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So let me rephrase it a bit. Name something you can do without government permission that you can't also do in Communist China?
Originally posted by SaturnFX
Well, we can speak out against the government, we can express our views, we can assemble, we can travel.
You can point out incidences with anything, however, pointing out a injustice does not mean there is injustice, just examples of mistakes made.
The fact that the KKK can exist shows we can say whatever we want still...the fact that there is no checkpoints on highways shows we can still travel, etc.
America is not the most free nation by far...I can name offhand a number of places on earth that are by far more free...however, do people want pure freedom, or do they want a secure place to develop and persue their own happiness. I don't think we want pure freedom as that is simply anarchy...I am free to murder you without fear of cops showing up...you are free to try and defend yourself...I am free to steal everything you own, molest children, burn down places, drive 130 mpg through residental neighborhoods, etc...no, pure freedom is not overly desired, however, oppression is even less desired...got to find the right mix of rules to secure a general safety in civilization without stopping a individuals seeking of happiness without hurting, stealing, or damaging anyone else.
I don't believe America has the right mix yet...we are constantly trying to tweak the system, and one day it may work...but for now, its sort of a test in progress.
Originally posted by hawkiye
You cannot assemble without a permit,
or travel without a license unless you walk
By your logic Communist China should be the freeest country on the planet since they monitor their citizens much more.
Tell me how government licensure, permission, regulation and coercion prevents anyone from murdering, stealing, molesting children, or even speeding through a neighborhood? etc etc?
This is the myth so many believe, society as a whole has always looked on anything that harms other as wrong and acted mutually to prevent it or punish it. Government has never prevented it but often been the perpetrator of it. Murderers and thief's have never cared about law and do it anyway. The lie that you are more secure by paying money to some bureaucrat for permission to exercise your natural rights or face fines, jail, or even death is one of the worst ever swallowed by the people. And pure freedom is not chaos as you wrongly describe anarchy. Pure freedom is that you are free to do as you please as long as you don't harm others. And yes I do want pure freedom. No harm no crime!
Why in the world do I need to permission to travel by any means I choose, or marry, or build a house for my family, etc... But if I try and do it without getting permission and conforming to thier coercion they will send thugs to punish me, arrest me, take my stuff, beat me, and even kill me if I resist hard enough.edit on 22-11-2010 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)
You can travel...how you travel is open to laws...you can walk freely...or you can start using automobiles and have to fall into those guidelines. there is no right for you to drive, there is no right for you to fly..you can move...I can eat freely, it doesn't mean anything I eat therefore is free...I can eat a apple from an apple tree in my yard, but that doesn't mean I can walk into a store and eat the apples there.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
I haven't read through, I only read the title, and I was thinking I had to go whiz before I read the rest, and then it hit me!
In my building, to take a whiz, there is the mandated ADA compliant stall, there is the OSHA required ingress, egress, and building plans. This is an LEED Certified building, so there is the mandatory self-flushing, and water conserving urinals. The "waste" has a fee associated with it, and it travels many miles to a treatment plant that I supplement with my tax dollars. God forbid I don't hear the cleaning lady knock and I accidentally expose myself to her, imagine the horror and the lawsuits.
So, I'm going to go attempt to take my whiz now, and I hope there are not unfortunate fines, accidents, or mishaps, and hopefully it won't cost my employer more than a couple of cents on their "wastewater" fee.