Seattle says no to Israeli war crimes advertisement.

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Wow - this is quite the thread.

Here is one point to consider. Their decision not to allow the signs may not have anything to do with support for Israel.

It may simply be if they allow it they also have to allow signs with opposing views. There was a thread here on ATS a little bit ago where city buses were kind of used as a sign war between Atheists and Christians.

Like if they let me put up a sign saying "Cake is the best - Pie is bad!!" they would pretty much have to let the evil pie-loving crowd have their sign too "Pie is good! Cake is the devil!" Then of course the cake crowd would have to come back - "Pie eaters are nasty!", etc...

So, what could possibly happen if they let the Israeli war crimes advertisement be placed and then let opposing ads be placed??

Well - just read back through the pages of this thread so far for your answer - plenty of flames and insults been tossed around by all sides. I can understand why a city wouldn't want advertisements similar to the posts in this thread going back and forth.

Civility and decorum...

Shall rule the day... Or my poo stained fingers on the shiny buttons will...

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The issue is whether interests can use money, influence, and threats to suppress information. In our society corporate, ngo, and governmental groups mold minds. They limit information, and are simply omit information they do not want the public to consider. In our times our opinions are severely limited by the lack of information. How can anyone have a rational opinion if they only have a portion of the related info? This is just one more example of this in practice. Like someone mentioned earlier, what if there were ads calling for the trial of gw bush for war crimes. There would be institutionalized efforts to have it removed. The worst part is that a large part of the population would cry out against it because they have only part of the information on the issue. This event should be one of countless other indicators of how the public mind is presented with a version of reality, and is unable to analyze it critically. Why is this? How is the public mind molded? What is the consequence of this molding?(iraq, tonkin, 911) What can we do to help counter the manufacturing of consent? The isreal/palestine issue is just an example of a greater problem in our society.

Originally posted by beezzer

The bombing of innocents, the indiscriminate bombing by Hamas into Israel, please let us illustrate how the "religion of peace is killing people on a daily basis.

you have been deceived.
2nd

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


How is it a HATE CRIME to speak out a governments actions? They didnt blame a race for hate crimes just the government of a state who is actually causing war crimes. Such cowards to take down the signs! But thats all this nation has anymore hehehe lets the immigrants run everything Bye Bye USA

In America, the government picks and chooses our enemies. We are not allowed to think on our own. An ad talking about Muslim terrorism would be perfectly allowable. An ad discussing American or izraeli crimes would not be permitted.

Slightly off topic here:

Look, izrael was created by the United Nations on top of an already existing nation, Palestine.

The maps say it all:



We are being told to accept a completely insane concept: the idea that the people of any nation can have their land confiscated and given to someone else.

And when the people of Palestine and that region rejected this insane idea, they are labeled as terrorists.

If the UN had tried to do this to the US or Germany or the UK or China or any other nation that has an organized military, they would be laughed at. They got away with it because Palestine and the Arabs were poorly trained and poorly equipped. It came down to might over right and it continues to be that way as demonstrated by Occupied Palestine ("OP") occupied Iraq, and occupied Afghanistan. The governments of the US and izrael continue to occupy and enslave simply because they can.

If I mug you on the street because I'm bigger than you or have a gun, its a crime. If a government does it on an international scale, its acceptable. WTF???

And dont give me this "Jews are God's chosen people" or make way for the Messiah BS. Everyone yells and screams about Islam shoving their religion on us, but when ours is shoved on them, they're supposed to STFU and like it???

The other BS line is, "we were there 5000 years ago". Who gives a fvck!!!??? My parents farm in TX has been in the family since my grandparents owned it 82 years ago. If an ancestor of an American Indian came to their door and said "this is the home and land of my ancestors, you have to get out". We'd tell him to get lost. Period.

In America, we wont even honor a 150 year old claim, but the Palestinians are supposed to leave because of a 5000 year old claim? WTF kinda insane BS is this???

Your map may say it all, but you need to go back a little further in history to get a truer picture.
Palestine was created as a colony of the Roman Empire out of the remnant of the homeland of the Jews, Israel around 2,000 years ago. This real estate changed hands many times, Romans, Byzantine, Islamic Jihad, Crusaders; then it became a province of the Ottoman/Turkish Empire until the 1st World War. The British took over according to League of Nations mandate. The Brits carved a disjointed land for the Jews after that.

reply to post by gladtobehere


do you have any idea how much land the israelis have taken from syria, i am uncertain but know that they have taken some, although i bet it is harder to find a map showing this.

reply to post by abovedalaw

Originally posted by abovedalaw
Your map may say it all, but you need to go back a little further in history to get a truer picture.
Palestine was created as a colony of the Roman Empire out of the remnant of the homeland of the Jews, Israel around 2,000 years ago. This real estate changed hands many times, Romans, Byzantine, Islamic Jihad, Crusaders; then it became a province of the Ottoman/Turkish Empire until the 1st World War. The British took over according to League of Nations mandate. The Brits carved a disjointed land for the Jews after that.

First off, going back 2000 years is pointless IMO. We dont discuss who occupied America 2000 years ago. They have no legitimate claim to the US as we know it now or as we know it in 1947. If in 1947, the UN tried to force the US to return land to American Indians, there would be armed resistance.

Yet this is exactly what happened in Palestine. Except the UN said that you have to return the land to people who lived there 5000 years ago...

But to your point of more recent history, regardless of the empires and governments which laid claim to Palestine and its borders, the people on that land were not relocated. Its not as though with every regime change, there was a giant broom that came and swept everyone away followed by new occupiers. The same people have a claim on that land for generations and in many cases are able to prove it. True, many were farmers and shepherds, but does that make their claim any less legitimate?

In every discussion leading up to the Palestinian land grab by the UN, there is only one reference used for that area and that is Palestine.

reply to post by gladtobehere


I think the map you showed would make a great advertisement on a bus.
I think it would open some minds.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


I just don't get it Are you an American? If so why are you not exposing the war crimes against us by our enemies? Instead you are trying to stand up for our enemies. Are you anti-American? IMO there are no rules in war.

reply to post by blangger

I just don't get it Are you an American? If so why are you not exposing the war crimes against us by our enemies? Instead you are trying to stand up for our enemies. Are you anti-American? IMO there are no rules in war.

I am not anti American, just thought I would clear that up for you.

The mainstream media portrays your "enemies" enough, there is no need for me to do so.

What are your thoughts on the the decision to not show the signs?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by blangger

 

I just don't get it Are you an American? If so why are you not exposing the war crimes against us by our enemies? Instead you are trying to stand up for our enemies. Are you anti-American? IMO there are no rules in war.

I am not anti American, just thought I would clear that up for you.

The mainstream media portrays your "enemies" enough, there is no need for me to do so.

What are your thoughts on the the decision to not show the signs?

Well I think Advertising is privatized and they have the right to refuse if. But if they want to walk around with signs and scream at the top of their lungs (what ever they want (without profanity)) then that would be free speech. IMO (remember I am biased) Anyone who is supporting Americas enemies (in any way) should be hung or at the least exiled. Definitely during times of war (IMO again).

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

I think the map you showed would make a great advertisement on a bus.
I think it would open some minds.

One would think. However, the izraelis are always portrayed as the victims, never the aggressors. NEVER. It doesnt matter how many people they kill, how much land they steal, how many homes they bulldoze, how many walls they build. This INSANE premise that the izraelis are the victims is shoved down our throats by a never ending stream of corporate media brain washing.

Thanks to the Internet, people have awoken up from their slumber and have an alternate source of information, which is exactly why they are moving to restrict the web.

reply to post by blangger


hang or exile the us military as they support an enemy of the us in a way.
www.guardian.co.uk...

This, I think was posted before but it is worth a mention again. The Israel-Palestine conflict is nearly impossible to solve simply because of unbreakable extremism on both sides. It's easy to lay the blame at one side, but there are two sides to every story, and in this case, no side is squeaky clean.
This is my two cents on the situation.

Originally posted by gladtobehere

The white parts remind me of a cancer..
Slowly eating the healthy green life..