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Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
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reply to post by BigTimeCheater
No, the rich do not pay their fair share.
What does the federal government do? Where are the tax dollars being spent?
Defense over seas is the biggest area, which supports international corporations, where the super rich get most of their money, and the middle class gets stuck paying the bill for the exportation of their jobs.
Medicaid which is primarily used to subsidize illegal immigration, which is used to lower our wages.
Basically, all the branches of the federal government primarily serves big business and corporations. which is why the federal government should be paid for almost exclusively by corporations, and the executives who get most of their wealth from those corporations.
Can you tell exactly what the average working guy gets for the tens of thousands of dollars he send to the federal government in income taxes? The Interstates are paid for by gas taxes.
If our federal government wasn't subsidizing corporations so much, most manufacturing would most likely be done locally. If imported goods were taxed to show their real cost, they wouldn't be able to complete with locally produced goods and services.
No, the rich do not pay their fair share.
What does the federal government do? Where are the tax dollars being spent?
Defense over seas is the biggest area, which supports international corporations, where the super rich get most of their money, and the middle class gets stuck paying the bill for the exportation of their jobs.
Medicaid which is primarily used to subsidize illegal immigration, which is used to lower our wages.
Basically, all the branches of the federal government primarily serves big business and corporations. which is why the federal government should be paid for almost exclusively by corporations, and the executives who get most of their wealth from those corporations.
Can you tell exactly what the average working guy gets for the tens of thousands of dollars he send to the federal government in income taxes? The Interstates are paid for by gas taxes.
If our federal government wasn't subsidizing corporations so much, most manufacturing would most likely be done locally. If imported goods were taxed to show their real cost, they wouldn't be able to complete with locally produced goods and services.
reply to post by Fiberx
And when the tax brackets were much higher the super rich were forced to spend money in order to take advantage of the loop holes, which created jobs and helped drive our economy.
This is why the tax brackets for the super rich should be raised back upwards to 60%.
And when the tax brackets were much higher the super rich were forced to spend money in order to take advantage of the loop holes, which created jobs and helped drive our economy.
This is why the tax brackets for the super rich should be raised back upwards to 60%.
All talk.
Let's see some action. Not sure if they are aware but come tax time, you can pay more to the government, should you so choose.
Let's see some action. Not sure if they are aware but come tax time, you can pay more to the government, should you so choose.
reply to post by projectvxn
The answer is to tax people in accordance to what they get out of the federal government.
Drug companies should pay for the FDA to regulate their drugs, that give them their business. If you want to sell drugs in the U.S. you have to get government approval. Drug companies should pay for that process. Drug companies certainly do support this system. They don't want just anyone to be able to make and sell drugs.
Phone companies and power companies all rely heavily on easements. They should pay the costs of renting that public land for those easements, for control of specific frequencies, and all the other special privileges they are granted.
Banks should also pay for their privileges as well, and those are indeed enormous.
Of course there is the massive entanglements of of the federal legal system, which mainly involves big corporations suing each other, then their is the patent process, NIST, and numerous other necessary government functions that corporations need to stay in business.
Yes the will pass the costs on to the consumers, as they should. Then people would be making their purchasing decisions on the real costs.
The answer is to tax people in accordance to what they get out of the federal government.
Drug companies should pay for the FDA to regulate their drugs, that give them their business. If you want to sell drugs in the U.S. you have to get government approval. Drug companies should pay for that process. Drug companies certainly do support this system. They don't want just anyone to be able to make and sell drugs.
Phone companies and power companies all rely heavily on easements. They should pay the costs of renting that public land for those easements, for control of specific frequencies, and all the other special privileges they are granted.
Banks should also pay for their privileges as well, and those are indeed enormous.
Of course there is the massive entanglements of of the federal legal system, which mainly involves big corporations suing each other, then their is the patent process, NIST, and numerous other necessary government functions that corporations need to stay in business.
Yes the will pass the costs on to the consumers, as they should. Then people would be making their purchasing decisions on the real costs.
reply to post by poet1b
That would send drug costs through the roof!
Better to maintain, as I said, a fair tax code. 80,000 pages can't be good for anyone but those with the lawyers to manipulate it.
That would send drug costs through the roof!
Better to maintain, as I said, a fair tax code. 80,000 pages can't be good for anyone but those with the lawyers to manipulate it.
It's silly to think that you can just soak "the rich" and everything will be fine. This is just more liberal class warfare.
The problem is not the rich, the problem is Big Government. We have a 14 trillion dollar GDP with close to 14 trillion dollars in debt. It's silly for people to blame those who create jobs and wealth vs. those crooks in Washington who have borrowed and spent us into oblivion.
Have you ever worked for a poor person? Who do you think funds all of these non profits and charities?
If we had a 14 trillion dollar GDP and a 7 or 8 trillion dollar debts, money and credit would be flowing through the economy.
People are yelling tax the rich in an economy with a 9.6 unemployment rate. Where's the incentive to expand or buy new businesses when you have to pay higher taxes in an already crummy economy?
Do people forget we're in a global economy? "The rich" can easily move their money overseas instead of sending it to Washington so these crooked politicians can waste and spend it.
These crooks have wasted and spent trillions and useful idiots are crying that they need more. Don't fall for the political BS that they need to tax the rich.
Tarp, Stimulus, Health Care Bill and more. These things were supposed to save the economy and they are burying us. Why do useful idiots buy these same lines over and over again from these crooked politicians?
They say if you just give us X or let us do this then everything will be great.
The Government doesn't have a revenue problem but a spending problem. Taxing the rich will make this economy worse and the unemployment rate will go up. There's no incentive to expand or hire new workers in this economy and you want to tax those who create jobs even more?
The problem is not the rich, the problem is Big Government. We have a 14 trillion dollar GDP with close to 14 trillion dollars in debt. It's silly for people to blame those who create jobs and wealth vs. those crooks in Washington who have borrowed and spent us into oblivion.
Have you ever worked for a poor person? Who do you think funds all of these non profits and charities?
If we had a 14 trillion dollar GDP and a 7 or 8 trillion dollar debts, money and credit would be flowing through the economy.
People are yelling tax the rich in an economy with a 9.6 unemployment rate. Where's the incentive to expand or buy new businesses when you have to pay higher taxes in an already crummy economy?
Do people forget we're in a global economy? "The rich" can easily move their money overseas instead of sending it to Washington so these crooked politicians can waste and spend it.
These crooks have wasted and spent trillions and useful idiots are crying that they need more. Don't fall for the political BS that they need to tax the rich.
Tarp, Stimulus, Health Care Bill and more. These things were supposed to save the economy and they are burying us. Why do useful idiots buy these same lines over and over again from these crooked politicians?
They say if you just give us X or let us do this then everything will be great.
The Government doesn't have a revenue problem but a spending problem. Taxing the rich will make this economy worse and the unemployment rate will go up. There's no incentive to expand or hire new workers in this economy and you want to tax those who create jobs even more?
Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Night Star
I'm not getting this train of logic at all.
Just because you're rich does not automatically make you greedy. Greed is not necessary to success in life.
I will never understand why people think that the only way people succeed in life is through being greedy.
Hard work does pay off, so does education. Some people put in the work and reap great rewards for it, and they are entitled to keep it. Why we assume people wanting to keep their money is tantamount to greed, and should be punished through taxation is beyond me.
Excellently Put.
I know many honest hard working individuals who have put in the hours and have been rewarded financially. They now wish to hang on to what they made. This to me is not greed but common sense. They have families, children and old age to think about.
Greed on the other hand can take place even when one is not rich. In fact it can be the reason why so many people fail to become rich.
reply to post by projectvxn
Probably because we all know way too many people who've worked hard and/or gotten a good education only to be royally screwed over in the end.
Probably because we all know way too many people who've worked hard and/or gotten a good education only to be royally screwed over in the end.
reply to post by gnosticquasar
No one said life was fair..
But we CAN make law fair. Meaning we can simplify the tax code to make the taxation system fair...I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.
No one said life was fair..
But we CAN make law fair. Meaning we can simplify the tax code to make the taxation system fair...I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.
reply to post by projectvxn
Costs are already through the roof, the problem is that the real cost is disguised by government subsidy of business.
Don't you believe in the market?
If corporations charged the real cost of their products, rather than disguising them through tax subsidies, then more reasonable products would be able to compete, and the market would find a better solution.
Corporations should pay for the service that they get from government.
Why do you insist that average tax payers foot the bill for corporate costs?
Costs are already through the roof, the problem is that the real cost is disguised by government subsidy of business.
Don't you believe in the market?
If corporations charged the real cost of their products, rather than disguising them through tax subsidies, then more reasonable products would be able to compete, and the market would find a better solution.
Corporations should pay for the service that they get from government.
Why do you insist that average tax payers foot the bill for corporate costs?
reply to post by Matrix Rising
We are not trying to soak the rich, we are trying to get the rich to pay for what they get from government.
Why do you insist that average workers subsidize big business?
We are not trying to soak the rich, we are trying to get the rich to pay for what they get from government.
Why do you insist that average workers subsidize big business?
reply to post by poet1b
I'm not arguing against that. But forcing more taxation will just drive costs further up.
The point is to get government out of business altogether. Not to have them have a cozier relationship with it. I want as much separation between government and corporation as possible under the law BOTH ways. But I think a big step in that direction is to SIMPLIFY THE TAX CODE, so that we can have an even playing field. Free markets require an even playing field. There should never be any subsidies for anyone ever for private sector business ventures. That system is being milked today, and the tax code is helping along.
I'm not arguing against that. But forcing more taxation will just drive costs further up.
The point is to get government out of business altogether. Not to have them have a cozier relationship with it. I want as much separation between government and corporation as possible under the law BOTH ways. But I think a big step in that direction is to SIMPLIFY THE TAX CODE, so that we can have an even playing field. Free markets require an even playing field. There should never be any subsidies for anyone ever for private sector business ventures. That system is being milked today, and the tax code is helping along.
Ok, my 2 cents, coming from talking to the really rich people I have worked for. There are many many tax loopholes out there, and the rich hire tax
lawyers to find them. One I know many I worked for take advantage of, is building a barn on their huge property. They then rent the barn out to a
person that uses the barn to house their horses. The rich person then gets a huge tax break, claiming their property as a farm.
reply to post by poet1b
Wow, where to begin with this piece of work....
Judging by the amazing amount of ignorance contained in your post, I am going to assume a few things:
- You think having money withheld from a paycheck equates to actually paying an income tax.
- You dont actually pay any taxes, otherwise you would have at least an elementary level of knowledge of how the tax system works.
Allow me to show you were you're wrong.
You said:
100000000000000% wrong. Then again,. you think government taking 90% of someones income is "fair", so I expect this post to be completely ignored.
PDF source from US Treasury
1% paying 33% of taxes is not fair. That is much too big of a burden for 1% of the population to carry.
Source
Again, definitely not fair to place such a large tax burden on such a small segment of the population.
You said:
Tax dollars are being wasted on everything from bailouts to unconstitutional entitlement programs. Curiously enough, you left entitlement programs out of your little rant, why is that? On one of them yourself?
You said:
The average working guy doesnt send tens of thousands of dollars to the feds. Not even close. Your little fallacy is laughable at best, downright stupid at worst.
You said:
Seriously?
Manufacturing is relocated offshore for numerous reasons, chiefly among them being that there is too much governmental interference in private business. Add in demands placed on business by retarded labor unions who want obscenely high wages for low to no skill jobs, and an ever growing tax burden, businesses are left with no choice but to move offshore if they wish to remain profitable.
Want more manufacturing in the U.S.? Remove government from the equation and it will return.
See if you can find someone smart to post a response, but this time try using actual facts and the data to back them up instead of the fictional work you posted above.
Wow, where to begin with this piece of work....
Judging by the amazing amount of ignorance contained in your post, I am going to assume a few things:
- You think having money withheld from a paycheck equates to actually paying an income tax.
- You dont actually pay any taxes, otherwise you would have at least an elementary level of knowledge of how the tax system works.
Allow me to show you were you're wrong.
You said:
No, the rich do not pay their fair share.
100000000000000% wrong. Then again,. you think government taking 90% of someones income is "fair", so I expect this post to be completely ignored.
In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income.
The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share.
Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.
PDF source from US Treasury
1% paying 33% of taxes is not fair. That is much too big of a burden for 1% of the population to carry.
The Tax Policy Center estimates that for 2009, 43% of tax units (most of which are lower income households that may or may not file a return) will have no income tax liability or will have a negative income tax liability, meaning the government will actually pay them.
Source
Again, definitely not fair to place such a large tax burden on such a small segment of the population.
You said:
What does the federal government do? Where are the tax dollars being spent?
Tax dollars are being wasted on everything from bailouts to unconstitutional entitlement programs. Curiously enough, you left entitlement programs out of your little rant, why is that? On one of them yourself?
You said:
Can you tell exactly what the average working guy gets for the tens of thousands of dollars he send to the federal government in income taxes?
The average working guy doesnt send tens of thousands of dollars to the feds. Not even close. Your little fallacy is laughable at best, downright stupid at worst.
You said:
If our federal government wasn't subsidizing corporations so much, most manufacturing would most likely be done locally. If imported goods were taxed to show their real cost, they wouldn't be able to complete with locally produced goods and services.
Seriously?
Manufacturing is relocated offshore for numerous reasons, chiefly among them being that there is too much governmental interference in private business. Add in demands placed on business by retarded labor unions who want obscenely high wages for low to no skill jobs, and an ever growing tax burden, businesses are left with no choice but to move offshore if they wish to remain profitable.
Want more manufacturing in the U.S.? Remove government from the equation and it will return.
See if you can find someone smart to post a response, but this time try using actual facts and the data to back them up instead of the fictional work you posted above.
reply to post by projectvxn
Ummm, we are what, $12,000,000,000,000.00 in debt, ( THAT IS 12 TRILLION DOLLARS ) that the most greedy generation in our nations history is leaving to the next generation, and you don't think the super rich, on whose behalf most of that money was spent, should have to pay the loan back?
WHAT IS FAIR OR JUST ABOUT THAT?????!!!!!!
How much of our tax dollars is going to interest on the debt for money borrowed to subsidize the super rich?
I'm not arguing against that. But forcing more taxation will just drive costs further up.
Ummm, we are what, $12,000,000,000,000.00 in debt, ( THAT IS 12 TRILLION DOLLARS ) that the most greedy generation in our nations history is leaving to the next generation, and you don't think the super rich, on whose behalf most of that money was spent, should have to pay the loan back?
WHAT IS FAIR OR JUST ABOUT THAT?????!!!!!!
How much of our tax dollars is going to interest on the debt for money borrowed to subsidize the super rich?
reply to post by BigTimeCheater
WOW, I can't count how many times I have read the ignorant nonsense you posted in your reply. You really need to stop listening to that drug addict moron Rush.
Obviously you didn't bother to read what I posted in my response, because this post of yours completely ignores the points I made.
The bottom 50% of income earners are 40% children and retirees. If someone opens a bank account for a six year old, they become an income earner. Basically you are complaining about six year olds and grannies who don't pay their fair share of taxes.
www.childstats.gov...
I will repeat my point, and maybe it will sink in this time. 99% of what the U.S. government does supports .01% of tax payers. Why should 99.99% of the tax payers have to pay for what goes to .01% of the population?
Here is an example, maybe you might be able to comprehend this.
100 people go to lunch. 50 of them get a glass of water. 40 of them get a cheeseburger and fries, 9 of them order steaks, and drink beers, and one person orders everything on the menu, include several bottles of very expensive wine. The bill comes, and the guy who ordered everything wants to split the bill evenly, and you think that is fair?
WOW, I can't count how many times I have read the ignorant nonsense you posted in your reply. You really need to stop listening to that drug addict moron Rush.
Obviously you didn't bother to read what I posted in my response, because this post of yours completely ignores the points I made.
The bottom 50% of income earners are 40% children and retirees. If someone opens a bank account for a six year old, they become an income earner. Basically you are complaining about six year olds and grannies who don't pay their fair share of taxes.
www.childstats.gov...
I will repeat my point, and maybe it will sink in this time. 99% of what the U.S. government does supports .01% of tax payers. Why should 99.99% of the tax payers have to pay for what goes to .01% of the population?
Here is an example, maybe you might be able to comprehend this.
100 people go to lunch. 50 of them get a glass of water. 40 of them get a cheeseburger and fries, 9 of them order steaks, and drink beers, and one person orders everything on the menu, include several bottles of very expensive wine. The bill comes, and the guy who ordered everything wants to split the bill evenly, and you think that is fair?
Originally posted by Night Star
If I were rich, I can't imagine ever being so greedy that I would not want to be taxed more. The lower and middle class have paid way more than their fair share.
It's not greed to want to keep what you earn.
It's not greed to expect others to earn their own keep.
It's not greed to expect the gov't not to waste tax money and to use it more wisely.
It's not greed to want to be free from slavery to the state.
Oh .. and the top earners in this country pay almost all the taxes.
The bottom 43% pay NO TAXES at all.
So your statement that the lower class has paid 'more than their fair share' is dead wrong.
They pay NOTHING.
The only fair tax is a flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage.
That way those that work and earn money aren't raped with paying too much
and those that do nothing aren't rewarded with a free ride on the back of the
tax payers (which are mostly paid by the upper 2% in the country.)
reply to post by BigTimeCheater
To nail off these other moronic claims you have made.
Bailouts which primarily go to the super rich. Entitlement programs which go almost exclusively to support illegal immigrants who serve the super rich. Yes, I did point out where these entitlement programs are going.
Do the math, 20% of $50k is what? Two income earning household making a $100k pays what in taxes?
At what point does the ignorance of this argument sink in? If you think China is the perfect business environment, why don't you go live there. Tell me how that works out. Personally, I would rather live in a first world nation rather than some third world hell hole where there are no individual rights. What do all first world nations have in common? Unionized labor.
If you bothered to look at per capita GDP, you would notice a significant advantage nations with unions and business regulation have over nations without those standards.
To nail off these other moronic claims you have made.
Tax dollars are being wasted on everything from bailouts to unconstitutional entitlement programs.
Bailouts which primarily go to the super rich. Entitlement programs which go almost exclusively to support illegal immigrants who serve the super rich. Yes, I did point out where these entitlement programs are going.
The average working guy doesnt send tens of thousands of dollars to the feds. Not even close. Your little fallacy is laughable at best, downright stupid at worst.
Do the math, 20% of $50k is what? Two income earning household making a $100k pays what in taxes?
Manufacturing is relocated offshore for numerous reasons, chiefly among them being that there is too much governmental interference in private business. Add in demands placed on business by retarded labor unions who want obscenely high wages for low to no skill jobs, and an ever growing tax burden, businesses are left with no choice but to move offshore if they wish to remain profitable.
At what point does the ignorance of this argument sink in? If you think China is the perfect business environment, why don't you go live there. Tell me how that works out. Personally, I would rather live in a first world nation rather than some third world hell hole where there are no individual rights. What do all first world nations have in common? Unionized labor.
If you bothered to look at per capita GDP, you would notice a significant advantage nations with unions and business regulation have over nations without those standards.
reply to post by FlyersFan
It is greedy to keep what you don't earn, and to expect others to pay for what you get.
The super rich feed at the government tough, why should the middle class pay for it?
How is it that so many people are so stupid that they don't see this. Have you ever heard of K street in Washington DC? These corporations don't spend millions and probably billions of dollars on lobbying for nothing.
Once again, the bottom 43% of income earners are kids and retirees. See link in post above.
It is greedy to keep what you don't earn, and to expect others to pay for what you get.
The super rich feed at the government tough, why should the middle class pay for it?
How is it that so many people are so stupid that they don't see this. Have you ever heard of K street in Washington DC? These corporations don't spend millions and probably billions of dollars on lobbying for nothing.
Once again, the bottom 43% of income earners are kids and retirees. See link in post above.
reply to post by poet1b
cough cough, lie lie, cough cough.
Here is the PROBLEM with you and the government argument!
Wages are NOT income, PERIOD! There are numerous Supreme Court decisions to further my postulate.
NOW, if you are talking about TRUE income, profit made from investment of sale of material, FINE and DANDY. But YOU are not talking about THAT are you? You are talking about redistribution of wealth. You are talking about STEALING labor. You are are talking about SLAVERY!
If you are talking about TRUE income, which is defined as the sale or profit made from the transfer of wealth from one transaction to another, THAT would be FINE.
BUT THAT, is not what you are talking about. You are talking about CONTROL. You are talking about Communism. Tell us the truth. You have been PUSHING your idea of communism for the last year as far as I can tell.
You believe the government should own everything and that people should PAY for the right to survive, you are just another slave master, just like the ones you are attempting to replace.
Slave master!
cough cough, lie lie, cough cough.
Here is the PROBLEM with you and the government argument!
Wages are NOT income, PERIOD! There are numerous Supreme Court decisions to further my postulate.
NOW, if you are talking about TRUE income, profit made from investment of sale of material, FINE and DANDY. But YOU are not talking about THAT are you? You are talking about redistribution of wealth. You are talking about STEALING labor. You are are talking about SLAVERY!
If you are talking about TRUE income, which is defined as the sale or profit made from the transfer of wealth from one transaction to another, THAT would be FINE.
BUT THAT, is not what you are talking about. You are talking about CONTROL. You are talking about Communism. Tell us the truth. You have been PUSHING your idea of communism for the last year as far as I can tell.
You believe the government should own everything and that people should PAY for the right to survive, you are just another slave master, just like the ones you are attempting to replace.
Slave master!