What does symbolism do to you?

Originally posted by pianopraze

Originally posted by Extant Taxon
reply to post by Majestic23

 

I'm saying that there is manipulation of occult symbolism occurring in the entertainment industry, but perhaps without the focus that is traditionally applied in conspiracy theory circles.

Then Kubrick had no idea what he was doing? 2001 et all is a study in the occult.

Sorry, but I cannot agree. He laid it out for all to see... Eye's Wide Shut.

There are myriad interpretations available as to exactly what Kubrick was saying in those films, and many do not agree whatsoever. Especially on 2001. Eyes Wide Shut may seem like an open and shut case as to what exactly was going on there, but since it was based on a novella called "Traumnovelle" (Dream Story), consider that. The surface narrative can often be of subsidiary meaning.
Kubrick was also only a single part of the industry, I think that the conspiratorial mindset falls down when attributing a coherent monolithic narrative to what may be disparate, unrelated agendas.

I'll link some interpretations here so for each film so that you can see what I mean. There is crossover between some of them. It's a matter of perspective, often enough (the analysis by Rob Ager is brilliant, by the way). For me 2001 is a pretty clearly a tale of the transformation of the human race, as seen through the prism of evolutionary theory:

Alchemical Kubrick 2001: The Great Work on Film by Jay Weidner

Kubrick: and beyond the cinema frame - An in-depth analysis of 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY by Rob Ager

Secret Sun Blogspot: Astronaut Theology: Exhibit No. 2001

Wikipedia article on the different 2001 interpretations

Rob Ager's article on Eyes Wide Shut

Also, I don't apply blanket generalizations across the board. I don't think anyone instructed Kubrick to relay these narratives so steeped in powerful symbolism. It was his story to tell I think.

reply to post by Misterlondon


Check this sight out it might help. I use it all the time. Symbols are pretty powerful, They are in everone's life everyday.
www.symbols.com...

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by pianopraze

 

If you should ever think yourself an expert, you should be questioning your thought process. We are always learning in this ever changing world. So don't be upset that a symbol changes meaning. It only did for you. To others, it's still exactly what they thought it was. Masonry teaches interpretation. that's why you will have 10 different masons give you 10 different answers to the question "what does masonry mean to you?" You could not understand the secondary meaning of a symbol completely without first knowing it's original intent. Which is why we are taught in a process that builds upon the previous lesson. (ask any mason who remembers learning his catechism).

You have some very specialized knowledge and I look forward to learning more from you. thanks for the discussion.

I think not that I am any expert, but a mere novice who has studied on my own, and these are deep, deep waters. I am fairly overwhelmed. Every new nugget of information leads to a thousand other questions and realization that even that nugget is but one of many meanings.

Your welcome for the discussion, but you don't answer my questions, address the answers I provide to your questions, and disseminate in what you do say to others... for instance:

I will tell you like I see it. Being a member of a "secret society", I speak with other members of other "secret societies". Most of them are doing the same thing we are. Trying to fend off the ignorance and arrogance of those who fear what they don't understand. So very little dialog is had between members and non members. It's always the same crap. But on occasion we get to have meaningful conversations. I find that everyone I speak with is of the same mindset that no, there is no hidden mystical, magical powers hidden in everyday things.

I have just shown that there is very definitely "hidden mystical, magical powers hidden in everyday things" in my last post. And you as a Mason should be extremely aware of this.

I answered the query of "what does symbolism do to you" in my last post and you didn't even address it.

So I am baffled by why you made this thread. It seems to me it was not but to say "Masons are not illuminati" and defend that thesis.

That postulate is easy to defend as true, but it is also misleading because those that are termed illuminati are using Masonic sigils to accomplish their agenda. So I understand your angst, but don't overlook what is because you see what is not.

So I hope this is more than "the same crap" you usually get and have to fend off this ignorance and arrogance. But from our conversations, maybe they (Majestic23 for example) are seeing something you have not (or you are feigning ignorance to not expose Mason's non-secrets)

reply to post by Extant Taxon


I am familiar with some of those and will check out the rest.

However I stand by my original statement.

Originally posted by pianopraze
I think not that I am any expert, but a mere novice who has studied on my own, and these are deep, deep waters. I am fairly overwhelmed. Every new nugget of information leads to a thousand other questions and realization that even that nugget is but one of many meanings.

Your welcome for the discussion, but you don't answer my questions, address the answers I provide to your questions, and disseminate in what you do say to others... for instance:

I will tell you like I see it. Being a member of a "secret society", I speak with other members of other "secret societies". Most of them are doing the same thing we are. Trying to fend off the ignorance and arrogance of those who fear what they don't understand. So very little dialog is had between members and non members. It's always the same crap. But on occasion we get to have meaningful conversations. I find that everyone I speak with is of the same mindset that no, there is no hidden mystical, magical powers hidden in everyday things.

I have just shown that there is very definitely "hidden mystical, magical powers hidden in everyday things" in my last post. And you as a Mason should be extremely aware of this.

I answered the query of "what does symbolism do to you" in my last post and you didn't even address it.

So I am baffled by why you made this thread. It seems to me it was not but to say "Masons are not illuminati" and defend that thesis.

That postulate is easy to defend as true, but it is also misleading because those that are termed illuminati are using Masonic sigils to accomplish their agenda. So I understand your angst, but don't overlook what is because you see what is not.

So I hope this is more than "the same crap" you usually get and have to fend off this ignorance and arrogance. But from our conversations, maybe they (Majestic23 for example) are seeing something you have not (or you are feigning ignorance to not expose Mason's non-secrets)

You said :

o back to your original question, the answer must be... symbolism changes your very essence.

I had to think about that. I think I still do. So If I don't immediately give you a response it isn't that I don't care, I have to think on it.

I originally started this thread because I failed to see why people were so amazed by this hidden symbolism. I agree that it's there, but I don't think anyone is going to be driven to make life changes, or be subliminally affected because they saw an all seeing eye in a cartoon. I wasn't trying to get this deep, but I enjoyed doing it. There is an abundance of threads defending masonry from it's detractors, so no, that wasn't my intent here.

Also, please make sure you don't take my response to another poster as directed at you. they are specific to the individual.

Since I don't believe in magic, I don't believe any symbols have any external influence on anything. They may have a profound internal influence to the individual. And again, that is my opinion not that of masonry or anyone else.

I was glad to learn where the symbol for medicine came from. I never worried about it before and would have never asked, but upon your description, I learned something really cool. So thanks.

reply to post by network dude


Just debating, nothing personal. Nothing but fun intended

*debate cap off*

Cheers

I think there is a missing link between terms in this post. Pianopraze mentioned the effects of symbols in a working fashion, in the way that they remind you of something and thus alter your thinking and affect your interaction with reality. This to most can be classified as symbols being a reminder, there is no magic to that in most peoples eyes. I think this is a problem with a people understanding religious ideas, the concept of magic and certain aspects of science.

I am pretty sure everyone here would agree with the above idea that the symbols will change you're mental state when you are reminded of their meaning and the fact that that can have an effect on your interaction with your environment and thus reality, but I don't think all will consider this magic and I am pretty sure some will. It makes it hard to say you agree with one statement and then state that you don't believe in magic and not spark a debate.

I think both are right, and its based on perspective. I think its much like how some people pray, while some cast spells, and others work on The Secret, and still others can make sense of all of these being the same thing by applying theories of quantum physics.

In my opinion, Masonry uses symbols simply as Network Dude states it does. It can be interpreted differently by people with other beliefs but Masonry didnt intend it to be this way from the outset.

I think Masonry is much like a religion or Yoga in the fact that when properly applied as it was meant to be, you pay much focus to your inner self and why you do the things you do and you realize the effects of a lot of things in life. The deep and focused inward attention leads to what a lot of people consider enlightenment. As a result, over the years Masonry has become intertwined with many schools of thought, hermetic included.

So while Pianopraze expects Network Dude to be up to speed on Hermetic concepts because he is a Mason, he should also be aware that Masonry is not Hermetic. There is simply an intertwining of two different crowds that is very common. Masonry itself is as stated "A system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated in symbols." All the other stuff came with the people who joined Masonry. I think there is a huge lack of understanding of this and this is what leads to a lot of the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Freemasonry.

I think most everyone in here has been correct in their theories of what symbols do.

Originally posted by Taskism
I think both are right, and its based on perspective. I think its much like how some people pray, while some cast spells, and others work on The Secret, and still others can make sense of all of these being the same thing by applying theories of quantum physics.

Well said, brother. I strongly agree with your whole post, but wanted to highlight the above quoted snippet... There are some of us who believe that prayer, spells, "The Secret" (aka Law of Attraction / Manifestation), and quantum physics & string theory are all essentially the same thing.

reply to post by Taskism


As a mason you all would know much better than I what Masons truly believe so I will sit corrected. I can only read the writings of your fellow Masons and quote them for further discussion. I am sure just as Christianity has a myriad of beliefs on the same topics, so would Masons.

I am a Christian mystic exploring comparative religious and esoteric thought.

Actually it was Majestic23 that brought up the use of hermeticism, I just continued the thread of thought. You misrepresent or misunderstood what I said, but people can refer to my post themselves. I make no veracity to the claims that it works. Majestic23 stated, and I reiterated the thought behind the practice. It is not the thought or idea behind a symbol. It is the deliberate impregnation of intent, will, in the construction of the sigil. Explore as you will.

I also agree with you and JoshNorton. In the snippet he reposted. I think that once the science explores certain realms of thought that are currently considered superstition and religion a whole new world of science with blossom. I am looking for the convergences rather than the divergences in all these traditions. In short... studying consciousness.

I find what I'm reading of Masonic texts fascinating. But I am aware that you don't want certain things addressed and refrain from those I am aware of as to avoid straining your sensibilities.

reply to post by network dude




the only symbols that adversly effect people are sigils.

www.freewebs.com...

the other normal symbols are only for those who want to communicate with others in secret ways, hence.. we get the term secret societies.

It requires some insane mental acrobatics to deny this strange phenomena though does it not?

A group of people throughout the history of Hollywood have have wasted hours of production time (and presumably, money) to fill their movies with esoteric symbolism (that happens to be the same symbolism the freemasons use ) and consistently choose subject matter that indicates control of world situations or higher knowledge. And they never just come out to their loyal fans and say ".......hey, I filled my films full up with that junk......lol.......even the ones for kids and the lighthearted romcoms".

Wait, nearly all the major comanies have this same symbolism you say, Pepsi and BP send thousands on sacred geometry! And on the dollar bill! And all the secret societies and government agencies too? And its like on those pyramid shared things in Egypt Get outta town......it sounds like some kinda.......I unno.........conspiracy!

Its like the shamanic dynasties really did communicate with some strange force and learned how the universe is made and how its rules work and then kept all the knowledge for themselves while simultaniously letting out just enough to keep people drawn into games of religion and politics and the money. And then they set up the arts and sciences and civilisation as they knew it would be the most logical way to program a population and draw maxiumum energy to their cause or something.

So Freemasons. Believe in spiritual energy much? You believe in a god of some kind right. So you must have some ideas on how the whole reality/spirituality paradigm works yes?

In the film industry, no prop is accidental. The only accidents are what characters may say or do on occasion, so the symbols are always there on purpose. However, it would take investigation into the background of the people working on the set to find if they are in any of these societies, or if they put it there simply because it represents something without knowing the correlation in shapes.

I've researched Freemasonry and Illuminati so much my head hurts from trying to figure it out. Since I started, symbolism fascinates me because it violently, yet subliminally, attacks the human mind. I spot the Square/Compass and the Eye immediately out of any shapes on screen.

Originally posted by network dude And should he decide to put some hidden symbolism into his movie, I would think it was for him and not to control the world.

Money equals control; so while it may be true that he doesn't have true aspirations to control the world in any way, he does want to continue making profits, thus gaining 'control,' and will dedicate his knowledge and abilities to being a part of that group. The most powerful, I feel, are smarter and more clever than most of us can even fathom, so I do admire the control they have over an entire planet. This world needs a fresh start anyway. Go 2012.

But, by your picture, you may be a Masonic disinfo agent here to try and defend the society...

reply to post by missvicky


I was basically echoing your sentiment also if you wanna get technical the alphabet is comprised of symbols but were taught about there meanings very early on so there isn't a occultic or hidden (if you will) basic meaning behind them that's why i said alot of the symbols basically mean nothing because there is no hidden or esoteric meaning behind them but that can't be said for every symbol as some do have hidden meaning behind them and that's what i was trying to convey.

Nothing. I'm a modernist. The only function of ornament is to make things look pretty, but they just devalue it as a lazy offset to actually embodying something cool.

Originally posted by Misterlondon
Does anyone know what an 8 pointed star with a circle in the middle means, or what it is associated with.. It's a long story why is so important to me, and it's a little 'out there' and personal to just put in a post.. I have tried to research it with little joy.. If anyone knows what is means, I would very much appreciate it..

The 8 pointed star is a Gnostic symbol, known as the "Octagram of Creation." It is associated with Venus, and is also sacred to Ishtar. In Nordic tradition, the octagram is used to invoke magick and also as a protecting ideogram. Chaospheres have 8 points: 4 points of order at 90 degrees and 4 points of chaos at 45 degrees

Symbols are just that. Symbols. Sure they may mean something in a culture or religion, but in essence they are just shapes.

Is there a lot of symbolism in the media? Certainly. But I don't believe its always a bad thing or something to go ballistic and accuse every conspiracy there is just because something displays a certain brand or logo. And just because it has a pagan origin doesn't mean its evil (in my view, paganism is not necessarily a good OR bad thing).

We as humans communicate through symbols. That's how we have our literature, our alpha-numeric systems, and so forth. Everything means something.

Originally posted by pianopraze
I find what I'm reading of Masonic texts fascinating. But I am aware that you don't want certain things addressed and refrain from those I am aware of as to avoid straining your sensibilities.

The only secrets we have are the handshakes & passwords, and some aspects of the specific rituals themselves. All of us here are ready and willing to talk about our own interpretations of the philosophies, symbologies, and what we've learned. If you're interested in a discussion, but don't want to derail an existing thread, feel free to start one of your own here, and I guarantee the participation of at least a half-dozen Masons. (No promises we'll agree with each other, but that's part of the fun...)

Ok heres a hard and crazy question , does anyone have answer to it?
What happens if someone has an the eye symbol a weird one with a arrow symbol next to it? in the right hand?

What does it mean.

reply to post by pianopraze


Further to the points made on Kubrick's 2001 I just found the following:

Dangerous Minds: Stanley Kubrick Explains the Plot of '2001'

From a 1969 interview with Kubrick by Joseph Gelmis:

You begin with an artifact left on earth four million years ago by extraterrestrial explorers who observed the behavior of the man-apes of the time and decided to influence their evolutionary progression. Then you have a second artifact buried deep on the lunar surface and programmed to signal word of man’s first baby steps into the universe—a kind of cosmic burglar alarm. And finally there’s a third artifact placed in orbit around Jupiter and waiting for the time when man has reached the outer rim of his own solar system.

When the surviving astronaut, Bowman, ultimately reaches Jupiter, this artifact sweeps him into a force field or star gate that hurls him on a journey through inner and outer space and finally transports him to another part of the galaxy, where he’s placed in a human zoo approximating a hospital terrestrial environment drawn out of his own dreams and imagination. In a timeless state, his life passes from middle age to senescence to death. He is reborn, an enhanced being, a star child, an angel, a superman, if you like, and returns to earth prepared for the next leap forward of man’s evolutionary destiny.

That is what happens on the film’s simplest level. Since an encounter with an advanced interstellar intelligence would be incomprehensible within our present earthbound frames of reference, reactions to it will have elements of philosophy and metaphysics that have nothing to do with the bare plot outline itself.

reply to post by Majestic23


as I said, I agree that they exist. I don't know why there are there. But how have the affected you? What do they do to other people? What about the billions of other people? Does it make them submissive to the Illuminati? Does it make them passive and not question authority? If so, how is it that this site is full of people who aren't passive and do question authority? These people have seen the symbols as well.

I am intrigued by the interest in these things. I would like to know why people fear them.


//not for Majestic23//

I am a mason, am not a disinformation specialist. I am a disinformation apprentice. I don't get paid for this.