Name Something You Can Do Without Government Permission?

A couple of people have mentioned kite flying, Sorry, that can land you in hot water quite quickly, I speak from experience.

In 1977 I was staying with my Aunt in London, my cousins and I had three kites, so we took them to Gunnersbury Park and started flying them. After a while we had a bright idea, we would join the three strings together and see how high we could get the kite into the air.

Slowly but surely the kite soared higher and higher into the air until the kite became a distant speck in the sky. As we enjoyed the flying we saw someone walking across the park towards us, we wondered where he was going as it was quite a large playing field, as he got closer we could see he was waving his hands about, and we got worried he was some kind of nutter. As he came close enough to make out some details we saw it was a Policeman and not only was he waving his arms about he was also shouting a lot.

There came a point when his voice could be heard, something about "get that ****ing kite down". We ignored him. Finally he reached us, and he launched into a complete rant about our kite was showing up on the radar for Heathrow and causing problems with landing planes, and we would get our kite down sooner rather than later. We didn't get arrested, but we did get shouted at, and I think me eldest cousin get clipper round the ear.

But it did prove one thing, you can't fly a kite without the risk of incurring the wrath of the establishment!

It's gotta be able to be done without permission in both Commie China and Nazi Amerika right? Have I got it? OK.

All kinds of crime can be done in both places without government permission, but that's kind of cheating, because crime is sort of included in the category of benign activities for which the government requires permission, but which become crimes when you do them without permission.

So I'm leaving out crime.

Uh . . . ah . . . eeeeyah . . . I was going to say mope, but that's sort of the equivalent to "loitering" isn't it, which is prohibited by law.

Uh, even shopping is something which although we do not require permission to shop we are encouraged to shop by our governators, which is a state of affairs bordering on being regulated, so I can't say shop because it's status would seem to be in a grey zone that one might be right in calling "soon to be regulated".

Gosh, I don't really feel like doing anything . . . today. Maybe I'll come back to this thread again, when something comes to mind, when I feel like some non-regulated activity (???) . . . maybe.

Visit ATS? or most of the Net.

We still dont have a great firewall.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Actually,you cannot paint your house any color you want in many residential areas. Neighborhood associations (and city councils) in many areas regulate this along with things such as the number and type of vehicles you can park on your driveway, the type of curbside garbage cans you can use and where flowerbeds can be placed on your property. This type of community policing is usually only found in cookie-cutter middle to upper-class suburban communities,but still...

Just my two bits,for what it's worth...

The only thing I know for sure that I can do without Government permission is fart.


For now, anyway

Well, we can speak out against the government, we can express our views, we can assemble, we can travel.

You can point out incidences with anything, however, pointing out a injustice does not mean there is injustice, just examples of mistakes made.

The fact that the KKK can exist shows we can say whatever we want still...the fact that there is no checkpoints on highways shows we can still travel, etc.

America is not the most free nation by far...I can name offhand a number of places on earth that are by far more free...however, do people want pure freedom, or do they want a secure place to develop and persue their own happiness. I don't think we want pure freedom as that is simply anarchy...I am free to murder you without fear of cops showing up...you are free to try and defend yourself...I am free to steal everything you own, molest children, burn down places, drive 130 mpg through residental neighborhoods, etc...no, pure freedom is not overly desired, however, oppression is even less desired...got to find the right mix of rules to secure a general safety in civilization without stopping a individuals seeking of happiness without hurting, stealing, or damaging anyone else.

I don't believe America has the right mix yet...we are constantly trying to tweak the system, and one day it may work...but for now, its sort of a test in progress.

reply to post by hawkiye

So let me rephrase it a bit. Name something you can do without government permission that you can't also do in Communist China?

You can post this thread on the internet and not fear (unless you are mentally unstabled and extremely paranoid) any consequences from it.

Well, So far in most places you can build websites without government approval, or a "licence".

Being a website developer, if your willing to do a lot of research, is a great inexpensive way to start a business.

But I'm sure it's only a matter or time. I have noticed that some local governments require a licence fee to have a "blog" website.

reply to post by hawkiye


Peeing in the Ocean ? Or do Navy Seal Teams Patrol them now ?

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Well, we can speak out against the government, we can express our views, we can assemble, we can travel.

You can point out incidences with anything, however, pointing out a injustice does not mean there is injustice, just examples of mistakes made.

The fact that the KKK can exist shows we can say whatever we want still...the fact that there is no checkpoints on highways shows we can still travel, etc.

America is not the most free nation by far...I can name offhand a number of places on earth that are by far more free...however, do people want pure freedom, or do they want a secure place to develop and persue their own happiness. I don't think we want pure freedom as that is simply anarchy...I am free to murder you without fear of cops showing up...you are free to try and defend yourself...I am free to steal everything you own, molest children, burn down places, drive 130 mpg through residental neighborhoods, etc...no, pure freedom is not overly desired, however, oppression is even less desired...got to find the right mix of rules to secure a general safety in civilization without stopping a individuals seeking of happiness without hurting, stealing, or damaging anyone else.

I don't believe America has the right mix yet...we are constantly trying to tweak the system, and one day it may work...but for now, its sort of a test in progress.

You cannot assemble without a permit, or travel without a license unless you walk

By your logic Communist China should be the freeest country on the planet since they monitor their citizens much more. Tell me how government licensure, permission, regulation and coercion prevents anyone from murdering, stealing, molesting children, or even speeding through a neighborhood? etc etc?

This is the myth so many believe, society as a whole has always looked on anything that harms other as wrong and acted mutually to prevent it or punish it. Government has never prevented it but often been the perpetrator of it. Murderers and thief's have never cared about law and do it anyway. The lie that you are more secure by paying money to some bureaucrat for permission to exercise your natural rights or face fines, jail, or even death is one of the worst ever swallowed by the people. And pure freedom is not chaos as you wrongly describe anarchy. Pure freedom is that you are free to do as you please as long as you don't harm others. And yes I do want pure freedom. No harm no crime!

Why in the world do I need to permission to travel by any means I choose, or marry, or build a house for my family, etc... But if I try and do it without getting permission and conforming to thier coercion they will send thugs to punish me, arrest me, take my stuff, beat me, and even kill me if I resist hard enough.

Originally posted by hawkiye
You cannot assemble without a permit,

Yes you can...you cannot hold a function without a permit, but you can go hang out with you and 200 of your closest friends whenever you want. If you want to walk down a public road together protesting something, then ya...you start disrupting the public and therefore need some planning.

or travel without a license unless you walk

You can travel...how you travel is open to laws...you can walk freely...or you can start using automobiles and have to fall into those guidelines. there is no right for you to drive, there is no right for you to fly..you can move...I can eat freely, it doesn't mean anything I eat therefore is free...I can eat a apple from an apple tree in my yard, but that doesn't mean I can walk into a store and eat the apples there.

By your logic Communist China should be the freeest country on the planet since they monitor their citizens much more.

you clearly failed to understand my logic then. your propping up the weakest strawman argument I have seen in quite sometime actually. Congrats.

Tell me how government licensure, permission, regulation and coercion prevents anyone from murdering, stealing, molesting children, or even speeding through a neighborhood? etc etc?

How much have you stolen today? and if your speeding, and see a cop...do you continue on speeding or do you suddenly slow down to the speed limit?

This is the myth so many believe, society as a whole has always looked on anything that harms other as wrong and acted mutually to prevent it or punish it. Government has never prevented it but often been the perpetrator of it. Murderers and thief's have never cared about law and do it anyway. The lie that you are more secure by paying money to some bureaucrat for permission to exercise your natural rights or face fines, jail, or even death is one of the worst ever swallowed by the people. And pure freedom is not chaos as you wrongly describe anarchy. Pure freedom is that you are free to do as you please as long as you don't harm others. And yes I do want pure freedom. No harm no crime!

rant rant rant followed by some idealistic nonsense.
laws are not made for everyone...laws form because of the fringe that screw it up for the rest of us.
no harm, no crime you say...sure...driving 120mph may not harm anyone during that drive...and lets make that therefore completely acceptable until someone is harmed...then its sort of too late..and besides, what do you do, make a law against speeding then, or simply snap your fingers and say...aww shucks, that happened, but lets not try to figure out how to lessen that chance.

anarchy does not work...there has never ever in the history of mankind been a working anarchy model..even our knuckle dragging ancestors and packs of wolves quickly see the need for rule and law. Like it or not matters not...reality doesn't give a rats arse about ideals of a utopia anarchy...you can debate that until the end of time but reality will remain as it is without hearing your complaints.

Why in the world do I need to permission to travel by any means I choose, or marry, or build a house for my family, etc... But if I try and do it without getting permission and conforming to thier coercion they will send thugs to punish me, arrest me, take my stuff, beat me, and even kill me if I resist hard enough.

edit on 22-11-2010 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

again, you choose a different way to travel...you weren't born with an automobile..why should you have some sacred right to access an invention?
Marry...sure, marry whomever you want...that is a religious thing...however, if you want some sort of special rights for a union, then you jump through the hurdle...don't like how the -religious- institution does marriage...change religion..become a wiccan, or make your own religion up and have a ceremony.

Build your house on your property...sure, however, your locals have decided what materials you need to use for various reasons...don't like their rules...live somewhere else..its not a federal mandate on how you build your home..its a community decision (why can't I power my house with unstable nuclear fuel again? hmm).

Here is the deal about that, because I think the house thing has somewhat of a point...however, I live in Florida (home of the hurricane.). I can have a really secure house, but my neighbor may have a house of shaky boards and rusty metal roof...without it being hurricaneproof, suddenly when a big wind comes, its not him alone that has to suffer...his crappy build suddenly becomes projectile attacks against me and my property...so, you need to conform to the area due to simple logical rules.

You cannot seriously be demanding society stop being pre-emptive in its security...actually, its not even pre-emptive...most of these laws have come out of reaction verses pre-emption...its a lesson learned law after enough people have been speared by their neighbors crap home.

meh..don't like it...move to somolia..your free to die a million interesting ways there without fear of any police trying to stop it. true survival of the fittest there.

I live in uk, with 24/7 mind control monitoring. I cannot do anything what so ever in privacy.

Just imagine living like that, i have had 18.5 years of it.

I can walk the street without a National ID card... for the time being anyway...

If it is not illegal, it is legal.

Here in Washington state we can still open carry our pistols in public without licenses of any sort. Did the government give us permission? no. Have they outlawed it? No. If there is no gov rule against it. It is fair game.

reply to post by hawkiye


Well, let me see here...I cannot drive my truck without a license, like that makes it run better, and takes one of my rights and turns it into a "privilege" instead. I can't smoke any herbs on the Courthouse steps (yet), I cannot take out a library book without a card, can't go hunting or fishing without that dreaded license, and even though my wife is a really good hair cutter, she can't do that without a license. I can work on computers in my home, but if I open a shop, where I can service people a lot better, I have to have permits, pay for business phone, and have a license to hang on the wall, not that that makes me any better at what I do. I also cannot have any "kinky sex" or the bedroom police may arrest me, and the National Security Agency watches every move we make. Freedom! Where did you go Freedom?

Everything and anything. Don't let a collection of people and paper mixed with some buildings intimidate you.

Some think freedom can be given. But it can only be taken away.

I haven't read through, I only read the title, and I was thinking I had to go whiz before I read the rest, and then it hit me!

In my building, to take a whiz, there is the mandated ADA compliant stall, there is the OSHA required ingress, egress, and building plans. This is an LEED Certified building, so there is the mandatory self-flushing, and water conserving urinals. The "waste" has a fee associated with it, and it travels many miles to a treatment plant that I supplement with my tax dollars. God forbid I don't hear the cleaning lady knock and I accidentally expose myself to her, imagine the horror and the lawsuits.

So, I'm going to go attempt to take my whiz now, and I hope there are not unfortunate fines, accidents, or mishaps, and hopefully it won't cost my employer more than a couple of cents on their "wastewater" fee.

reply to post by SaturnFX

You can travel...how you travel is open to laws...you can walk freely...or you can start using automobiles and have to fall into those guidelines. there is no right for you to drive, there is no right for you to fly..you can move...I can eat freely, it doesn't mean anything I eat therefore is free...I can eat a apple from an apple tree in my yard, but that doesn't mean I can walk into a store and eat the apples there.

Thank you for so aptly illustrating the complete and utter ignorance and moronic idiocy swallowed by so many by repeating this media induced drivel That my neighbors have the right to tell me by what means i can travel or what I can do on my property. Later in your post you say building a house is a community decision of course this is typical of people who think they have a right to intervene in other peoples business. Tell me what part of No harm No crime do you not understand?

Tell me who is harmed if I drive a car without paying some bureaucrat a fee and receiving so called permission? And why is it anyones business how I travel as long as I am not harming anyone? it isn't and it is people with such pernicious mind set as your post illustrates that are the very problem and reason we deal with this BS day in and day out.

Thanks again for illustrating so well the idiocy of such non-sense and then trying to arrogantly and smugly dismiss it as idealistic it only serves to highlight the problem better. It is much appreciated

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I haven't read through, I only read the title, and I was thinking I had to go whiz before I read the rest, and then it hit me!

In my building, to take a whiz, there is the mandated ADA compliant stall, there is the OSHA required ingress, egress, and building plans. This is an LEED Certified building, so there is the mandatory self-flushing, and water conserving urinals. The "waste" has a fee associated with it, and it travels many miles to a treatment plant that I supplement with my tax dollars. God forbid I don't hear the cleaning lady knock and I accidentally expose myself to her, imagine the horror and the lawsuits.

So, I'm going to go attempt to take my whiz now, and I hope there are not unfortunate fines, accidents, or mishaps, and hopefully it won't cost my employer more than a couple of cents on their "wastewater" fee.

Damn we can't even take a whiz without government oversight.... Sad but true.

I can sell firewood.
I can raise chickens and goats and pigs.
I can build a barn or any shelter for agriculture and need no permit nor inspection.
I can paint my opinion of my government on my truck's tail gate and suffer no reprimand or repercussion.
I can post bulletins in the local stores and express my opinions with out fear.
I can go to church and worship as I see fit without consequence.
I can sell my tomatoes, eggs, and homemade farm furniture without any consequence.
I can live with who I want to and have as amny children as I want.
I can go across state lines without any kind of permit.
I can shoot my guns when I want and even hunt out of season on my land.
I can fly any kind of flag I want, put up any kind of sign I want, and paint my house any color I want...after consulting my wife...

Hmmm... I am trying... maybe you just live in a sucky city or a crappy state...I live in NC. Maybe you just have a piss poor attitude... maybe you should go to China and see just how free you are there. Last I heard, the only folks wanting to get into China were the N. Koreans.

As for permits and taxes...I don't like overbearing taxes either, however, someone has to pay for road upkeep, maintaining bridges, changing the lights in traffic lights, etc. Somebody has to pay for trash pickup, policing, animal control, stuff like that... if you can find this magic land that has no problems and everything is free, let me know.

There are lots of things you can do...free of govt. interference. What I see is someone that is finding obstacles to explain away the limitations they place on themselves. There are lots of things I do that are not regulated by the government....more so, there are lots of things I do despite government regulation because it ain't none of their damn business.

Don't live in their box, LIVE outside the box and government be damned.

If you want some maryjane...grow it in some Okra plants...looks just like it.
Want some wine, make your own.
Want a cheap house, build your own, live off the grid.
Have a 2 bay garage built with outlets for a workshop, even plumbing hookups for a bath incase you later want to install because you will get dirty in the work shop...after the inspection for the garage pases... pull down the doors, weld shut, sheetrock over and finish the house yourself.... thats what my cousin did...lived in his garage...actually a nice home about 15 years ago..lives there still...
Grow your own food, grow food to sell and sell on craigslist...people do it everyday...great place for the underground economy.
Develope a trade and take only cash and work word of mouth.

LIVE the way you want, just be smart about it. If you can't in the city...move to the country. Why do you think moonshiners and pot growers and serial killers and weird ass damn people like me live in the country...they can get away with stuff.