new member, hi....130,000 y/o tools found predating modern man used for sea travel!

ca.news.yahoo.com...

wow, homo erectus having the cognitave abilities for sea travel just blows my mind. 130.000 years ago i thought they were still OOO, OOO, grunting around fire.
funny, some of the comments under the report try to debunk this saying they are rock shards that fell from the cave ceiling. i dont know. possible due to the constant earthquake tremors near greece.
also may put to rest the thinking that says all ancestors came from africa. very interesting.

what are your conclusions?

Well that is a doosey.. will be interesting to see if this is accepted or not. It will probably over looked and scientists will say that the dating is off, but what if it's not?

This is really an amazing find, it could be one of the most important finds of the coming decade if the dating is true. They are saying in this article that the earliest evidence of sea voyage is 60,000 BC so this pushes it back twice that! AND 100,000 years before the first evidence of sea voyage in the Mediterranean, very very impressive find.

If people could sail to islands in Greece 100,000 years ago i am almost 100% positive now that ancient humans sailed to America. There is no way they did not before Columbus. I have a feeling humans have been sailing large ships for atleast 5000+ years, if not around 10,000.

THIS IS HUGE. HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes, if the dating is correct. the article didnt say "carbon testing" but that the scientists "Say" 130,000 y/o. so i dont know

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


Wait a minute, didnt they say the date is between 130,000 and 700,000.

Forgive me if that seems a bit silly to me. Thats a big gap in possibility. Are they suggesting that mankind has been sailing around in boats as far back as 700,000 years? Because that not only changes everything. It turns it all upside down and makes it wear a dress.

This is fantastic as it supports my belief that we have been for for a very...very long time.

From the "what the anthropologists/archaeologists know" side of the field:

It's interesting and yes, that's a typical knapped tool (knife, apparently.) Homo erectus DID use stone tools and somewhere there's actually a "factory'" where a bunch of them sat down and knapped out stone cores at a site ... lots and lots (possibly generations) of cores.

A stone core is a rock with the 'bits too small to make good stone tools' chipped off of it. It's sort of smoothed out, some of the waste material is gone, so they could hammer it and crack out a good knife or spearhead pretty quickly.

The date is interesting -- and depending on how they found it, it will probably be accepted.

Hominids were... and are (we're hominids) quite intelligent. It's not sure how early language developed, but no one in academic circles would be surprised by proof of Neanderthal language (probably the only way to get that would be time travel) or even language of some form in homo erectus. We see some evidence of beliefs (a ritualized burial (people buried on their sides, for instance, or with flowers/meat as grave goods) well over 30,000 years ago.

Woven goods (blankets, baskets) in the New World (America) are over 20,000 years old.

So... it's interesting. The mode of travel may have been raft or dugout... very interesting, though. I hope the island turns up more material.

Originally posted by BeastMaster2012
If people could sail to islands in Greece 100,000 years ago i am almost 100% positive now that ancient humans sailed to America.

The total distance they traveled was 40 miles. That's a LOT different than 2,000 miles.

The evidence of ancient humans in America goes back to 20,000 years...vague but unsupported evidence says 30,000 years. That's still being debated, but there's general academic support for 20,000 years (with a few hold outs.)

Does anyone know how they test these tools to see how old they are? Is it possible to have natural rock formations that look the same as these tools? Because I have seen some pretty weird looking rocks.

reply to post by Equinox99

Does anyone know how they test these tools to see how old they are? Is it possible to have natural rock formations that look the same as these tools? Because I have seen some pretty weird looking rocks.

The tools can be dated by several methods combined. Homo Erectus and Heidebergensis used different styles of stone tools to either Neanderthal or us Sapiens Sapiens that are recognisable to trained eyes. The location of the tools can be used to gain insight into age; for example the layer they were found in and surrounding waste. In this case, they've carbon-dated parts of the location to arrive at a period of ~50 000ya with the tools being found in an earlier level. This means that they are 'at least' 50 000ya. They've then used elevation of the rock formation and taken into account sea-levels to have an 'earliest' date of 130000ya. So the tools shouldn't be any older than 130000ya or younger than 50 000ya.

There's an argument about stone tools that have been naturally formed that's on-going in North America. It's the debate between 'geofacts' and 'artefacts.' Several sites in NA appear to show evidence of habitation in terms of hearths (firebeds) and stone tools at depths and locations they shouldn't be. Topper site is one borderline site. Let's say a couple of stone tools are discovered in a layer that can be dated to 25 000ya and people weren't there until 15000ya? Well one side would call the stone objects man-made 'artefacts' and the other would call the objects naturally-formed 'geofacts.'

It's a very interesting discussion for all that I can keep up with it!

Topper Site Wiki

jim marrs pointed out that they found tools hundreds of thousands of years old. the 'history' of mankind is fake. they do not tell us what really happened.

i was watching this show on the documentary channel, and rockfeller funded a 'restoration' of some pyramid in egypt and they went in there and flooded the walls with acid, 'restoring' the walls to nothing.

basically, there was some kind of information on the walls, maybe some technology, the elitists wanted, so they got it, and then they acid washed the walls, so no one else could have it.

think about it, the news is ALL a scam now. no one reports the news, they 'report' the 'report' from the top. they just relay the message the ELITISTS sent out in the first place.

so if they are lying now, why would they just start now? they have been lying forever.

reply to post by dantanna

i was watching this show on the documentary channel, and rockfeller funded a 'restoration' of some pyramid in egypt and they went in there and flooded the walls with acid, 'restoring' the walls to nothing.

basically, there was some kind of information on the walls, maybe some technology, the elitists wanted, so they got it, and then they acid washed the walls, so no one else could have it.

Really?

That kind of documentary evidence of TPTB destroying 'some pyramid in egypt' with acid must be on YT somewhere.

reply to post by Byrd


Yes, the main difference being they would be able to 'see' their destination before they even started sailing. I highly doubt the early humans would have gone out on a possible endless sea voyage. Line of sight only.

You can see for about 80 miles on a clear day and I'm willing to bet all early settlement was capable with land bridges and floating on rafts between points like Byrd has mentioned.

Human beings are unstoppable.


-G

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


It shouldnt really suprise anyone that Homo Erectus was able to cross to the islands of the mediteranian sea, homo e crossed the shark infested waters the lombok straight to eastern indonesia .

why i think they could have crossed the atlantic at a very early age (before 3000 BC) is because the route via iceland to greenland to america would be pretty easy. If the sea levels were much lower 10,000+ years ago, the distance between the lands would be under 250 miles.

Leaving scotland to-
Shetland island - 50 miles
Cross to Faroe island - 185 miles
Cross to Iceland - 258 miles
to Greenland - 188 miles
Follow the coast of greenland for miles
Greenland to Canada 200 miles

So that is around 800 miles of open water. Not too bad. Sailing from Freetown, Africa to Brazil is 1800 miles.

My point is that sailing to this island 50 miles off greece over 100,000 years ago probably was not a one time event. This was probably happening all over the place and there could have been a civilization that far back that could have been sailing.

Anyways the whole model of out of Africa around 60,000 years ago is now false it seems. We don't know anything about our early ancestors.