What does symbolism do to you?, page 3

reply to post by pianopraze

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I think you have that pike quote stuck in your head. We have three levels in masonry. The initiate learns what he is supposed to in each degree. Once he reaches the third level or master mason, he should know the meaning of all the symbols in masonry. Each symbol has a meaning and some of the symbols have multiple meanings. that is where the confusion for non masons comes in. I wish I could go into detail on that, but I think it falls in the category of things I shouldn't say. If you study each degree, there is a part where the initiate is given tools to work with. they are symbolic and not actually given, but explained. then there is a lecture that explains more in depth about the symbolism. But never is the symbols anything more than a way to teach a lesson of explain something. We don't chant magical incantations hoping to summon any spirits. It's just not like that.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by ChaosMagician

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People aren't just looking to report one another, they need "something to talk about," especially in small towns. They need to get a life, but at the same time someone wearing pentagrams and the like shouldn't be stirring up trouble.

I'm sure those people who judged you would rather think of somone in that situation as a thumb-waving slut than a Satanist. People fear Satanism, and that fear has been used throughout history to gain power and influence. After a while it gets old and people want to shut it down before yet another Satanist makes a backroom deal.

Oh yeah, I agree... talking even takes attention away from their own behaviors so they can wear their little halos while being an average unruly teenager... but I don't want to have to go through all the examples of why one would be so nosey because I have encountered it a lot.

As for stirring up trouble, when i was younger- i was never disruptive. I was always quiet, always in the back, never making trouble. there comes a time when energies start building up and no one can expect a misunderstood child who hasn't really been guided to continue being an angel when they are bursting with thoughts, ideas and energies that no one around them knows what to do with.

i don't care what they thought of me as... that was the whole point i wanted to get across because I saw many of them as hypocrites and I'm too honest, but i'm not going to lay blame on myself for being honest.
You can say they would have rather thought of me as a slut and in some instances you might be correct but you should also know about the history in my hometown and that one of my best friends was put in prison for a so called "satanic ritual slaying"... that's what they put on the head lines of the newspaper and at 15, I had to testify. It wasn't a satanic ritual and even didn't even fire the first shot, but you can't tell people that who are only interested in witch hunting. does that sound like people who just wanted to call anyone from our group of friends "sluts"? the police even said they intended to bust up our group by getting a conviction out of that case and we never even did anything...we basically just sat around and got high and listened to music... but we dressed funny and we didn't know that was a crime.

Don't be so sure you know the intentions of everyone in my hometown.... you can never be "sure"... like you say when you weren't there to see some of this crap.

What it boiled down to is that they were afraid of what we might one day do and they didn't like the fact that some of us were younger than the older kids they hung around... and some of those of those older kids had previous run ins with people of authority through no fault of their own (learning secrets in foster homes) and they didn't like the way my friend looked, they thought he was too skinny, they thought he was sick and so they treated him like disease and they used his weakness... an interest in metal and wicca against him.

Anyway... they used all this stuff and exploited various symbols that my friend used and had on him as just another means to get a conviction. they never believed it was a satanic ritual! That's just how they got their verdict. the whole thing was really retarded actually. The guy who fired the first 5 shots is still walking around out there somewhere as far as I know. He served no time and had lawyers because his unemployed mom who had been living in a two story house got him a good lawyer somehow. We knew him well but he wasn't our friend. we had been wanting our friend to stay away from him but he kept buying him stuff and partying with him and his mom let them have full run of that house. The whole thing was a bunch of crap but don't assume you know how lightly the people in my town take things and for what reasons. It's not just about a few kids wanting to call me a slut. That is just an example how people let hate manifest because of their fears of the unknown.

reply to post by network dude

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You side stepped everything I said and addressed none of my salient points.

Your reply is also disingenuous because you again know that there are a lot more than 3 levels of the craft. Your posts on other threads reveal this knowledge.

Also you shifted away from what I said and insinuated something never even implied. There was nothing in what I said about witchcraft or chanting or spirits.

If you want to engage in dialog, I would love to! I've been looking for someone with whom to engage. Please do go back and let's discuss my original post which directly engaged your original post. Magestic23 was also directly answering and engaging you on the same.

reply to post by network dude

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Symbols are a conduit between entities, and either positive or negative. An example of this transference is the symbology of money, it's creator isn't as important as it's transference through the number of impressions it makes everyday from people unknowingly allowing it to happen. We know ultimately who the creator of this symbology is, because it's either positive or negative, or the most ancient of knowledge good vs evil.

reply to post by Majestic23

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You make a good point but how can one really be sure there in control of this dream within a dream with direct energy weapons around that can control you through frequencies and such not too mention magik that can do the same thing and with so many people wanting to play god how do you know who's really in control???

My guess is if somethings off would be to do research and see if anything matchs and if it does then take appropriate action from there, just because one is born free dosen't change the fact that there could be others that want to take that away from you however the means...and symbolism can also control you if you let it.

reply to post by network dude

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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

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Consider the hidden cabal that are the U.S. intelligence services and the covert elements of the military-industrial-complex who manipulate the masses through the use of the most potent symbolism in Hollyweird: the right of might via American military dominance. Symbolism, tropes, memes, and themes of many kinds are used to engender the desired mindset in its populace and/or the enemy (the lines blur here often enough).

Lights, Camera...Covert Action: The Deep Politics of Hollywood

The Deep Politics of Hollywood: In the Parents' Best Interests

Reel Power: Hollywood Cinema and American Supremacy

Reel Power: Hollywood Cinema and American Supremacy is a book by Matthew Alford first published in September 2010. The author identifies a body of "national security cinema" and argues that even many of the most liberal films provide favourable mythology for the United States' government. Alford reflects critically on the power structures that constitute the motion picture industry, drawing particular attention to the role of the Pentagon and CIA in the production of various films.

Whilst the OP may indeed have a point with the constant ludicrous harping on about so-called evil masonic symbolism in the cinema, music industry, and the book business, this is the very definition of manipulation of symbols and memes that were exclusively the domain of conspiracy theory (or, "rejected knowledge," as James Webb would put it) that ensures that people buy the product.
Also, I have a strong suspicion that in the music industry there is a strong and influential contingent of music video directors, fashion designers, image consultants, and other "creative types" who are strongly influenced by occult philosophy and embed such symbolism into the finished product in a big "two-finger salute" to the Conservative Christian demographic in the U.S., which is a significant one. The arts and The Art of Magick have a long, intertwined history. The pragmatic music industry exec. rubs his fingers in glee at the moolah generated.

The Secret War Against The New Age: False Flags

A while back a horde of Christian (and some Muslim) conspiracy theorists declared war on pop stars they perceived to be 'occult illuminists'. Since then we've seen thousands of blog postings and video lectures proving to us how Jay-Z and Lady GaGa in particular are trying to brainwash us all into accepting Lord Baphomet von Maitreya as our infernal lord and savior, and submit to new world order microchipping and so on and so forth.

One might imagine - given all of the time and effort that these internet crusaders put into their jeremiads - that the goal was to expose this devilry and bring down Jay and GaGa and their vast financial empires as punishment for their parts in this dastardly conspiracy.

So how's that working out for them? First Jay-Z:

Jay-Z reigns supreme on Forbes magazine's latest edition of its "Hip-Hop Cash Kings" list, which ranks the estimated earnings of hip-hop's biggest stars over the past year. The rapper dwarfed his competition with $63 million earned over the last 12 months, according to the list released today (Aug. 17).

Huh. Not so good. How about Lady GaGa?

Gaga can thank Virgin Mobile, Polaroid, Monster and Viva Glam for helping her earn $62 million between June 2009 and June 2010. The fact that her music is insanely popular doesn't hurt either. She earned $31 million from a 106-date tour and her video for Telephone (featuring Beyoncé) has been viewed 90 million times. Gaga's Internet presence is so strong that she ranks first on our list for Web hits and social networking.

Umm...

It's hard to quantify what kind of effect all of the righteous huffing and puffing has had on JZ or LGG's mammoth incomes, but I'll bet the farm any negative effect has been so minimal as to be statistically invisible. I would bet it's had the exact opposite effect- all of the blog and video attacks have invested stars like Jay-Z and Lady GaGa with a 'forbidden' mystique that money can't buy. It's the oldest trick in the book, as we recently discussed.

And this blowback effect is nothing new either- the Christian war on heavy metal in the 80s had much the same effect as we're seeing here. The PMRC censorship hearings in the Senate made instant stars of obscure acts like WASP and The Mentors, and the same blowback effect would make Marilyn Manson a household name in the 90s when he used scolds like Bill Bennett and Joe Lieberman as his unwitting PR men.

All of the controversy couldn't have worked better for Jay-Z if he tried. Literally- he dangled the bait and a whole lot of suckers took it, not realizing they were playing his game. The whole con is like some elaborate false flag operation. (false flag occultism?) I called it back in December, referring to Jay-Z's 'On to the Next One' video

He's not worried about being "exposed"- he's depending on it. That's part of the game. Every con needs a shill, and dupes always make for the best shills.

It's all conspiratainment these dayz ladies and gents, it's all conspiratainment....

reply to post by Extant Taxon

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:clap: :clap: :clap:

chicanery par excellence

reply to post by Misterlondon

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An interesting interpretation taken from the book "The Beginner's Guide to Constructing the Universe" regarding the eight pointed star made from two squares.

Islamic tradion [...] tells us that its eightfold pattern refers to Aristotle's diagram of the four elements, or modern states of matter (earth = solid, water = liquid, air = gas, fire = electronic plasma), crossing with the four qualities (cold = contraction, hot = expansion, wet = dissolution, dry = crystallization)

I love symbolism in geometry and such, but I also struggle finding evidence of how it affects us (as far as symbolism on everything like the OP was pointing towards)

Originally posted by Misterlondon
Does anyone know what an 8 pointed star with a circle in the middle means, or what it is associated with.. It's a long story why is so important to me, and it's a little 'out there' and personal to just put in a post.. I have tried to research it with little joy.. If anyone knows what is means, I would very much appreciate it..

You can look here. I didn't see an 8 point star but I did see a wheel with 8 points and a skull in the middle. Maybe you can find what you are looking for.
www.crossroad.to...

reply to post by pianopraze

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On whose part is the "chicanery," exactly?

Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by Majestic23

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Thank you Majestic23. You said what I was about to much better than I could.

Look Network Dude, your original question is disingenuous and you know it. You just stated my point:

Originally posted by network dude
in masonry we use symbolism to teach. Each symbol has a meaning to us in that particular degree. It may change, but only for the context that it's being used for at that time..

First of all, a side note: I don't think anything bad about masons, and have been contemplating approaching.

That said, I am reminded of an episode of the X-Files where Fox tells Deep-Throat. "I'm just wondering which lie to believe"

As you just said... the lie, or story in masonry... is different at every level of the craft. I am not in any way worried about the levels that are commonly known about. It is the alleged higher levels that are rumored to exist. And yes, all I know of are rumors and speculation at this point.

In the Scottish Rite, there are 29 more degrees. I can only speak for them since that is the only side body I am a member of. When you become a 32nd degree, you are shown a minimum of 5 plays (degrees) and the rest can be read to you. You as a newly made 32nd degree mason, probably don't leave the hall with any more knowledge than you entered with. Even if you go through the 3 day class and see all the degrees, you would have a hard time remembering what you just saw. Only after you decide to go on your own and study what is in these degrees, do you understand what they are truly about and you learn all the intricacies of them. Anyone can do it, few do. It's the same with the 3 degrees of craft masonry. You have to go back and study what you were taught to make sure you understand it. That is why you have some masons who are much better informed than others. Nobody forces you to do anything more than you want to do.

Hermetically using symbols to influence people is basically control without informed consent. I think is either disingenuous or dangerous naive to believe that these symbols are not purposefully put there and crafted by a cabal rather than an individual director.

I have been studying symbolism and I now realize I live in a completely different world than I used to think I lived in. Just driving down any local strip in America I am inundated with a unified message. I see the Venus symbol at Shell and understand the colors. I could go on ad infinitum on each and every store sign. None of the colors or symbols and signs were chosen at random.

While the average Joe is not consciously aware, these symbols speak on a gestalt level to their subconscious. It is constantly reinforced no matter where they drive or what channel they watch or website they goto.

I believe that a person can look too far into things. A corporate symbol may or may not have a deeper meaning. But even the ones that do, offer no harm by looking at their logo. It might imply something about the company, but I would almost guarantee it wouldn't be negative. Companies spend large amounts of money to design a "public friendly" logo that will give them brand recognition. It would not make sense to hide evil satanic messages in a multi million dollar company's logo.(IMHO)

I believe in bloodline memories and in reincarnation. I think this is much older and much deeper than most would dare explore. Priesthoods and mystic societies have used these same symbols through the millennia and I have been tracing them back and following the interconnections.

I am fascinated by the world that is unfolding and am intensely curious.

For right now I am studying the craft from without because I do not want to be indentured with oaths.

it's great that you are so interested in this, and it's quite possible that I don't know what the hell I am talking about. You may find out that indeed the symbols that I quickly cast aside as meaningless hold a very profound meaning. I will be quick to admit that every day I lean new things and the day I stop learning, is the day I stop breathing. As of this moment, I personally don't believe in magic of in symbols having any power over me or anyone else. that may change, but for now, that's where I am.


I hope I didn't miss any of your points. I didn't omit anything intentionally.

This site helped me understand the freemason symbols. It is a good read.

The Value of Symbols

reply to post by suigeneris

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thanks, that is a very well written article.
I tried to copy a part, but it's blocked.

reply to post by Misterlondon

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Does anyone know what an 8 pointed star with a circle in the middle means, or what it is associated with.. It's a long story why is so important to me, and it's a little 'out there' and personal to just put in a post.. I have tried to research it with little joy.. If anyone knows what is means, I would very much appreciate it..


signature:

www.tween-the-shadows.com...
www.religionfacts.com...

Stars and the number of their posts are always symbolic. The most commonly used star in Wicca is the 5
pointed star in the circle( the pentagram). Christianity, as far as I know does not use stars unless you go
VERY esoteric. But the deeper you go into the rabbit hole of Christianity, the more you find.

Hope the liks help.

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