It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Um, they need better writers? Don't know, never made it through an entire episode of either.
That is different than what is going on here. This is expanding a tiny element in a developed story, and sliding in completely different elements. It would be like Hermine showing up in a Star Wars movie carrying Harry Potter's baby.
Have you read the Mabigonion? Do you know what I am talking about? You might want to add a little weight to your reading material.
In sum: by Chretien's time, c. 1160-1190, there was a floating body of Celtic lore available in French, both in oral and in written form, from which the poets of the age were deriving the matiere of those masterworks of poetic romance that stand at the headwaters of our modern creative tradition. Back of all lay Celtic myth. Next, as a consequence of historic crises, new names and personalities - Arthur, Gawain, Tristan, Mark, et cetera - became the focal centers around which a new folk tradition developed, renewing the timeless archetypes of old: the well-known Celtic mythic and legendary patterns of hero birth and death, tragic loves and magical deeds. The composition of these folk materials into masterful oral epics followed, as the work of professional fabulators - some, no doubt, in the cottages of the peasantry, others, we know, in the palace halls of kings. Presently, c. 1150, written version began appearing and what is known as the "history of literature" began - almost chemically, on every hand simultaneously, with inspired authors at work on identical themes: everywhere the same matiere, but in each case a different san
Why did the authors of the Bible change and add otherwise unrelated elements of Sumerian and Babylonian stories to their narrative?
I am not interested in defining your reading habits. The Mabigonion happens to be a critical part of this discussion. If you want to participate in this discussion, you should familiarize yourself with the work.
What I am pointing out here is that the whole Grail story slapped into the Arthurian tales is like the lead guitarist doing the solo in the key of G when the song is written in the key of D. Capice?
No. not "an illigitimate theft of intellectual insight", but a legitimate attempt to hide the original story.
That British writers
would prefer the French version where King Arthur's greatest knight is a French man who is sleeping with his wife is even stranger.
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by queenannie38
I didn't know that ancestory.com had access to records that go back that far. I wonder where their sources come from.
Does anyone know how far back the Census goes in Britain?
I know my family tree was traced back through county records of births, and online communications. A quick search brings up wiki which puts a start of 1801, and these is mention of a census taken as early as the 7th century.
At a certain point, most of this information must have came from an oral tradition.
While the scope of Perceval, or the History of the Grail is broad enough to encompass the entire medieval world view, it is riddled with difficulties and inconsistencies. Chretien himself claimed that he was merely reworking the material that he had found in an old manuscript. Perhaps the marvels and strange doings of his Celtic original simply proved too much for Chretien's more down to earth approach. At any rate, his version ends after Gawain's adventure of the Perilous Bed.
Perceval's early life echoes the boyhoods of the great Celtic Solar Heroes Culchuin and Finn. His entry to the great hall of Camelot is taken from the tale of Kulwich in the Welsh Mabinogion.
Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
This was all delved deeply into by Waite about 100 years ago, in his excellent book "The Hidden Church of the Holy Graal: Its Legends and Symbolism" which you should probably read if you want to consider yourself informed on the matter.
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by HattoriHanzou
Yes, that seems to be a big part of why the Grail was inserted into the Arthurian tales. I just wonder if there isn't another better concealed reason, like maybe Christ was taught by the Druids?
I have to wonder what Arthurian tales were completely lost or destroyed.
Originally posted by poet1b
There is even a religion based on the belief that Mary Magdalena traveled to Briton. Of course there is the popularity of the Da Vinci Code, and the book it was based upon and all the tales of the Knights Templar.
Pierre Plantard, the central character of the Rennes le Chateau mystery and supposed head of the ancient Order, the Prieure of Sion, is reported to have transferred a “large quantity of gold to Switzerland in 1952.”  Despite claims that the Priory of Sion has a 1000-year history dating back to the Order of warrior knights, the Knights Templar - chartered in 1151 - it only surfaced in 1956. It is said that the founding of the Priory of Sion was an artful ploy by Charles de Gaulle to conceal the true activities that were taking place in France at that time. These had more to do with laundering suspect gold bullion and political intrigue than ancient treasure, religious cults or biblical bloodlines. The latter were an accrual of old myths and legends cobbled together to form a diversionary cover story www.deepblacklies.co.uk...