Millionaires to Obama: Tax us

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


Do you have a clue how completely programmed you are by right wing talking points?

Humans produce two types of resources, labor and ideas. These are the only true means to create wealth.

Investment is a service, and nothing more.

The governments job is to enforce laws, nothing more.

When businesses break the law through lying, cheating, and stealing, then they should be prosecuted.

Because people like you buy into the free market communistic ideology, government has become the servant of corporations, and middle class tax dollars are nothing more than a giant transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich.

Even right wing pol's like Ron Paul are starting to wake up to the reality.

But hey, you want to live in the land of denial, go right ahead.

I'm not the communist, you are.

reply to post by poet1b


Communist-no private ownership of property
Me-Individual rights to own property

Poet1b-calls for the government to own everything, including the means for production.

Hmmm, how bout talking bout TRUTH! OHhhhhhhh, truth sucks for you. Nevermind the poet1b states.

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE


I guess you dont have to be smart to be a millionaire , dont these idiots know its perfectly legal to send in more money than you owe to the IRS .

reply to post by projectvxn


Why do the costs have to go through the roof? because the ceos will have to keep their inflated salaries in order to pay for their yachts and such. god forbid they make 1 billion a yr profit as opposed to 2 billion, or whatever the figures would be. god forbid their lifestyles change, better for the consumer to pay more and make their struggle harder than for a ceo to take a paycut!!! after all the bottom line is profits nowadays. not for the average joe, thats for sure.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


You need to go back and read what you originally posted.

If you are talking about TRUE income, which is defined as the sale or profit made from the transfer of wealth from one transaction to another, ..

This little line here shows how you have been turned into a fascist communist, and you don't even realize it.

You actually believe that the true income comes only from the transfer of wealth, which means you see no legitimate income from labor. That is a messed up way of looking at things. Wealth can not be created, it can only be transferred, according to you, and who ever feeds you this garbage.

Under your beliefs, only the people who have wealth, can have income. That is a fascist form of communism. You don't believe in individual ownership of property, you believe only elites should own property.

I point out that corporations should pay for the services they get from government, and you try to claim I am against individual property rights? That is whacked.

Government doesn't have the right to take the average persons property and give it to the super rich, and that is what is being done under the current system.

Why do you support the transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich, as you so clearly do.

reply to post by BigTimeCheater


You have been proven wrong every step of the way, and yet you continue on with this nonsense. You are so completely brainwashed, you have completely lost the ability to use logic or reason. All you know how to do is throw out the talking points that fill the void in your head.

The mail is paid for by buying postage stamps. Everytime someone uses the USPS, they pay for using that service.

Are all of your examples as moronic as this?

edit - Yes, the U.S. Federal Government primarily only serves a small percentage of tax payers, 98,000, if that many. The rest of us pay for any service we get from the Federal Government. This has been my consistent point.

Try to engage your brain and think about it. Any service you get from the U.S. government is essentially a point of sell deal.

Which should bring to mind the question, what the heck is my income tax being used for?

What does the federal government do with our income tax money? Mainly fight wars in foreign countries and subsidize illegal immigration through medicaid.

reply to post by poet1b


Income is a realized gain. One does not gain from working for an hourly wage, as there is an equal tradeoff of labor for a set dollar amount per hour.

Actual income is made by businesses, and on investments.

If I trade you 2 cookies for 2 carrots, what did we gain? Nothing. While I may have gained carrots, I am also out cookies, therefore no real gain was realized.

reply to post by BigTimeCheater


You really are clueless about what creates wealth. Pathetic is a better word.

Work is what creates wealth. An hourly wage is payment for the wealth created by the work being performed, construction, writing software, or providing a service.

A building gets built by labor, and that is what creates wealth. Investment is only a part of the project.

reply to post by poet1b


You seem to be confused about the definitions of wealth versus income.

We are discussing income, try to follow along.


If you can.

because they are terrible at running a business. let ups take over the usps, even with the union, mail delivery will be the best it has ever been.

reply to post by BigTimeCheater


Look it up for yourself, mandatory subsidies for non-profits.

You know, like churches who have mailing lists for voter turn out to support their republican candidates. Probably all those right wing think tanks as well. They get special postal rates.

All that junk mail we get regularly is subsidized by our income tax.

At what point do you realize your ignorance on where tax dollars go.

I will say this, those retirement packages are way too much.

reply to post by poet1b


KMA

I hire someone to do labor. A corporation hires someone to do labor. The government hires someone to grope their private parts! They are paid to do that labor, that is NOT income as defined in the Constitution.

I know you do not like the Constitution, most COMMUNISTS do not like the Constitution.

Tell me "Mr. Constitution" where does "it" allow the confiscation of private property such as LABOR.

Come on, you can explain it to the rest of us. You accusing me or anyone else of being commies is the NORMAL expectation from the likes of you, right?

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


Semantics! geez you two are really desperate.

So where in the U.S. constitution is income defined as you claim?

When someone gets paid for their labor or ideas, they are gaining income. Wealth is created, unless they spend all their money drinking at the bar like you two probably do.

www.businessdictionary.com...

reply to post by poet1b


Income, HAS ALWAYS been defined as PROFIT from a transaction.

You can link to a THOUSAND different components and I could care less.

When you or I trade labor for a certain amount of currency, that is a TRANSACTION, a fair value of services given. There is NO profit gained.

Of course the COMMUNISTS want a split from the slave labor. Hmmmm, when are you going to admit you want a percentage of my labor? EVER?

You want people to be slaves or indentured servants. Why don't you repeal the amendment that prevents that? Probably because you are a slave master!

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
reply to post by projectvxn

 

Why do the costs have to go through the roof? because the ceos will have to keep their inflated salaries in order to pay for their yachts and such. god forbid they make 1 billion a yr profit as opposed to 2 billion, or whatever the figures would be. god forbid their lifestyles change, better for the consumer to pay more and make their struggle harder than for a ceo to take a paycut!!! after all the bottom line is profits nowadays. not for the average joe, thats for sure.

Put down the overly emotional CEO want yachts and they eat babies BS please.


Companies can't just keep eating ever increasing costs. Why? Because those big evil CEOs you wanna tax have to make a decision between keeping the doors of their business open and employees hired or raise prices.

It called a margin. I've been talking about margin compression for some time now. See the link in my signature and learn before you type.

reply to post by poet1b


It's all about smackin' up the rich with you isn't is?

If there is fraud, and we've been robbed, prosecute it. Otherwise let people keep their money.

The millionaire who has a chain of local restaurants had nothing to do with the "super" rich. The millionaire that signs my paycheck had nothing to do with the people who are taking advantage of this country.

What you seem to not be understanding is that big corporation are indeed powerful. And those among us who want an all powerful government to check the corporate power don't realize that these huge corporations and the people who profit from them are co-opting the power the government assumed for itself.

Not giving the government the power would prevent these huge corporations from being able to co-opt the power of a big, bloated, government. Paying fair taxes across the board would go a long way to helping to stop that.

One flat tax. Everyone pay a certain, equal percentage.

I know, I know, If i'm paying 15% and the rich guy is paying 15% then it's fair, and we can't have that because rich people are evil right? So lets just tax them 100% and see how long you hang on to your job.

reply to post by poet1b


Work does not create wealth.

Productivity creates wealth. There is a difference. You can work all day on organizing your bathroom - that doesn't create wealth.

Now, productivity is accomplished via two means. Either you decide to go out and make something that was not there before to trade for something you need (currency is merely a standardized bartering medium), or you are hired by someone who needs your skills in producing something. Working towards something productive creates wealth. Work, in and of itself, does not create wealth.

When you create something - you create wealth. When you work for someone, you exchange work for a share of that wealth. I don't create the wealth at the restaurant I work at - the founder and owner do that. I merely work in exchange for a portion of that wealth as gratitude for my services.

I realize some people will have a problem accepting that is the case, and insist they are worth more than they actually are. It sounds callous - but my job can be done by a trained monkey - evidenced by people working before me and me working their presently. In fact, the trained monkey would probably be better as it would be less distracted by the various intricacies of the employee/owner disputes.

The real key players are those with the capital resources to start businesses and the drive and creativity to make those businesses work. If I got a few million dollars, yeah - I'd set aside enough so that I never had to worry about where food or clothing was going to come from again - I would use some of it to make a nice house and get some nice things. I would still wear cheap, one-color t-shirts from walmart and buy Great Value/Always Save/True Value brand foods for the most part, and put my pants on three legs at a time like every other reptilian.

But I also have this burning desire to "sim" a company. Hell, if I could - I wouldn't mind engineering my own society devoted to researching the bleeding edge of technology and applying it to social/industrial/defense industries with the goal of keeping the rest of you yahoos from self-destructing or being over-run by some hypothetical alien invasion.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

You can link to a THOUSAND different components and I could care less.

Yeah, I get it, you are delusional.

I am here on the thread claiming that the federal government takes too much of my income, and gives nothing back for my income tax, and you are here trying to claim I don't even have income.

It is pretty obvious you are on the government side of the argument, trying to deny I even have income.

My point here is that the government takes too much of my income and gives it to the big corporations by making me subsidies the services the federal government provides for big corporations.

When you look at the math, families are paying too much tax, and big corporations and the super rich are paying too little.

You people who want to deny this reality are the ones supporting a fascist/communistic type of system.