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40 Percent Of All U.S. Doctors Plan To Bail Out Of The Profession Over The Next Three Years

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posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 11:04 AM

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

One tool I have used in the past is to look and mentally argue the point from the opposing side. It helps define your argument. So you see big government as a plus, as a "friend" to help those who need it, correct?
Sorta like a big brother, huh?

This has nothing to do with Big brother. This has everything to do with keeping the playing field level so that no larger entity takes advantage of a smaller entity.

So you are against the free market system. I mean, keeping the playing field level would have inhibited Gates from cornering the market on Windows, keeping the playing field level would inhibit any company from success.
I get it, you don't want somene to be "better" than someone else.

Tell me, how many trophies did YOU get for "participating"?


When capitalism threatens democracy like it has been doing things are required to reshift the balance back to the side of the people. Read the post above yours and this explains things better. Beyond that like I've said, I am all for any company making as much money as it wants but at what cost? AT&T's monopoly over the telecommunications industry led Govt to interviene and break them up. The banks that are "Too big to fail" are being broken up next so that they cannot collapse the entire system. Remember when Big Tobacco had Govt in it's backpocket? Nowadays Big Tobacco fears Govt. Health insurance, financial companies, energy conglamurates are next.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 11:18 AM
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

What you describe is not in fact capitalism. It is in fact corporatism. I have written so much about this I will just provide the link.

You are barking up the wrong tree.

By the way globalist corporatist love socialism. It is the end game in fact.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 11:22 AM
reply to post by Kaploink

perhaps the malpractice insurance companies are gouging their customers....

In some state Doctors will not even perform certain practices (deliver babies) because the cost of insurance is so high.

It takes about four-and-a-half years from the start of a lawsuit to the end, and the average cost to the defense in legal fees was $94,284 in 2004, according to the American Medical Association...

Miami-Dade County, in South Florida, is now the most precarious place for doctors to practice when it comes to lawsuits. In 2007, OB/GYNs paid on average $275,466 annually for malpractice insurance.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 11:26 AM

When capitalism threatens democracy like it has been doing things are required to reshift the balance back to the side of the people.

Are you serious? LO-freakin-L. Capitalism is now a threat to democracy? And the balance needs to go back to the "people"?
What people?
Trade organizations?

For someone with a proclaimed IQ in the high numbers you sure need to do some learnin'. Really, my marxist comrade. Unless you are a mediamatters troll paid to say these things.

You really are making NO sense.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 11:54 AM
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

Regulation keeps people safe and healthy and makes damn sure that a product will do what it is being advertised to do....

What planet are you living on???

Regulations and the bureaucracies they spawn are designed to protect the Corporate Cartels from competition. Government/Corporate Revolving door - big Pharma and Government-industry revolving door

Jolley: Five Minutes With John Munsell & A Trip To The Woodshed With The USDA

One day, a long, long time ago, Big John noticed something amiss. Contaminated meat was coming in the back door of his very small plant. “That’s not right,” he thought and called the authorities.

They arrived ready to right a wrong;...

An inspector, armed with many official looking pieces of paper, looked Big John in the eye and said, “Assume the position!”

“Obviously you don’t understand the way we do things around here,” chuckled the inspector who was amused by Big John’s apparent naivety. “We found the bad stuff in your possession; therefore you have to be the bad guy.”

John was frisked again. This time, the authorities included a full body cavity search. It was VERY thorough exam.

“Wait,” protested Big John again. “All this bad stuff came from (deleted), a very large company that might be shipping lots more of that bad stuff to thousands of people. I can prove the bad stuff came from them. PLEASE go after them!”

“No, No, we can’t go after (deleted),” said the now impatient inspectors. “Don’t even say that name. We found the bad stuff here so you must suffer the consequences! We have to protect the public!”

Finally a woman died. Big John lost his business.

You might want to read WHY this happened - Legislators overlook serious flaw in USDA’s HACCP food-safety system—while promoting its adoption by FDA But that is alright Congress has just passed a new law that allows the Corporate cartel to blame farmers for their filthy practices. The "How to Guide" was actually written up in an industry magazine a few years ago.

Congressional Hearings

Efforts of Food inspectors to bring problems with HACCP ignored by USDA management
Apr 17, 2008 Testimony:Mr. Stan Painter, Chairman, National Joint Council of Food Inspection Locals: December 2004 Union president Stan Painter receive reports from union member that SRM regulations are not uniformly enforced. Painter writes to the Assistant FSIS Administrator for Field Operation about enforcement problem. USDA responses by placed Painter on disciplinary investigation status and contacts the USDA Office of Inspector General about filing criminal charges.

It (the recall of Hallmark/Westland Meat) highlights one of the problems that we have attempted to raise with the agency ever since 1996 when the Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points (HACCP) inspection system was put in place. There seems to be too much reliance on an honor system for the industry to police itself. While the USDA investigation is still on going at Hallmark/Westland, a couple of facts have emerged that point to a system that can be gamed by those who want to break the law. It (HACCP) shifted the responsibility for food safety over to the companies .

December 2004 Freedom of Information Act requests
August 2005 Over 1000 non-compliance reports – weighing some 16 pounds -- were turned over proving Stan Painters allegations.
Hearing where Stan Painter's testimony is blown off

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 12:33 PM

Socialized medicine failed in America.

When I was at Veterans Affairs in the room with the doctor I read the message on his computer screen that I have carpal tunnel and it said "patient refused treatment". I NEVER refused treatment and I applied for VA Disability for Carpal Tunnel as I was diagnosed with carpal tunnel while in military service. They denied me a VA Disability for carpal tunnel but put in their computer I refused treatment??

THEY decided to not treat me...under Socialized healthcare.

I had a microdiscectomy while on Active Duty after a herniated disc exploded into pieces sending me to the ground in pain. The military sent me to the local civilian spine surgery clinic. The surgeon told me he was doing the surgery the next day. After the surgery I was worse and kept going back but they said it was "inflammation" from the surgery pinching my nerves.

Later I found out from a MRI they left metal fragments in my spine. I also found in my medical records they informed Tricare they were going to use "P.A.C.s" for my surgery. I was going to be a guinea pig for some trainees. The surgeon wasn't doing the surgery. That's when I found out there is no State nor Federal Law even requiring the surgeon to be present during the surgery. Even tho his name is all over the records.

They finally realized my surgery was a failure so they needed to do a Spine Fusion to dig out the metal fragments. The military refused to give me Convalescent Leave nor take my 45 days of leave to get the surgery. I was Disabled Retired in 60 days.

It took me +3 years to get Veterans Affairs to do my spine fusion. This new procedure called "XLIF" finally came out and I was going to be their guinea pig to get it. The day before the surgery they had me scheduled to see the surgeon at 8pm at the VA Hospital in San Francisco. There was a young college kid there talking to me about this new surgery he was going to watch XLIF. I finally get to see the surgeon and going back to his office the Head of the Surgical Center was screaming "they aren't giving us enough funding for supplies".....I jokingly asked the doctor I was talking to...."you got enough supplies to do my surgery right?? He laughed it off but the look in his eyes told the answer.

I got the surgery and when they woke me up there were a bunch of doctors around my bed. "How do you feel". I told them I felt fine but that I couldn't move my legs. The look on their eyes was scarier than me not being able to move my legs. I told myself I wasn't dieing in that unfunded hellhole and forced myself the next day to get up and move with a walker. I couldn't hold myself up and didn't make it far.

They flew me from Guam to there for the surgery and they wanted to discharge me to make room for the next piece of meat...I didn't want to die there and forced myself under agonizing pain to get to the airport with a cain. The flight home was the most pain I've ever endured sitting in that tiny cramped airline seat for hours and hours and hours...just to get to Hawaii...halfway...woo hoo....hours and hours more to go. There was this little old lady sitting next to me and at one point getting onto the next plane I fell on her as I couldn't hold myself up. She gave me a mean look. After the flight was over and I got my cane from the overhead and limped off the plane she had the biggest look of pity in her eyes as she realized why I fell on her.

The surgery made me worse as now my hips get red hot, my legs ache from muscle spasms due to pinched nerves=nerve damage. Now impotent as well. I complained the surgery made me worse but there's no help. It's easy to get narcotics now from doctors. All they have to do is look at my Xray.

speaking of looking at my xray, this new cheapo spine fusion called XLIF....they glue your vertebrae together. Appears something went wrong because it's been +2 years and the bone hasn't grown looks like there is a massive fracture between the vertebrae.

Socialized medicine=failure. Just look at Veterans Affairs and what they do. They are busted every month for getting caught not sanitizing equipment because they can't afford it. Leaving radioactive pellets in people for too long treating cancer....

And the recent Phoenix Veterans Affairs story where sewage pipes were leaking in the hospital and raw sewage dripped into a patient that was cut open and being operated on.

If that's how America treats it's Vets with Government Socialized medicine....God help the rest of America
edit on 8-1-2011 by Pervius because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 12:37 PM
reply to post by FredT

....Medical liability reform should have been based before Obamacare period. This aspect alone would save 100's of millions.

A 25 minute transport requires me to fill out almost 20 sheets of paper taking about 2 hours. This has to stop. I spent 4 times the amount of time with my paperwork than I do actually caring for my patient.

Thank you.

If Congress really wanted to help Americans and our economy they would get rid of the useless liability lawsuits not only in the medical field but every where. TORT REFORM is really really needed.

The other thing is Congress should have started cutting useless paperwork. Unfortunately Management types seem to LOVE paperwork that is USELESS and Congress just piles more and more onto every American business until they suffocate and die, leaving only the international cartels standing.

Scott Dalgleish was an editor of the American Society for Quality Magazine for five years, and now owns a small manufacturing business.

“...Scott Dalgleish, [was] vice president of manufacturing at Spectra Logic Corp., a Boulder, CO, maker of robotic computer tape backup systems. Dalgleish, an ASQ certified quality manager who has worked in the quality profession since the late 1980s, is not happy with the direction that the quality movement has taken in recent years. And he sees the ISO 9000 family of standards as the primary negative influence.

Among other things, Dalgleish contends that ISO 9000 misdirects resources to an overabundance of paperwork that does almost nothing to make products better, while fostering complacency among top management and quality professionals alike. The recent conversion to the 2000 version of the standard has only made things worse, he says. While ISO 9000:2000 has almost no effect on how good companies operate, it requires huge amounts of time for document revision that could better be spent on real quality improvement, he believes...”

Probing the Limits: ISO 9001 Proves Ineffective

...”I'm wondering if there might be a silent majority of Quality readers out there on the topic of ISO 9000. The response to my July editorial, "Eliminate ISO 9000?," was the heaviest that we have received in some time. I got lots of e-mails from readers about the piece, which reported the views of Scott Dalgleish, a quality professional who has been publicly critical of the impact of ISO 9000 on manufacturers, and has suggested that companies eliminate ISO 9000 altogether from their quality management systems.

Many of the responses were quite articulate, and some were humorous and entertaining. You can read a sampling in this month's Quality Mailbag department on p. 12.

One thing that struck me about the letters I received is that almost all expressed some level of agreement with Dalgleish, particularly on issues related to excessive ISO 9000 documentation requirements. As you'll see in the Mailbag department, one reader even said that his company has already dropped its ISO 9001 certification with no apparent negative effects.
What surprised me is that the July editorial elicited no ardent rebuttals in defense of ISO 9000...”

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 12:40 PM
reply to post by Pervius

Well said my friend, I wish I could do more then give you a star.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 12:55 PM
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

Let those greedy comapnies go elsewhere and that will allow for a new company who puts people before profits comes in....

A company that put people before profits is a company that will be bankrupt in a few days. 80% of new businesses fail. Why?

Of these failed business, only 10% of them close involuntarily due to bankruptcy and the remaining 90% close because the business was not successful, did not provide the level of income desired or was too much work for their efforts... The failure rate for new businesses seems to be around 70% to 80% in the first year and only about half of those who survive the first year will remain in business the next five years.

Please do not give me any socialist touchy feelly crap. All I want from a business is honesty.

A good business wants to make money and realizes the best way is to provide the best product and the best service at a reasonable price. They also realize the best way to do this is to attract the best, most innovative people and treat them well.

The problem we have today is DISHONEST politicians have short circuited competition by having regulations designed to wipe out the smaller competitors and bureaucracies packed with Corporate Cartel puppets. We have had major consolidation and the formation of cartels and nothing has been done by the government who is SUPPOSED to protect us from these predators.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 01:06 PM
reply to post by BigTimeCheater

Wow, time out. I am guessing you are either very young, or very ignorant. Perhaps both.

You clearly have no understanding of the Constitution whatsoever, and should really educate yourself on it before attempting to debate it.

The Constitution in no way guarantees no one should go without.

How one can even come close to taking that away from the Constitution clearly shows a level of ignorance on the topic that is absolutely astounding.

This no doubt is the newest twist in or "Socialized" Education. It fits right in with the Dulles boys trying to make people believe a TREATY trumps the Constitution.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 01:14 PM
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

I am forever for any company being allowed to make as much as they want, that is in part what keeps the economy going but at what point does putting profits before people become problem? Since these companies failed to "self regulate' themselves Govt had to step in.

You have it upside down. The GOVERNMENT insists that the insurance has to be carried and therefore the Insurance companies can charge a very high price because they have a captive audience. For example I moved from a no insurance required state to mandatory insurance state and my premiums TRIPLED!

If people are not forced to buy you get a profit maximization curve where raising the price beyond a certain point causes a LOSS in profits.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 01:29 PM
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

Government's job is to be the big, bad entity that keeps these kinds of companies up at night living in fear. How many more livelyhoods must be destroyed before someone gives a flip about the average American?

As to mental and intellectual proficiency myiq is between 150 - 170 which makes me smarter then roughly 7,5 - 7,9 people out of 10 so that makes what I say as fact. I think about stuff like this all day every day.

Well you come across as very naive. I suggest you read up on the Federal Reserve because you obviously think the Government is here to help us and not to rape us for the benefit of the banksters which is the actual case.

I strongly suggest you research Congressman McFadden:


The history is contained here: SECRETS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE

An excellent example of the banker rip off by a lawyer:

A good article on Economics and how to fix the mess:

My Thread, Bloodsucking Bankers, is here

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 01:41 PM
Good. Many doctors are waking up to the mass corruption with allophonic medicine anyways. I can only hope many ditch out, and start up practice as a doctor of integrative/alternative medicine. Too many sycophants as it is.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 01:54 PM
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

When capitalism threatens democracy like it has been doing things are required to reshift the balance back to the side of the people.

The system that now exists in the USA is Neo-Corporatism not capitalism. "Socialism" is just the "Sheep's Clothing worn by the Bankster wolves to lull the sheep into thinking all the laws that are passed are for their benefit. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

Every new law costs money, money that is "borrowed" from the FED. 40% of our 14 trillion dollar National Debt is "owed" to the Fed.

Plenty of money is loaned to the government but never enough. Congress needs more money than that. They say not to worry. They go further down the street to the Federal Reserve building. The Fed has been waiting for them, that's one of the reasons it was created. By the time they get inside the Federal Reserve building the officer of the Fed is opening his desk drawer. He knows they're going to be there and he's ready and he pulls out his checkbook and he writes a check to the US Treasury for one billion dollars or whatever the amount is that they need. He signs the check and gives it to the treasury official.

We need to stop here for a minute and ask a question. Where did they get a billion dollars to give to the treasury? who put that money into the account at the Federal Reserve System? The amazing answer is there is no money in the account at the Federal Reserve System. In fact, technically, there isn't even an account, there is only a checkbook. That's all. That billion dollars springs into being at precisely the instant the officer signs that check and that is called "monetizing the debt," that's the phrase they throw at you. That means they just wrote a check, a big rubber check. If you and I were to do that we would go to jail but they can do it because Congress wants them to do it.

According to an article in The New Republic of Dec. 2, 1991, in 1948, a married couple with median income and two children, paid only 2% in state, federal, and Social Security taxes. In 1999, Social Security was 15.3%, plus 2.9% for Medicare, out of the first $62,700 in wages, or $11,411.40, and then perhaps 30% in federal taxes…if you were lucky....

If you do not understand what money is, or what wealth is or what true capitalism is you are helping the banksters spread their evil.

The banksters, and their tame media, brand those of us who try to spread the truth as ignorant liars or kooks. Think about it. Most of the media is "left wing. yet J.P.Morgan OWNS the media and has done so for nearly one hundred years, since 1917 So pleas tell me WHY "Socialism" is called good and Capitalism is called "evil" by the propaganda outlets of the Banksters.

What is Money?
Money is the tool of exchange. It is the logical refinement of the barter system. Money is used by people as the easiest means of trading value for value. Money has been shells, wampum, obsidian arrows, brass, gold, silver, copper and now paper certificates.

Money, especially those pieces of paper, is a token of honor. When you go to work you accept money in payment for your effort or products whether you are an employee selling labor or the business owner selling a product or service. All civilized people do so only on the conviction that this token of honor can be exchange for the product of the effort of others.

Bankers short circuit the system because the "money" they create is created out of nothing. In the exchange of value for value, they cheat the system by exchanging value for debt and use trickery to conceal this theft.

So what is wealth?

Wealth is the product of man's mind. Man uses his ingenuity, and labor to shape raw materials into products others desire. Products that he can then trade, using money, for the items he wants and needs.

In an honest society, without laws bent to favor the few, it will be the best product or the best performance that wins your money. This is how ingenuity is rewarded and civilization advances.

So what is the real definition of capitalism?

The banksters, with their bought and paid for media have promoted the idea that some how capitalism is theft. They have promoted the idea that our present system of Neo-corporatism is capitalism. Then they use the evil system they have created to convince people to hate capitalism.

Why? Because the banksters HATE capitalism since true capitalism will not allow them to loot nations. Banksters LOVE socialism, progressivism, fascism and neo-corporatism, or any form of government that restricts the rights of individuals thus allowing them to steal control of the government. This allows them to direct the wealth of a nation into their pockets in exchange for their worthless scraps of paper that represent nothing. For banksters are looters, thieves and fraudsters who take our wealth from us by trickery and the force of a corrupt government.

What is capitalism?

Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. Under capitalism the state is separated from economics (production and trade), just like the state is separated from religion. Capitalism is the system of laissez faire. It is the system of political freedom.

The government's job is to protect rights. [NOT take them away]

Today capitalism is equated with greed, avarice, ecological destruction, and corruption. But what does capitalism really do? It reinvests the wealth and ingenuity of individuals for the advancement of civilization.

You know the banksters and their minions lie to us so you might like to look at this essay: Revising the Revised History of Capitalism Talk about rewriting history!

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 02:16 PM
reply to post by Pervius

If that's how America treats it's Vets with Government Socialized medicine....God help the rest of America

Amen to that.

I was talking to a women who was a V.A. nurse. Her husband had been injured and messed up and was suing to get the treatment he needed. One of the doctor's at the hospital warned her to get her husband the heck out of the hospital FAST because he was "scheduled" to be terminated so they could cut costs!

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 02:20 PM
reply to post by FlyingJadeDragon

We have to repeal that monster totally and start over. Republicans have a play that would have acheived the goal of gap coverage. We had coverage for the poor and the elderly. Americans made clear they did not want socialized medicine. The Health care bill piled on a bunch of radical stuff like Obama's civil military, for example. No one read it and Pelosi hid it so must of the most monsterous stuff was not discovered until after the bill passed.

Passing haphazard leglislation like this is a disgrace to the United States.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 02:22 PM
just adding my two cents here:

RE preamble: ever heard of the social contract?
the constitution is basically an agreement on how we the people are going to live together
it's necessary.


right to health-care? NO.
right to a job? NO.
right to an education? NO.
right to a house of your own? NO.

why? because somebody else has to provide it, what about their rights hmmm?

these doctors and med. prof. are leaving/retiring because they are not willing to be slaves.

woe to those who must someday submit to the knife of one who has been made a slave.
S for Beezer

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 02:27 PM
I have yet to actually meet a doctor who plans on quitting as a result of Obamacare. I am curious where the survey attained their numbers. I have met a few that are planning to retire, however, they were going to retire no matter whether it passed or not. There has always been more money in private practice, that's why doctors pursue that option if they are able to. My aunt has been planning to go into private practice for the past 5 years, she will open next year, and it had zero to do Obamacare, again it was just right time for her financially and she finally had enough patients to make it successful. I think that the survey was either skewed or didn't take other factors into account.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 02:29 PM

This has nothing to do with Big brother. This has everything to do with keeping the playing field level so that no larger entity takes advantage of a smaller entity.

you need to read Kurt Vonnegut's classic: Harrison Bergeron
you also need to get your head out of your...
Manichean Beliefs


that is sooo 20th century.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 02:34 PM

Originally posted by FlyingJadeDragon

Obamacare sure is working great, isn't it? According to an absolutely stunning new poll, 40 percent of all U.S. doctors plan to bail out of the profession over the next three years. Yes, you read the correctly. 4 out of every 10 doctors in America say that they are getting out in the next three years.

Link to article:ww

America is already facing a shortage of doctors. Specialists are getting harder to come by due to the high cost of malpractice insurance related to all the frivolous lawsuits and resulting laws which have rendered doctors nearly powerless.

Prepare for things to possibly get even worse courtesy of the new health care bill as doctors may be further ham-strung with even more regulations concerning type,level and cost of care they are allowed to provide.

I wouldn't be surprised if many people in the U.S. health care industry started pulling up stakes and setting up shop in other countries. After all, more Americans are fleeing the country with each passing year. Hundreds give up their passports and hunker down in other countries and they will be needing and wanting more of the special Expatriate hospitals and clinics to get their medical attention from.

Here's another interesting point: Starting this year,the first round of Boomers will begin retiring in waves over the next ten years. This will create an even heavier burden on the already gutted,over-priced and underperforming health care system. With this in mind,this crisis could explode into something that has neither been seen nor planned for yet.

If you've got a Plan B,now might be a good time to get on with it. Also,if you haven't done it yet,you might want to start learning how to perform emergency field medicine. Can't hurt.

edit on 8-1-2011 by FlyingJadeDragon because: wording.

edit on 8-1-2011 by FlyingJadeDragon because: wording.

If these dcotors bail out, my word is LET THEM, they are displaying a greed, they care more for the moeny then the patient. What these doctors are crying at the fact instead of being billionaires they will be millionares, let them bail, I dont need a doctor who cares more for the $$$ then the patient. ( noting im not for all of the obmamcare bill, some parts are good but the larger partof it is not good)

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