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The conspiracy of the false legend of the Grail

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posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench
If Christ could see what has happened to his bloodline, he would roll over in his grave.


No can do, Dude. Christ is arisen.
(not sure who I'm making fun of here...likely myself)




posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by Student X
reply to post by poet1b
 


I strongly recommend you listen to rnaa. He is right, you are wrong. I see the same sort of mistakes in many conspiracy theorists. You guys just don't understand the true nature of myth or mysticism and so you don't see how they can take your paranoia and weave a reality tunnel out of it that traps you like a fly in a web.

I recommend that you give up conspiracy theories to study Campbell, Jung, Armstrong, and others. There are no "conspiracies" in esoterica and myth and legends. There are only archetypes of the collective unconscious and their dynamics and symbolic manifestations. Stick to conspiracies in politics and business where the unenlightened and the greedy reign supreme.

edit on 20-1-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)


The esoteric tradition is more than archetypes and Polti plots, and does indeed contain a legion of influences both obvious and hidden. Of course it's possible to see monsters in the dark, but beyond that there are also very real factors that are not attributable to the explanations proffered in books such as The Golden Bough. The hero's journey is an obvious archetype, but to suggest that it is merely a rehash of a rehash of a rehash, with no actual meaning, is to deny the existence of myth and the need to study it, and to spit on Campbell's grave.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by HattoriHanzou
 


?

Frazer was an enthocentric asshole, and I made no such suggestion about the Hero's journey. I would never deny the existence of myth and the need to study it, nor would I spit on Campbell's grave.

edit on 20-1-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Student X
reply to post by HattoriHanzou
 


?

Frazer was an enthocentric asshole, and I made no such suggestion about the Hero's journey. I would never deny the existence of myth and the need to study it, nor would I spit on Campbell's grave.

edit on 20-1-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)


So why the dig on conspiracies then? Influencing the mythology of a group of people is a very excellent way to gain power over them, by causing them to believe what you wish them to. Look at the Christ myth, and see the power wielded by its creators and modifiers over time. There's a big conspiracy for you, wrapped up in a cloak of myth.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Student X
reply to post by HattoriHanzou
 

?
Frazer was an enthocentric asshole...

I'd say that your choice of language affects your credibility.
edit on 20-1-2011 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Have you read Frazer? His loathing drips from the pages. Sorry if you have a personal problem with the a-word but its just a word and it pretty well describes how I feel about him and thats why I chose it. I don't think its very fair of you to figure that people who use the a-word are somehow less credible than those who don't.

edit on 20-1-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Student X
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Have you read Frazer? His loathing drips from the pages. Sorry if you have a personal problem with the a-word but its just a word and it pretty well describes how I feel about him and thats why I chose it. I don't think its very fair of you to figure that people who use the a-word are somehow less credible than those who don't.


We like to keep a certain tone about the site...and I'm not above a mild expletive myself, but the language cheapens your argument and if you have ever visited any of the unmoderated sites, you can see why standards matter.

Mods are gonna chop all of this out anyway, but facts is facts. Peace



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Tone is one thing, credibility is another. Please don't conflate them.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by Student X
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 

Tone is one thing, credibility is another. Please don't conflate them.

On the other hand, the vulgarity demonstrates a disrespect for the forum. You can make your point quite well without it.

I should think.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 




I am through discussing this with you. Lighten up.

edit on 20-1-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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as i see the legend of the Holy Grail, the Grail is the cup of life,love, wisdom and faith,
the sword is the keeper of peace, truth, justice, and word, for words cut both ways, a man's word at one time was all that was needed. now we have lost all that lies deceit, justice is no longer true justice, it is corporate self serving greedy, and quick to find one guilty law, not the way is was meant to be,
does anyone know real truth any more, for what we think is truth is not real truth but one's perception of truth, there is no peace as it should be, no wars no violence, no greed.
faith, wisdom, love, and life have all been polluted, raped and plundered, does one really know the act of, feeling of, or the reword of any of them... one can only seek and find, for no one man should have that all to him self but share.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by bekod
as i see the legend of the Holy Grail, the Grail is the cup of life,love, wisdom and faith,
the sword is the keeper of peace, truth, justice, and word, for words cut both ways, a man's word at one time was all that was needed. now we have lost all that lies deceit, justice is no longer true justice, it is corporate self serving greedy, and quick to find one guilty law, not the way is was meant to be,
does anyone know real truth any more, for what we think is truth is not real truth but one's perception of truth, there is no peace as it should be, no wars no violence, no greed.
faith, wisdom, love, and life have all been polluted, raped and plundered, does one really know the act of, feeling of, or the reword of any of them... one can only seek and find, for no one man should have that all to him self but share.


I had a very sad discussion with a person I respect very much lately, and this person was trying to convince me that something they knew was untrue (but wished was true) was actually the truth, even though we both knew it wasn't true. For somebody to even try this behavior is very disrespectful but our society has trained people to think that it's normal to change the truth into whatever you want it to be as long as it makes you feel good. A sad statement indeed on the state of things.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by bekod
a man's word at one time was all that was needed. now we have lost all that...


Not ALL lost yet
Chivalry and Honor live on in certain quarters. I have seen grown men in tears when receiving their Knighthood



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by autowrench
If Christ could see what has happened to his bloodline, he would roll over in his grave.


No can do, Dude. Christ is arisen.
(not sure who I'm making fun of here...likely myself)


See this link right here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
If he is "risen" as you say, what are his bones doing in a tomb then? And what about the 16 Crucified Saviors then? www.infidels.org... I guess Heaven is so full of Saviors there isn't room for anything else? Get your head of of the Bible and do some research on things, like the Origins of the Bible and Christianity. Educate yourself!
Here is a good starting place: www.fordham.edu...



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by autowrench
If Christ could see what has happened to his bloodline, he would roll over in his grave.

No can do, Dude. Christ is arisen.
(not sure who I'm making fun of here...likely myself)

See this link right here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
If he is "risen" as you say, what are his bones doing in a tomb then? And what about the 16 Crucified Saviors then? www.infidels.org... I guess Heaven is so full of Saviors there isn't room for anything else? Get your head of of the Bible and do some research on things, like the Origins of the Bible and Christianity. Educate yourself!
Here is a good starting place: www.fordham.edu...

Humour doesn't carry well in this format, does it? Or was that your little ironic touch in the first place?
You are preaching to the choir here.
edit on 20-1-2011 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Welcome to the thread Johnny. Thanks for the link, that is a new twist to the story.

There is much more to the twisting of these legends than I think anyone realizes.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Something I didn't mention earlier, that your post brings to mind, is that while there is no Grail in the original Welsh version of Peredur, there are three cups brought to the Empress of Constantinople by knights or men seeking to challenge Peredur.

The story of Peredur has numerous stories contained in the one tale. In one of these stories, Peredur goes to a tournament put on by the Empress of Constantinople, where he falls in love with the Empress. He defeats everyone in the tournament, sends all the men to the Empress as prisoners, and gives all the armor and horses to the Miller's wife as repayment for a loan. Like all the actions Peredur takes in his tale, this seems nonsensical. This might be an allegory, about the defeat of an army, giving of the booty to the commoners, and sending the prisoners captured back to the Empress who they serve.

The Empress then sends for the Knight of the Mill, which is Peredur. Once again, clearly something else is being said here. Skipping forward, on the second visit of Peredur to the Empress, a black man enters with a golden cup full of wine, kneels to the Empress, and asks her to only give the cup to the one who would fight him for her. Peredur asks for the cup and drinks the wine. The next day another black man bigger than the first brings a monster's claw shaped like a cup filled with wine, and the same events repeat. The third day an enormous man with red hair bigger than the first two brings a crystal cup filled with wine, and the same events are repeated again. Each time, Peredur gives these cups to the Miller's wife. The next day, Peredur kills all three men in battle at the same time.

Then when Peredur goes to the Empress, she reminds Peredur of when she gave him a stone that enabled him to defeat a monster, when he promised his love to her. He then spends 14 years with her.

What it sounds like is several battles followed by an arranged marriage. Each of the cups stands for some arrangement. Considering the emphasis on the Miller's wife, it sounds like trade agreements and land holding.

I believe every detail in this tale refers to something symbolically. Anyone here ever read the "White Goddess" by Graves? There is a guy who understood symbolism.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Hmm, so are we addressing Sir Zorgon? Do you know the queen?

I'll bet you would know where one could go to further investigate the origins of the Mabigonion, and the symbolism with it.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by Student X
 


Open up a bit and engage the brain. And try to stop embarrassing yourself.

When you change the symbolism in one of these ancient tales, you change the story. Just as the Grail stands for something much more than a cup, which is obvious to almost everyone, so does almost everything mentioned in these ancient tales, which is the part that most people miss.

Hopefully this helps.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
I am more interested in the Mabigonion.


WHOO HOOO Mail main just came... I now have a 1906 copy of the Mabigonion





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