Jesus (Yeshua) was a Jew, who died for a purpose..

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Had Christ resisted being put to death, he would have acted contrary to his own teachings of love and forgiveness.

Jesus neither loved nor forgave those in the temple.

This is why Constantine had to convert.

Constantine converted following the Battle of Milvian Bridge following a rather arbitrary "vision".

This is good my friend. How would you stop it without harming anyone else?

When you are willing to put your life on the line for all your fellow man, then you will know Christs message.

Which message? He had much to say. He claimed he was here to fulfill the law. This still goes back to my original point. Only a major sacrifice - in this case human sacrifice - was good enough for Jesus' Lord. I do not believe in human sacrifice, nor worshipping bloodthirsty gods. If this was the purpose of Jesus' death I disagree with it in every way.

To be totally honest. Jesus died because of what he believed in.

Jesus was killed by people who didn't share he's believes.

Pretty much what happens to people who rebel against authority to day as well. The authority wants the right to give us privileges. Privileges that we call rights.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Jesus neither loved nor forgave those in the temple.

Really?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Constantine converted following the Battle of Milvian Bridge following a rather arbitrary "vision".

This is a legend my friend, nothing more. Does Constantines actions reflect those of a convert?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Which message? He had much to say. He claimed he was here to fulfill the law. This still goes back to my original point. Only a major sacrifice - in this case human sacrifice - was good enough for Jesus' Lord. I do not believe in human sacrifice, nor worshipping bloodthirsty gods. If this was the purpose of Jesus' death I disagree with it in every way.

The message reflected in his life and death, not just the words. When you are dead and gone, others will be free to attribute many things to be said by you as well. What will others have to discern what is truth and what is false about what YOU said in this life?

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM
This is a legend my friend, nothing more. Does Constantines actions reflect those of a convert?

Legend is the stuff you made up about his conversion in the posts above.

The message reflected in his life and death, not just the words. When you are dead and gone, others will be free to attribute many things to be said by you as well. What will others have to discern what is truth and what is false about what YOU said in this life?

Though Jesus was radically merciful about some things (and said some abhorrent things as well), why does his self-sacrifice to a bloodthirsty god give them any more merit? The "golden rule" existed long before Jesus. Human sacrifice does not particularly elevate his message, save those who are impressed by martyrdom.

Well certainly intelligent folks can disagree about almost every aspect of this and quibble about virtually any dotted I or crossed T (and do). I think in any graduate level comparative religion course at a non-fundamentalist University you would hear: Jesus was a Jewish apocolypticist [who if here today may have been on ATS contributing to the 2012 threads ].

After his crucifixtion by the Roman authorities, his closest followers (all Jews) attempted to carry his message to other Jews. Contrary to popular conception, this met with some sucsess. This is unsurprising, since these early followers did not see themselves as starting a new religion but as simply Jews living in the end times. Paul took this message to the gentiles, calling Peter "the Apostle to the Jews" , this led to all kinds of problems with the Jerusalem church - founded by the Jewish followers of Jesus while he was alive and by his family - at least some of whom (we know) who were horrified by Paul's concept of Jesus' message equaling some kind of religion separate from Judaism. In fact, this is very well documented in the Acts of the Apostles (literally "scripture") and does not really need a lot of interpretation.

Paul goes out of his way to explain that he has his charge from his vision of risen Jesus and not from the Jerusalem living followers of Jesus or his family. A good (I would submit the"the best") explanation of this is because the Apostles were saying "We lived with Jesus, we knew him and he wouldn't agree with what you are saying about the Law" and Paul says basically "He told me to do this in my vision")

All this is to say : Yes Jesus was a Jewish person who saw himself as a Jew and within the context of Judaism. His closest earthly followers, even after they understood him to have raised for the dead, still understood him as an observant Jew. They even fought an otherwise Jesus-believer ally, (Paul) when he said Jesus says we don't have to follow Jewish law anymore.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Which message? He had much to say. He claimed he was here to fulfill the law. This still goes back to my original point. Only a major sacrifice - in this case human sacrifice - was good enough for Jesus' Lord. I do not believe in human sacrifice, nor worshipping bloodthirsty gods. If this was the purpose of Jesus' death I disagree with it in every way.

You see, but saw nothing. You hear, but heard nothing. You read, but comprehended nothing.

Still your heart for once and listen. That's where the real temple of our Creator resides in, not artificial man made pride contructs.

The Messiah HAD NEVER asked to be sacrificed. He, in his wisdom, knew that was the only end for his attempt to save humanity, jews and gentiles, by your idols -mortal pharasees. It was they that demanded human sacrifice, even as the roman governer baulked at such requests for the Messiah's supposed 'crime' for speaking out.

Still your heart and listen instead, I plead..

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Though Jesus was radically merciful about some things (and said some abhorrent things as well), why does his self-sacrifice to a bloodthirsty god give them any more merit? The "golden rule" existed long before Jesus. Human sacrifice does not particularly elevate his message, save those who are impressed by martyrdom.

Jesus did not sacrifice himself to a blood thirsty God my friend. I am uncertain where you get this idea from. Jesus saw God as love and forgiveness, which is why he taught love and forgiveness.

We seem to have a misunderstanding. What do you think was the lessons Jesus taught and how do you derive from those teachings that he followed a blood thirsty God?

With Love,

Your Brother

double post

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Jesus did not sacrifice himself to a blood thirsty God my friend. I am uncertain where you get this idea from. Jesus saw God as love and forgiveness, which is why he taught love and forgiveness.

The whole "Jesus died for our sins" thing.

We seem to have a misunderstanding. What do you think was the lessons Jesus taught and how do you derive from those teachings that he followed a blood thirsty God?

The "old testament" makes it very certain that the god character was bloodthirsty. Jesus taught many things. Some uncommonly merciful for the time, some things that were simply bad advice.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
You see, but saw nothing. You hear, but heard nothing. You read, but comprehended nothing.

Still your heart for once and listen. That's where the real temple of our Creator resides in, not artificial man made pride contructs.

Could you be any more condescending? I have read the same things you have only I didn't end up with the same interpretation as you. I am uninterested in your interpretations especially when delivered from such a high horse.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
The whole "Jesus died for our sins" thing.

I never claimed Jesus died for our sins. If anything, I would say Jesus died to show us how not to be sinful.

Judge not, Love all, be at peace.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
The "old testament" makes it very certain that the god character was bloodthirsty. Jesus taught many things. Some uncommonly merciful for the time, some things that were simply bad advice.

How so? Because man does terrible things to each other and then goes on to say it is because God told them to?
Because natural disasters happen and Man attributes it to an angry God because that is the only understanding they have of these things at the time? Do not place the folly of Man at Gods feet my friend. We are growing and understanding every day. If you cannot look at this beautiful existence, the bountiful planet, the wonders all around us and see that God loves us, I ask that you look again.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


I really like your answers here in this thread.

Warm Wishes and Blessings.

reply to post by NewAgeMan
The Two Faces of Jesus in the heart of the institutional crisis in the Church

Jesus was an anarco communist, in the left wing yeah

reply to post by NewAgeMan


See, he did not die, he ruled the roman empire from secret, which was expanded to include the whole world and is why the vatican is in rome. He was Julius Ceasers son .......J.C. His real name is not Jesus either. That is what is so funny about this world, so much lost information.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Which message? He had much to say. He claimed he was here to fulfill the law. This still goes back to my original point. Only a major sacrifice - in this case human sacrifice - was good enough for Jesus' Lord. I do not believe in human sacrifice, nor worshipping bloodthirsty gods. If this was the purpose of Jesus' death I disagree with it in every way.

You see, but saw nothing. You hear, but heard nothing. You read, but comprehended nothing.

Still your heart for once and listen. That's where the real temple of our Creator resides in, not artificial man made pride contructs.

The Messiah HAD NEVER asked to be sacrificed. He, in his wisdom, knew that was the only end for his attempt to save humanity, jews and gentiles, by your idols -mortal pharasees. It was they that demanded human sacrifice, even as the roman governer baulked at such requests for the Messiah's supposed 'crime' for speaking out.

Still your heart and listen instead, I plead..

There are so many interpretations of Scriptures, and most people run with the obvious wording or follow their ministers, or scholars leads. They don't understand that this was mainly a hijacked book to begin with, however there is real Spirit to be found, and of course in this duality school, 50/50, where words are but a frequency and vibration, and Light is in half of all these words, even if they are written in a harsh way, then Light can reach us direct and Father/Mother Creator/Family of Light can directly instruct us.

Which is the way they meant it to be. For the true seeker looks within, and contemplates, and then asks to be healed of their transgressions, lack of love and insight, and asks to be helped to understand. They empty their cup each day, and seek answers within. This was always meant.

So when I read most of my life Matthew 13; 10-16

Matthew 13
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

The average person assumes he is saying those who have more are given more and those with less will have even the amount they already possess taken from them, ie. some progress, some regress or lose out.

But again, is that what he is saying?

I always felt uncomfortable about this passage. Now I got it.

What I suddenly saw was some thing right out in plain sight. The message I got in both this and the parable of those who have more, will have more given and those who have less will have the little they do have taken away:

He is telling us, that ALL of us, are in the dark, in a dark world, reading spiritual insights, in darkness, seeking advice from spiritual leaders to interpret these scriptures, who are also wearing blinders. All are blind here, all are deaf here. That no book, no expert, can solve these riddles.

It takes going within and doing what he was hinting to everyone to do. Ask to be healed, and in the passage of the little taken away, he meant: to empty our cups each day from what we think we know, the distortions we are taught, and the political stripes, agendas, the ways of the world, the media around us, empty our cups each day and go within, and pray to Father/Mother and Family to help heal us and for us to truly see and to truly hear.

As we turn all things into positive and walk in the way Yeshua modeled, Love, Charity, Forgiveness, Renouncing the World, Service to Others, Kindness, we will become more and more light filled, our eyes will be filled with Light.

Then the scriptures won't even say the same words. Not another's post even.

I was reading a harsh post written in the past by someone who said erroneous things to me, but his energy was strong. And suddeny an entire message leapt out, words rearranged themselves and a completely opposite Spirit light message was available.

To see with more colors of the light spectrum, to raise our Frequency.

Its like an advanced course in transforming all negatives to postives, in seeking Creator and Famiily to heal us and assist us.

And in Yeshua we have the best example of Love. Budda was a seeker, he represented one who was seeking the way. Yeshua, was his Higher Self, already, he had found the way, and incarnated as Immanuel, Heaven or the Beyond and Family with us, to show us the way home. Which is physical ascension, or soul ascension. One day there will be a galactic ascension, the new creation.

Originally posted by Unity_99
One day there will be a galactic ascension, the new creation.

It comes quickly my sister, well done!



With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Whats there for me to say?

You already completely disagree with the fact that Judaism is completely incompatible with Jesus' core teachings.

And as for the 613 laws and the oral tradition. There was no 'forgetting'. An oral tradition simply means that the inner, esoteric knowledge was passed down from teacher to student, and not put into writing.

The 613 laws themselves are based on quite a deep concept. The basic 10 commandments are laws between G-d and man (the first 5) and man and man (the last 5). The rest of the 603 laws in Judaism have to do with obedience and submission to the divine will. The divine willl in kabbalistic context is Keter - the highest sphere. Keter means 'crown' and refers to the crown of the soul. In human faculties, Keter represents the power of will which transcends conscious understanding. It is superconscious, and as as such, the power to will is considered a particularly godly function. When man negates his own will for the divine will he unites the most internal aspect that man can know - G-ds will, and unites it with this physical world, malkuth which is seen as being removed from G-d. Because the universe is made up of two properties, the rational and irrational, the only way for man to overcome the limitations of the natural order (the name Elohim) is for him to overcome his own nature, and by doing so, draws down the name YHWH into this world, thus merging the infinite with the fnite, the limited with the miraculous. It all depends on human action.

So the intrinsic idea behind the 613 commandments is superrational. They really only apply to Jews, whereas non Jews have the basic 7 laws of noach to perform (which are more or less, the 10 commandments) all of which have a basic rational explanation.

This has been the point of Judaism from the very beginning and anyone who thinks differently probably has never studied the bible, and certainly hasnt done so in its original language (Hebrew).

There is thus only one logical explanation for the phenomena of christianity. The earlier enemies of the Jews - the greco-romans, hatched a sagacious plot to both trivialize and reinvent the Jewish religion, which they knew threatened their own socio-political goals.

People who dont understand this are generally people who have never read any rabbinic work and so have no clue what the attitude of the Jews are, and have obviously never read any of the greek classics - platos republic, hesiods theogany, homers illiad, etc. Because these works lay down in perfect crystal clear language how utterly opposed Greek thought is to Jewish thought. They are on two different sides of the spiritual spectrum. Their values are different, their lifestyles are different. The greeks with an insatiable imperialistic lust for power and more and more and progress ad infinitum. thats why it doesnt care that christianity is built on specious ground. It mutilated one religion (Judaism) and combined it with incompatiable aspects. And today its removing those Jewish garbs (those aspects) to return to its original pagan/dionysian foundations, which in anycase are unstable.

The greeks want to destroy the concept of memory, and the family unit, and defined roles for male and females, for a forgetfulness and rapture in the now, a 'collective assimilated' humanity with one identity, and a adrogynous transgendered culture based on cheap thrills and base motivations.

I've been writing prayers up, for the year 11 11 is nearly here, and I feel this is a major page turn in the coloring book or dvd, and that we are being given choices. With what light and eyesight are we seeing? Do we interpret with a light filled eye, or one in darkness? Do we really all follow a harsh, authoritative, unequal, pryamid structure, warring God who is extra strict and harsh, and do we see end times in a harsh destructive way, rather than transformation?

Dear Mother/Father Creator, please help me to empty my cup each day & unlearn what I think I know already & what this dark world teaches. I ask that You prompt me, inspire me to seek You and learn from my true Family of Light & Love only, allow my eyes to truly see, my ears to truly hear. Heal me so i can see more of the Light Spectrum, more colors of the rainbow than my eyes can see currently.

Thank you so much. In Yeshua's, Christ Jesus's Name I pray.

Warm Wishes. Peace. Love & Light!

reply to post by randyvs

And as do I. How do we know Christ is what the Bible says he is

.
You don't you just listen to what other men tell you to know

I start with knowing full well there must be a God

According to the god of the bibles there are many gods, how do you know which one is talking in your head ?

.If there is a God he must be powerful enough to to get a communicado to us

.

Well if he's real he's obviously a piss poor communicator but then one only has to read his alleged works to see that, perhaps he should have changed his name to Mohammed instead of jesus becuse when he says jump the muslims say how high.

Finding that communication shouldn't be hard. It would stand out from anything known to man. Well the Bible fits that bill one hundred times over.

Well according to almost every xtian that I've communicated with, apparently the bibles can't simply be read they need to be interpreted.for the reader.

Gods word can't have a bunch of crap in it .

Why not ? The bibles were written by men not a god .

So you're a literalist ?

Originally posted by dontreally
Whats there for me to say?

You already completely disagree with the fact that Judaism is completely incompatible with Jesus' core teachings.

I never said this my friend. Judaism is compatible with Christs teaching, but Christs teachings are incompatible with Judaism.

Christs Commandments of Love God and Love your neighbor is the essence of the Ten Commandments. If you do these two things, you will have done the Ten Commandments as well.

The 613 laws are man made codes to structure the society. Let those who wish to be bound by them be bound by them. Those who do not SHOULD be allowed to develop such codes as best suit them. This does not contradict neither the commandments of Jesus nor Moses.

Originally posted by dontreally
And as for the 613 laws and the oral tradition. There was no 'forgetting'. An oral tradition simply means that the inner, esoteric knowledge was passed down from teacher to student, and not put into writing.

I am an initiated Priest of the Afro Cuban religion of Palomayombe which derives from the Bantu tribes of the Congo, in Africa. It too is an Oral Tradition, so I am thoroughly familiar with the concept. It is an esoteric tradition as well. The laws are preserved and interpreted by the initiated or "elect". This creates a structure where few have claim to the divine wisdom over the many. While this may be a great system if you are the "initiated" or "elect", to those outside this small circle, the right to interpret the divine for themselves is restricted if not out right forbidden.

Every Man has a divine right to speak with its creator. There is no mystery hidden from them. All the mysteries of God are right before the eyes of Man.

Originally posted by dontreally
The 613 laws themselves are based on quite a deep concept. The basic 10 commandments are laws between G-d and man (the first 5) and man and man (the last 5). The rest of the 603 laws in Judaism have to do with obedience and submission to the divine will. The divine willl in kabbalistic context is Keter - the highest sphere. Keter means 'crown' and refers to the crown of the soul. In human faculties, Keter represents the power of will which transcends conscious understanding. It is superconscious, and as as such, the power to will is considered a particularly godly function. When man negates his own will for the divine will he unites the most internal aspect that man can know - G-ds will, and unites it with this physical world, malkuth which is seen as being removed from G-d. Because the universe is made up of two properties, the rational and irrational, the only way for man to overcome the limitations of the natural order (the name Elohim) is for him to overcome his own nature, and by doing so, draws down the name YHWH into this world, thus merging the infinite with the fnite, the limited with the miraculous. It all depends on human action.

How does one negate their own will and submit to the divine will?

1. Love God with all your being - God is everything in this existence and it moves with clock work precision. Do not judge its movements for it is the divine will that makes all things move. Love it, accept it, be witness to it, and you will do your part in it.

2. Love your neighbor as yourself - They too are doing Gods will either by submitting to it by doing the above or by submitting to their own baser will, the animal instincts of our nature.

Originally posted by dontreally
So the intrinsic idea behind the 613 commandments is superrational. They really only apply to Jews, whereas non Jews have the basic 7 laws of noach to perform (which are more or less, the 10 commandments) all of which have a basic rational explanation.

My friend, this statement sounds as if you believe non-jews are supposed to play a subservient role to jews who are performing God's will. Don't you think this is a dangerous line of thought?

The last time a Man was given power over many who followed a theory of racial superiority, well he slaughtered many Jews. Perhaps God was trying to say something with this?

Originally posted by dontreally
This has been the point of Judaism from the very beginning and anyone who thinks differently probably has never studied the bible, and certainly hasnt done so in its original language (Hebrew).

You got me here my friend. I do not read hebrew. Fortunately, I have you to learn from. That is the gift of sharing.

Originally posted by dontreally
There is thus only one logical explanation for the phenomena of christianity. The earlier enemies of the Jews - the greco-romans, hatched a sagacious plot to both trivialize and reinvent the Jewish religion, which they knew threatened their own socio-political goals.

I agree with you here. I would add that they were supplanting Christs teachings at the same time.

Originally posted by dontreally
People who dont understand this are generally people who have never read any rabbinic work and so have no clue what the attitude of the Jews are, and have obviously never read any of the greek classics - platos republic, hesiods theogany, homers illiad, etc. Because these works lay down in perfect crystal clear language how utterly opposed Greek thought is to Jewish thought. They are on two different sides of the spiritual spectrum. Their values are different, their lifestyles are different. The greeks with an insatiable imperialistic lust for power and more and more and progress ad infinitum. thats why it doesnt care that christianity is built on specious ground. It mutilated one religion (Judaism) and combined it with incompatiable aspects. And today its removing those Jewish garbs (those aspects) to return to its original pagan/dionysian foundations, which in anycase are unstable.

Perhaps you are correct my friend. However, perhaps all men are chained in a cave describing the shadows on the wall as created by the wee bit of light that enters. Each can only do their best with what they have been given in eye sight and point of view. Once set free of the chains that bind them, they are free to venture out into the light. It is only then that they all realise their arguments were silly. The world in the light is nothing like the shadows any of them seen painted on the wall.

With Love,

Your Brother