America: Not A Christian Nation

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

I am supporting my claims thank you... "American is no longer "just" a Christian nation" but who's to say that is not where we once were ? (write a letter to the president and get him to explain his exact words)

You mean when we were a nation of British colonies? No question we were just as christian as England was at that time. Though it's impossible to find any christianity within America's founding documents in and beyond the DOI.

how many time do you and IAMIAM have to hear that America is no longer "just" a Christian nation ?

but we are a nation of Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, Wiccas, Agnostics, Buddhist and even non-believers , ect.

your argument has no point other than to try to claim for the "minority" (1/2 of 1%) what America actually is... if you want to go that route then we can let the "majority" define what America means to them.

I gravitate to the majority myself

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


All am I I am All !

except for any type of higher-power of course...

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

your argument has no point other than to try to claim for the "minority" (1/2 of 1%) what America actually is...

My argument has nothing whatsoever to do with majority or minority. It has to do with the conspicuous lack of christianity in the documents which created and form our country. They are, in fact, completely devoid of christianity.

This demonstrates that your claim:

the principals and ideals which founded this Nation (United States) are indeed of Protestant Christian origin. Reflected by the very drafting of the Constitution itself (it is where the ideals of the Constitution came from, the Bible)

is incorrect

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


actually it is not incorrect, if one would only read and understand that part of history which brought the settlers to this land.

thankfully there are those who know just what it means to be American... am I a democrat ? "on some issues" am I a republican ? "on some issues" am I a liberal ? "on some issues" am I a conservative ? "on some issues... Unfortunately for some they have no idea, instead they choose a single disposition which is usually always not flexible, real Americans are flexible.

I do not know what to say to you about you feeling I am coming off as emotional, maybe it is actually because you can "feel" that which I type ? in contrast to your hollow meaningless empty words...

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Might want to really did much deeper into symbols and signs.

Heres a good place to start, but it may offend your sensibilities, your version of reality, unless you think these things are okay!

remnantradio.org...&%20Witchcraft/pentagram.htm

reply to post by LanMan54


no it's cool, I'll check it out also...

I am into certain symbols and signs myself, mainly the ones I see all around me because I live in Virginia, all of our schools and landmark statues ect, all contain symbolism of our founding fathers... it is so hard to avoid I decided to do some research into these folks venerated all over my state and in many many others.

the link is broken...

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


hey what happened here... do I sense defeat ?

America and all of Western Civilization, it core values and it's beliefs and even alot of their founding documents have indeed been establish via the Greeks and Judeo-Christian philosophy...

In our country, "Judeo-Christian values" is shorthand for a complex idea: the common culture of the American majority. The values are called Judeo-Christian because they derive from the complementary ideas of free will, the moral accountability of the individual rather than the group, the spiritual imperative of imperfect man's struggle to do what is right and the existence of true moral law in the teachings of Christ and the Jewish prophets. Along with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, they are the political and cultural heritage of the Founding Fathers. The Declaration and the Constitution define the source and the limits of state power. But they do not tell us how a moral life within this society should be led. While they have provided a durable structure for America's success, only Judeo-Christian values, freely held by the majority, explain its continuing realization. These values are not identical with the Christian religion, although they manifest its universal insights. Americans, as the Founding Fathers hoped, uphold the Constitution, but live according to "Judeo-Christian values"

en.wikipedia.org...

no I have never claimed that America is solely "just" a Christian nation anymore, but I have used Obama's exact words and provided video evidence which contradicts and proves that you are only unaware of histories fact and truths.

we are a Nation of Multiculturalism and we have been birthed by the struggles of our Greek & Judeo Christian history.

tyvm

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Atheist's make up 2-5% the population, get over it. No matter how many times you whine or cry all your going to do is ensure a future that is very undesirable for people like you. Sooner or later you atheist's will no longer be able to file your lawsuits in secret anymore.

And atheist's wonder why fewer and fewer people are willing to tolerate them.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


i'm with you on the premise, just please don't quote mr. b. obama along side great americans. it demeans the entire post.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

hey what happened here... do I sense defeat ?

Hardly
I'm waiting for you to finally support your claim

Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Atheist's make up 2-5% the population, get over it. No matter how many times you whine or cry all your going to do is ensure a future that is very undesirable for people like you. Sooner or later you atheist's will no longer be able to file your lawsuits in secret anymore.

And atheist's wonder why fewer and fewer people are willing to tolerate them.

Can you refute the fact that America is not a christian nation or does your entire argument rest on a straw man against atheists and atheism?

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

i'm with you on the premise, just please don't quote mr. b. obama along side great americans. it demeans the entire post.

I've received more complaints over that single quote. Believe me, I am no fan of Obama. It just so happens that he was the most recent president to illuminate the point.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

hey what happened here... do I sense defeat ?

Hardly
I'm waiting for you to finally support your claim

fail

this topic is only 7 pages long, you are more than welcome to go back through it and post exactly what my claims are if you like ? (not that I have not already done this for you several times in this topic)

you have used the words of the current potus in your opening post in a twisted and non-informed way, you claim that America is no longer Christian nation or any other type of theistic nation, and I only claim exactly what the potus Obama has said, that we are alteast not "just" but we are also a nation of Muslims, Jews, Hindu's, Buddhist and non-believers.

maybe you did not listen to his words closely enough ? Obama, since you choose to twist his words seemingly into your own personal favor used the word "just" and followed with "we are also"

I only blame the attention span of the professed atheists whom can not listen closely enough even to words spoken by others, but opt instead to believe in their own version of "truth" such as it is with their absolute minority belief and adamant pursuance that there is no God... mainly the Christian God, it is only these simple and basic skills of understanding dialogue which some are lacking.

Instead in your opening post you try to claim for yourself that America is a nation solely of non-believers such as you ?

here let me post your misconception again for you... it is in your opening post.

"One of the great strengths of the United States, is ... we have a very large Christian population -- we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation (or) a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. "
Barack Obama, April 2009

would you like to go back and watch the video of his actual words ?

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
fail

this topic is only 7 pages long, you are more than welcome to go back through it and post exactly what my claims are if you like ? (not that I have not already done this for you several times in this topic)

I just did above and will do it again:

the principals and ideals which founded this Nation (United States) are indeed of Protestant Christian origin. Reflected by the very drafting of the Constitution itself (it is where the ideals of the Constitution came from, the Bible)

So far you've posted a quote of unsupported claims from a guy who made wildly incorrect statements, made the argument from popularity and posted a Wikipedia page on the phrase "Judeo-Christian". None of these things support your above-quoted claim. Fail indeed.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Atheist's make up 2-5% the population, get over it. No matter how many times you whine or cry all your going to do is ensure a future that is very undesirable for people like you. Sooner or later you atheist's will no longer be able to file your lawsuits in secret anymore.

And atheist's wonder why fewer and fewer people are willing to tolerate them.

Can you refute the fact that America is not a christian nation or does your entire argument rest on a straw man against atheists and atheism?

the poster is not... he is only asking you where you get your personal belief that America is not multicultural.

multicultural does not mean atheists, it only means "just" what the current potus has said in his speech which you mistook and take for granted.

the facts are, your belief system is in minority around the globe, as it is and from those only whom have been documented there is 92% of the current population of the Earth (that is the planet we live on btw) that is theistic, and 8% that is not, which includes China and all the other landmasses on earth.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
fail

this topic is only 7 pages long, you are more than welcome to go back through it and post exactly what my claims are if you like ? (not that I have not already done this for you several times in this topic)

I just did above and will do it again:

then let us again submit ourselves to the debate over Obama's words which you have used in an unjust manner in you opening post, and let us watch the video of him speaking his actual words shall we ?

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

the poster is not... he is only asking you where you get your personal belief that America is not multicultural.

I don't have such a belief nor have made any such claim.
His argument is a straw man and has nothing to do with the topic

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

then let us again submit ourselves to the debate over Obama's words which you have used in an unjust manner in you opening post, and let us watch the video of him speaking his actual words shall we ?

Those were his actual words. Sorry that you source them to a video where he says something else.

I don't care what Obama says anyway. His speeches don't change the fact that America is not a christian nation.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


for indeed if you do not know that all of "western culture" is founded on the Greek and Judeo-Christian philosophies, and I have posted links for you supporting this which is quite evident.

all from the library of congress and some from wiki

I guess you are still hearing only what you want to hear ? or read for that matter...

In our country, "Judeo-Christian values" is shorthand for a complex idea: the common culture of the American majority. The values are called Judeo-Christian because they derive from the complementary ideas of free will, the moral accountability of the individual rather than the group, the spiritual imperative of imperfect man's struggle to do what is right and the existence of true moral law in the teachings of Christ and the Jewish prophets. Along with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, they are the political and cultural heritage of the Founding Fathers. The Declaration and the Constitution define the source and the limits of state power. But they do not tell us how a moral life within this society should be led. While they have provided a durable structure for America's success, only Judeo-Christian values, freely held by the majority, explain its continuing realization. These values are not identical with the Christian religion, although they manifest its universal insights. Americans, as the Founding Fathers hoped, uphold the Constitution, but live according to "Judeo-Christian values"

en.wikipedia.org...