical powers when the outside observer notes.
This does not mean emotionless..it just means in control and words or actions chosen very carefully.

Consider a literal fight. On one side, you have a person raging and screaming..swinging a sword and chewing on his shield ready to fight. On the other side, you see a highly composed and analytical ninja remaining perfectly still with eyes like a snake on the opponent.
Just from that visual alone, you have decided who the likely winner will be of the battle...I don't even need to go further because the senario for the majority has already played the battle out.

That is how the human mind works. We see the calm and calculating as true strength, and uncivil behavior as a weakness..an exposed belly.

Reply to post by SaturnFX

Which is why state rule is preferable to federal rule.

The smaller the unit the better.

Forcing everyone to abide by one central rule will eventually result in an explosion.

If this system is settling for a way to manage 300+ million people maybe we should stop trying to manage 300+ million people.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I'm having a very hard time trying to figure out why we keep looking for our corrupt establishment to do the right thing?
ever since FDR was overthrown (forced to create the FED that sold us into slavery by none other than the rothchild's, chase, dupont etc. pls look it up General Smedley Butler a 5 star General turned them all in with documents and everything but they were not held accountable for anything and that was pretty much it for Smedley Butler who tried to save America) there has only been one man to stand for us and we all know how they took care of that.
WE have the power to either keep these worthless pieces of %&^$ in office or take them out. Why don't we just tell them ok we put you in office and we can take you out.
To me the answer to all our problems are very simple
you don't like something change it example: insurance is out of control so if every American said i'm not paying car insurance anymore until you make it reasonable, what can they do?
If every American said lower the price of gas or we will force you to by not buying one once of gas for just two days they would be on their knees
If every American said it's time the companies that put us in this mess get us out and everyone stays home for just one day they would be on their knees
even if they had all the money in the world without us as their HUMAN RESOURCE their money and power and control are worthless
WE ARE IN CONTROL_ WITHOUT US THEY ARE NOTHING
WE DO NOT NEED GUNS OR WEAPONS OR MARCH ANYWHERE JUST STAY HOME DO NOT PAY ONE CENT ON ANYTHING FOR ONE DAY (JUST ONE DAY) YOU WILL SEE HOW THE MEEK CAN CONTROL TPTB
WHY ARE WE AFRAID OF INTERNMENT CAMPS BECAUSE IF THEY PUT US ALL IN THERE WHERE DO THEY GET THEIR HUMAN RESOURCES FROM?
CAN YOU SEE THE WALTONS RUNNING WALMART BY THEMSELVES?

reply to post by Frogs

The very nature of government would be in conflict with the pledge. Government takes from the people. Left/right, it doesn't matter.

Government is the fat guy sitting in the seat next to you in the plane. Sure, he's a sky marshal, pomising to keep you safe, but why in the heck is he stealing my peanuts?????

It's a noble ideal, but one that is lost before it reaches the starting line. Who would be the one to define "civil"? The left? The right? Sadly, this is our system.

Just another humble opinion.
Beez

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


You're right.

But what now? We're a corporate-run country of head-in-the-sand citizens....

reply to post by SaturnFX


Doh - my bad. I don't know why but for some reason I mis-read the 1st line of your post as "wouldn't" instead of "would". I am sorry. Mis-reading that one word was actually one of the things that caused me to say I didn't understand as you usually strive to be civil in your arguments (it does show).

Btw- excellent example of a civil and un-civil arguments. As you have shown being civil does not mean being a push-over by any means.

Reply to post by sjrily

That's the million dollar question isnt it?

I dont have a good answer.

the best Ive been able to come up with is drop out. Drop out of it as much as you can. And if they ever come for you to pull you back in defend yourself.

Of course push for real change as much as you can all the while. Try to educate others.

Hopefully the latter wins out before the former gets you killed.

At this point that's the best I can come up with.

Or, the whole thing will go bankrupt for real and we'll get to start over.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

It never hurts to remind people to be civil. Civility is key to cooperation, compromise, and community and progress.

Then again, just think how exciting and entertaining C-SPAN could be if our Congress critters did some of what these politicians do...only with guns if that Texas dude's bill passes (www.outsidethebeltway.com...). I kid, I kid. Sort of.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere




Funny, I've actually been trying to follow those steps (and I often consider dropping out entirely - like to another country!) and I agree with your last statement. I suspect that the "American experiment" as we know it has about run its course.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by alittleironic
This goes to show you how corrupt and disgusting these people are.

This should read:

This goes to show you how corrupt and disgusting WE are

We elect them, they represent us. If you want something different, elect someone different, or even better, RUN FOR OFFICE!!!

Its the easiest thing on earth to stick a sock on your hand and suggest everything going wrong in your life is because of the sockman.

I see politics more as sticking a sock in their pants and expecting everyone to believe they really got something to admire. Just an empty sock with a following, but it does carry clout. Why be civil when you're Johnny Wad?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

It's knowing that whether you sign it or not there is nothing shaping your behavior. That anyone who signs it can just act like an ass anytime they want and that anyone who doesnt sign it could act like a perfect gentleman all day long.

It's meaningless.

I agree with part of your argument and disagree with part.

Yes, Anyone who signs it could still go around acting like a jerk. I agree with that part.

I disagree that it meaningless. I disagree that there is nothing shaping your behavior. To one extent, other people could of call you on it. Tell you, "Hey, you are breaking your pledge to be civil." Of course, you could tell them to pound sand.

That leads to what in this actually shapes your behavior - you do. You, your word and your will to keep your word. That is what ultimately shapes your behavior on this.

Say I sign it - and the next post I'm cussing you out. You remind me of my pledge and I tell you to go jump in a lake. Simply put, I've then proven to you my word is not worth the number of bytes it takes up in cyber space. That is what is ultimately shapes your behavior on this.

Yes, we are all human and would no doubt slip up occasionally. That doesn't nullify trying to keep a promise and striving to do better when you slip up.

Reply to post by Frogs

To one extent, other people could of call you on it.

Yes. Potentially motivating.

But in this world where everything is recorded and saved and politicians are routinely "called out" it still makes no difference. The politician lies straight to the camera and the constituents go right on believing whatever they want to believe.

They look right at video of themselves saying something then stare right at the interviewer asking the question and say "I never said that" and it makes no difference.

Come to think of it there's no real reason for them not to sign it. I wouldnt because I refuse participate in patently trivial nonsense but politicians love patently trivial nonsense. Now that's got me thinking about what they were thinking. Hmmm.....

Originally posted by Frogs
4 responses thus far and 2 have said outright they would not sign it, 2 didn't say but one of the comments leads to think at least one of those may lean "no".

I guess I don't understand. What's the harm in saying you will be civil? Is it fear others will not and you won't be able to respond in kind?

Star and flag. If it is any consolation, I started this thread and it has gotten zero replies as of this writing. I put my money where my mouth is and intend to walk the walk but I think people enjoy this vitriol.

ATS sometimes resembles Anger Treatment Site but I've made a pledge to be civil and it is on the record. I will do my best to control my snarkiness. If I'm provoked I intend to shove a flower in their rifle barrel. I tried the opposite and seem to have gotten nowhere. What's the definition of insanity again?

It's nice to be important but more important to be nice. I applaud you for this thread.

I would sign it. It has been this behaviour that has made science as strong as it is. It is about an intelligent discussion on all the issues so the facts can be sorted out from the fiction. The usual rhetoric and over simplification is ignorant. This is a complex world and complex debates are needed to understand the situation and conclude on a course of action. Being civil does not mean being weak, it means doing the right thing.

They did not sign it because these days being civil can be taken as a sign of weakness.Sadly,the old adage "nice guys finish last." has more meaning then ever now.

Originally posted by mike dangerously
They did not sign it because these days being civil can be taken as a sign of weakness.Sadly,the old adage "nice guys finish last." has more meaning then ever now.

I agree, and being uncivil is more popular, civil is geeky.
This is not just about the politicians and the politics, it actually reflects the entire american society as a whole. It is rather hypocrytical if expecting politicians to be civil yet a lot of people in ATS have no intention on being civil themselves. Cheap thrill is more fun, sign of times.

reply to post by mike dangerously

They did not sign it because these days being civil can be taken as a sign of weakness.Sadly,the old adage "nice guys finish last."

At the end of the day we are all finished anyway. Do you want to be known as someone with the strength to stand up for what is right, or weak failing for whatever you can get away with.