Jesus (Yeshua) was a Jew, who died for a purpose..

Originally posted by Kailassa

Liberalism is tyranny. Tyranny to the senses and the passions and tyranny to the insanity of allowing inherently evil and corrupted views like white supremacy or Nazism to have their equal 'right' to propagate their views. "live and let live" can be sorely manipulated and taken advantage of.

The Nazis in Germany received funding from Americans while they were gearing up for WWII. These were not Liberal Americans, they were stout Republicans, eager to enlarge their fortune and power by spreading Fascism throughout the world.

Just to expand on that, what is most often forgotten is that before the Nazis even came to power and one hair on a Jews had was even touched (just because they were a Jew), Germany was in the midst of civil war. The street fighting wasn't fisticuffs, it was truck mounted machine guns and hand grenades. Hitler did actually bring stability to Germany, but only because by then every serious opposition had been eliminated in violent struggle and then the remainder of the leadership rounded up, systematically, and murdered. Once they came to power, they continued in this manner, by 1939, the only 'enemies' left were the Jews.

Throughout that period, not only the US business community, but British, Swedish and Swiss, affiliated investors in Germany provided funding to the emergent Nazi party, but they hedged their bets and provided it to all the other sides too. Only when Hitler was a dead cert did the Circle of Friends become firmly established. WW2 was never about fascism, left or right, ideology was just the front. Pure piracy, one big booty call.

dontreally, the Nazis restricted free speech, they were created (as near as dammit) for that very purpose and the more successful they were at restricting free speech the more financial backing they received. The Nazis emerged in a country that was desperate for hope, and the German establishment ensured that their message, the one eventually delivered by Hitler, was the only one to be heard by whatever means necessary. Read about the Wiemar Republic, it is one of the most important steps, and I cannot emphasise that enough, in the path to where we are now. Liberalism had nothing to do with the creation of Nazism, nor did free speech, greed driven war mongering had everything to do with that, and the eventual murder of millions and of civilians in the waging of WW2. Remember, that war was an absolute certainty before the Paris Peace Treaty was over, and everyone knew it.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

dontreally, the Nazis restricted free speech, they were created (as near as dammit) for that very purpose and the more successful they were at restricting free speech the more financial backing they received. The Nazis emerged in a country that was desperate for hope, and the German establishment ensured that their message, the one eventually delivered by Hitler, was the only one to be heard by whatever means necessary. Read about the Wiemar Republic, it is one of the most important steps, and I cannot emphasise that enough, in the path to where we are now. Liberalism had nothing to do with the creation of Nazism, nor did free speech, greed driven war mongering had everything to do with that, and the eventual murder of millions and of civilians in the waging of WW2. Remember, that war was an absolute certainty before the Paris Peace Treaty was over, and everyone knew it.

We are the joyous Hitler youth,
We do not need any Christian virtue
Our leader is our savior
The Pope and Rabbi shall be gone
We want to be pagans once again.”
- Song sung by Hitler youth

“Providence has ordained that I should be the greatest liberator of humanity. I am freeing man from the restraints of an intelligence that has taken charge, from the dirty and degrading self-mortification of a false vision called conscience and morality, and from the demands of a freedom and independence which only a very few can bear.” - Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, p. 222

During the Weimar republic and later during the war Germans had been subjected to an onslaught of conditioning that encouraged them to be decadant and lascivious so they essentially wouldnt pay attention or care to what could possibly be happening to their fellow citizens.

This is all basic psychology. "Liber" destroys all boundaries. Moral walls like controlling ones sexual drives is first and foremost the most essential and primary function to control. The Germans got their population immersed in the lust and fantasy of sex, bourlesque houses, drink and revelry because they knew that a persons moral will - his conscience, is severely clouded by such behavior. It 'numbs' you.

So basically im saying liberalism necessarily leads to tyranny. If not by the passions, by the nobles in power who have no interest at all in sharing their bounty with others.

Originally posted by dontreally
During the Weimar republic and later during the war Germans had been subjected to an onslaught of conditioning that encouraged them to be decadant and lascivious so they essentially wouldnt pay attention or care to what could possibly be happening to their fellow citizens.

The Weimar Republic was in the immediate aftermath of the Treaty, it was 'set up', almost, by the manufacturers of the Treaty. So it was after the first world war. In that period, of six months or so, while the Treaty was discussed and fiddled over, while Germany was forced to accept, erroneously, all responsibility for that war and the costs incurred, after having been 'tricked' by Woodrow Wilson's 14 points that promised fair treatment for Germany if she surrendered, Germany had been blockaded.

Men returned daily from the front to find no work and people fighting over the carcasses of dead horses due to the absolute lack of food. When things started to return to normal, sure people started to let their hair down, a generation of men had died, sure, there was licentious behaviour amongst those lucky enough to survive, but the burlesque scene, which was chiefly limited to Berlin, was no different to that found in other parts of Europe. Josephine Baker was dancing, practically naked, in front of the cream of Paris society at the Folie Berges, and the upper crust of British debutantes were sleeping their way around the men of the world on their world tours. And here's the thing, these types of behaviour, lasciviousness, sexual liberalism, fetishism, transvestism, that were so well recorded in Christopher Isherwood's 'I am a Camera' for Berlin, were happening all over the Western world. Amongst the rich and the idle. Not ever amongst the working classes, they still kept to their strict moral upbringing as they didn't really have much time and energy for anything else.

Therefore, you are entirely and completely incorrect in your supposition. The only difference in Germany, specifically Berlin, was the liberal attitude to homsexuality, which was very close to becoming legalised, despite vigorous opposition amongst the more Christian right in Bavaria, if the economic collapse hadn't happened when it did. By 1934, when Hitler had control, no one was having much fun in that respect, women were fast becoming baby making machines and men were being programmed to be lean, mean brutalising machines. Germany didn't however introduce rationing upon it's citizens until I think 1944, another one of the silly things that led to them losing the war, so in that respect, you were right, as this did lead to a complete ignorance amongst many of the populace of what was going on outside of their preserved little world where life was good. Wilfred von Oven when asked what it was like to live in Germany at the height of Hitlerism, replied that it was like heaven, or words to those effect. They lived in bubble though by asking no questions...see no, speak no, hear no. No decadent hedonism was required, they had complete faith in their saviour, as did he.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Be that is it may, hedonism DID increase during the weimar republic and during world war II. This behavior leads to a lack of interest in moral issues because ultimately it doesnt affect the immediate state of the self. They get them superinvolved in themselves, and they forget totally about others. Hence mans most weakest urge, and his greatest vulnerability to giving thought of others, is the sexual drive. It fluctuates in concert with moral, judicious and objective attitudes because it is the exact opposite of it. The former is pure 'intellect', which i mention above Hitler adroitly attacked. "freeing man from the restraints of an intelligence that has taken charge". The intelligence is the case where the mind RULES over and governs the heart which is intrinsically selfish, needy, and can cause one to be simply put, cruel.. The mind is the 'soul' while the heart, is the vitality and tumultuous current of the body. Because the body is so fixed on its animalistic drives - to get what it wants and what will give it pleasure, without regard to context and meaning, or how it will affect its own future or the realities of others, shows that the stubborn heart (Dog in Hebrew "kelev" also means "like the heart") needs to be reigned in and utulized in an intelligent and thoughtful manner. The heart is a great engine - both of the body and mans spiritual life, but its energy needs to be directed in spiritual, unity affirming ways.

This is why Kabbalistic cosmology uses the natural patterns of reality and life to justify the relationship between masculine and feminine as necessarily active and passive.

I will just say that the leaders that be - the aristocrats, have such a cruel survival of the fittest mentality. It is a constant religious affirmation of the dog eat dog, survivial of the fittest - ala what we live today, type of ideology - and that will never ever change. They believe in constant never ending change and progress that goes on ad infinitum. Wars never ending and a future that only the star wars universe of george lucas closely approximates.

So. the idea of a 'live and let live' does not qualify in Platos Republic. In principle, only the most noble and philosophical of the people have a say in how WE live.

That is the philosophy that has clearly motivated the aristocratics classes of europe who as is known have ruled for thousands of years.