When the US goverment will admit and apology for 9/11 ?

reply to post by xavi1000


Ever heard of the magazine "Popular Mechanics"?

You should check it out.

Originally posted by Carseller4
reply to post by xavi1000

 

Ever heard of the magazine "Popular Mechanics"?

You should check it out.

Yeah, it shows you how really retarded people who claim to be knowledgeable and competent can be.

The Empire State Building is 80 years old and yet everybody can't see how important the distribution of steel down a skyscraper has to be. And Richard Gage and his so called engineering buddies don't bring up the subject either. So people on both side are pretending this trivia is more complicated than it is.

Ryan Mackey has a 230 page "White Paper". It must be good since it is a WHITE paper.

www.jod911.com...

On page 27 he criticizes David Ray Griffin about claiming that steel is a good conductor of heat implying that it is not really very good because copper is so much better. But he says the the "specific heat" of steel is 50% higher than copper's so this adversely affects conduction because that depends on temperature differential. But Mackey does not tell the whole story. Mackey is actually losing the war to win a battle. Since steel has a higher "specific heat" that means it is more difficult to raise the temperature to the point of weakening. But THE QUANTITY OF STEEL is a factor in that also.

The specific heat of one pound of steel is the same as the specific heat of a ton of steel. But it will take 2000 times as much energy to raise the temperature of the ton than the pound. But this brings us back to out lack of information the amount of steel.

The plane hit the south tower at the 81st level. That level had to have enough steel to support another 29 levels. So how could that much steel weaken in less than an hour and yet Mackey wants to make a big deal of the specific heat of steel. He only presents the side of the argument that makes him look good but the flip side of that same coin makes him look really stupid. Apply that specific heat to the total amount of steel and you have to wonder how it could give way in an hour but Mackey never wants to bring up the quantity of steel. And Mackey only mentions "specific heat" in that one instance.

So why don't all of the physicists want to know the tons of steel that were on every level of the towers and haven't been asking for TEN YEARS? What did Popular Mechanics say about it? Shouldn't the NIST be aware of such simple stuff?

psik

reply to post by psikeyhackr

Shouldn't the NIST be aware of such simple stuff?

Yes, thats why its in the report. You should read the report one time, some really neat stuff in there.

Originally posted by HexagonSun
They'll probably apologise in about 50 years when all the people who were actually responsible for it are dead. It will be water under the bridge then, and everyone can just move on and forget about it. They won't have the guts to do it until all who were directly involved are long gone.

Is this the same type of "probably" the conspiracy theorists used when they said the gov't would "probably" settle with April Gallop when she sued the gov't on the grounds that no plane hit the Pentagon? You know she was slammed with a $15,000 penalty for wastign everyone's time with these fantasies, right?

Here's the question that really needs to be asked- when will you conspiracy people admit you're making stuff up as you go along and apologize for needlessly slandering Silverstein, Ted Olson, Marvin Bush, NYC firefighters, NIST engineers, and everyone else you've accused of being secret gov't disinformation agents in order to keep your conspiracy stories alive. McClatchey said in one interview that crackpots keep calling her up and accusing her of being involved in sinister secret coverups...and all she did was take a photo of smoke in the distance.

Apologize? For what?

Prove beyond a doubt that the government did it and then we'll talk...but not until then. And I don't care how many threads you link to here (trust me I've seen them all)...there is no DEFINITIVE proof.

And why should they apologize as a whole? They all wouldn't have been in on it. Just like the current government was not responsible for slavery. Why apologize for something you had nothing to do with.

Never. When will they appoligize for the fake moon landings, gulf oil spill, libya, all the middle east, jfk, jfk jr. MLK. Lying about Osama and who he really is? When will they tell us about Obama and his true identity.


We will never hear the truth from the Media or the Elite we see before us. The only way they would appoligize is to remind us they can do whatever they want and there is nothing we can do about it.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Shouldn't the NIST be aware of such simple stuff?

Yes, thats why its in the report. You should read the report one time, some really neat stuff in there.

Yeah, they admit in THREE PLACES that the distribution of weight is important ot analyzing the impacts and then they don't do it.

But they put that in a sub-report about analyzing suspended ceilings. But the only witness I ever heard talk about the ceiling falling was in the basement. That is pretty damn curious.

www.youtube.com...

So how could an impact 80 stories above make ceiling lights fall in the basement but not anywhere else to be witnessed and reported by survivors?

psik

reply to post by psikeyhackr

Yeah, they admit in THREE PLACES that the distribution of weight is important ot analyzing the impacts and then they don't do it.

Did you actually read the report?

But they put that in a sub-report about analyzing suspended ceilings. But the only witness I ever heard talk about the ceiling falling was in the basement. That is pretty damn curious.

Why? Considering everything people who were in the buildings that day went through I would be suprised if it was of any concern to anyone.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Yeah, they admit in THREE PLACES that the distribution of weight is important ot analyzing the impacts and then they don't do it.

Did you actually read the report?

But they put that in a sub-report about analyzing suspended ceilings. But the only witness I ever heard talk about the ceiling falling was in the basement. That is pretty damn curious.

Why? Considering everything people who were in the buildings that day went through I would be suprised if it was of any concern to anyone.

If a piece of ceiling comes down and hits you in the head you probably are not going to forget it. But I have run cabling through suspended ceilings often enough to know that pieces could hit people without doing much damage.

I have admitted many times that I have not read all 10,000 pages. I have probably never read more than 20 pages in sequence. But with all of the different searches I have done on various words and phrases I may have read as many as 400 pages total.

How much of it have you read?

I conclude the NCSTAR1 report is a SNOW JOB with occasional important information but mostly it exists to mislead and confuse. It doesn't provide a layout for the horizontal beams in the core. It doesn't say how many different weights of perimeter panels there were and the quantity of each weight though it has the total weight of all of the panels. It has the tons of luggage in the planes and the angles of impact. Not the tons of steel and tons of concrete that were on each and every level.

psik

never!!! because they feel they are protecting the institution with this kind of nonsense. and they care way more about the institution of government over the country.

reply to post by psikeyhackr

If a piece of ceiling comes down and hits you in the head you probably are not going to forget it.

Yes, you're right. If that's the only thing that happens to you that day at the office. But in consideration of the events of that day, if a chunk of ceiling panel tapped your head as you were running for the exit and then watched 1000's of persons die in building collapse, I don't think its going to make the list.

But I have run cabling through suspended ceilings often enough to know that pieces could hit people without doing much damage.

Agreed. Most paneling is pretty light.

I have admitted many times that I have not read all 10,000 pages. I have probably never read more than 20 pages in sequence. But with all of the different searches I have done on various words and phrases I may have read as many as 400 pages total.

Well, its been what 5 years now? Think maybe you should sit down and read the whole thing before making anymore claims?

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

If a piece of ceiling comes down and hits you in the head you probably are not going to forget it.

Yes, you're right. If that's the only thing that happens to you that day at the office. But in consideration of the events of that day, if a chunk of ceiling panel tapped your head as you were running for the exit and then watched 1000's of persons die in building collapse, I don't think its going to make the list.

This.

As someone who has been in a life-and-death situation, I found it surprising which details stuck with me.

Originally posted by roboe

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

If a piece of ceiling comes down and hits you in the head you probably are not going to forget it.

Yes, you're right. If that's the only thing that happens to you that day at the office. But in consideration of the events of that day, if a chunk of ceiling panel tapped your head as you were running for the exit and then watched 1000's of persons die in building collapse, I don't think its going to make the list.

This.

As someone who has been in a life-and-death situation, I found it surprising which details stuck with me.

edit on 8-7-2011 by roboe because: clarification

My point was that THE ONLY PERSON that I have seen say anything about stuff falling from the ceiling was IN THE BASEMENT.

He managed to not forget with all of the other stuff going on.

psik

reply to post by psikeyhackr

My point was that THE ONLY PERSON that I have seen say anything about stuff falling from the ceiling was IN THE BASEMENT.

He managed to not forget with all of the other stuff going on.

And?

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

My point was that THE ONLY PERSON that I have seen say anything about stuff falling from the ceiling was IN THE BASEMENT.

He managed to not forget with all of the other stuff going on.

And?

So why did the NIST produce this report?

NIST NCSTAR 1-5D
Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the
World Trade Center Disaster
Reaction of Ceiling Tile Systems to Shocks

I haven't found anything in it reporting ceiling components falling in the WTC. But they do EARTHQUAKE TESTS.

The only witness I have seen talking about stuff falling from the ceiling was in the basement.

I guess they had to do something to bill $20,000,000 for.

psik

Prior to the 'when everyone who was involved is dead' theory is when they have to to save their skins.
For example when they have lost the revolution and they are on trial for crimes against humanity.

They are not sorry for what they have done, they are sorry that they got caught.
Too many people still believe the official story. In their mind they got away with it.

Originally posted by psikeyhackr

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

My point was that THE ONLY PERSON that I have seen say anything about stuff falling from the ceiling was IN THE BASEMENT.

He managed to not forget with all of the other stuff going on.

And?

So why did the NIST produce this report?

NIST NCSTAR 1-5D
Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the
World Trade Center Disaster
Reaction of Ceiling Tile Systems to Shocks

I haven't found anything in it reporting ceiling components falling in the WTC. But they do EARTHQUAKE TESTS.

The only witness I have seen talking about stuff falling from the ceiling was in the basement.

I guess they had to do something to bill $20,000,000 for.

psik

Well, if your read the report it says in there that occupants report falling ceiling tiles, just because you could only find one thing on the internet doesn't mean anything. The purpose of the report was to determine what it would take to knock the tiles loose or down, outside of the impact zone. The ceiling tiles are part of the fire rating system and when they're not in place the fire rating is reduced. What's the mystery? Perfectly legitimate line of inquiry and I doubt if consumed all $20,000,000.

Originally posted by hooper
Well, if your read the report it says in there that occupants report falling ceiling tiles, just because you could only find one thing on the internet doesn't mean anything. The purpose of the report was to determine what it would take to knock the tiles loose or down, outside of the impact zone. The ceiling tiles are part of the fire rating system and when they're not in place the fire rating is reduced. What's the mystery? Perfectly legitimate line of inquiry and I doubt if consumed all $20,000,000.

Occupants of WHAT?

This is what the report says:

The Structural Engineering and Earthquake Simulation Laboratory (SEESL) staff of the State University
of New York at Buffalo performed the ceiling tile system tests. Mark Pitman, Technical Services
Manager, and Scot Weinreber, Laboratory Assistant, played pivotal roles in the development and
execution of these tests, and their support is gratefully acknowledged.

Armstrong World Industries (AWI) supplied the ceiling tile systems to SEESL. Thomas Fritz of AWI
provided significant contributions to the project, including information on the ceiling tile systems
installed in the World Trade Center buildings. Steven Newcomer and Barry Buhay of the Armstrong
Building Products Installation School did the lion’s share of the work in installing and repairing the
systems during the tests.

Where in the report does it say that an occupant of the WTC saw tiles falling from the ceilings in the towers?

Here is the report so anyone can search it:

www.fire.nist.gov...

psik

reply to post by psikeyhackr

Occupants of WHAT?

The World Trade Center buildings.

This is what the report says:

Well, I think the actual report is a little bit longer, but I know that you have a personal aversion to reading.

Where in the report does it say that an occupant of the WTC saw tiles falling from the ceilings in the towers?

Page xxix, paragraph three, fist sentence.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Where in the report does it say that an occupant of the WTC saw tiles falling from the ceilings in the towers?

Page xxix, paragraph three, fist sentence.

It says:

Occupants of the towers reported that the impact of the airplanes resulted in some dislodging of ceiling
tiles and damage to the suspension system, but descriptions of the magnitude and spatial extent of the
damage were neither quantitative nor comprehensive. Thus, additional information was needed in order
to estimate where the ceiling system was intact and where the heat from the fires might have impinged
unabated on the floor joist assemblies.

Where does it say it fell down? If something FELL would you call it DISLODGED? Who talks like that?

On PDF page 101 in Fig 3-2 is that panel dislodged?

On PDF page 103 in Fig 3-7 they show a "dislodged" light fixture. The picture is from above and it is still in the ceiling.

On PDF page 105 in Fig 3-10 they call it "damage" but it did not fall.

On PDF page 105 in Fig 3-11 they call it "damage" and it is hanging down but still did not fall.

But none of those pictures are from the WTC.

You have NO EVIDENCE of ceiling components falling except the witness in the basement. We have a name for him and a report in his own words. So how could the plane make stuff fall from the ceiling in the basement...

psik