Removing my belief system from my life (Bible, Cross and American Flag)

Originally posted by MITSwagger
reply to post by Chinesis

 

It's not a crime to do these thing's. But it does get you labeled.


EDIT: The fact that you hold onto such policy can be judged by anyone as a agent. When have you ever heard of something such as "Justice"?

edit on 15-11-2010 by MITSwagger because: (no reason given)

This explanation is much more detailed and explains your point of view, thank you.
A buddy of mine went to a "Rally."
He was followed, and subsequently interviewed by an agent of DHS.

reply to post by paxnatus


Please do not call me names.

Yes I have studied "the Bible" however, it was never translated correctly, has books missing and yes, in my opinion, and I am allowed one, mainly a book of fairytales.

Again, do not call someone jaded just because they don't agree with your views.

Originally posted by paxnatus
It is a shame you are so jaded. Funny how you profess you have done all this research, and yet, the one book you fail to mention you've researched is the Bible, and then again you claim it as a fairy tale? i would simply like to ask, based on what?? Your own biblical studies, or the lies you've been spoon fed by your gods and goddess's to deceive and manipulate you?

Calling someone a name isn't a Christian value, is it?

I was brought up and became a devout Catholic.
When I uncovered the lies of this Church/Religion I was done.
Next, I studied "Christianity" I soon felt I was reborn and that I had found God.
However...*I* found out the truth (which is Self Evident)

It is quite obvious to me...that the buck (for you) stopped at the "Bible."

Originally posted by paxnatusYour researched is flawed based on your reasoning to draw your own conclusions. The very thing you accuse Christians of you yourself are guilty of.

(1) Your reasoning and justification for your opinion is heavily flawed.
(2) Her research has spanned a plethora of written works, as has my own.
(3) My results are inherent in my intuition and empirical evidence -reaffirmed after finding out the truth.
(4) Most (not all) self proclaimed Christians do NOT live a Christ-like life.


-They are not humble and unconditional loving (as I am)
-They do not offer themselves to a higher purpose
-They do not live selfless and will absolve their own guilt via false vessels and instruments such as:
-Money/tiff/offering/holy pay-off
-They give money to charities yet claim tax write-offs and feel they are "blessed"
-They claim to live for Christ yet have countless sexual encounters while wearing the cross 'round their neck.

These ^^^ are not accusations based on assumptions dear friend.
THIS is factual testimony from one who has witnessed these and much more.

Originally posted by paxnatusIt really is quite simple, ask Christ to reveal Himself to you in a very real way, and He will, but you must be prepared to recognize it when He does.
Bottom line is when you have communed with the living God, you will know! Not by your intellect but by your heart. It will change who you are. There will be know doubt, you will know! The scales will forever be removed from your eyes.

This must be allegorical in nature, right?
Have you considered that your true wisdom, and own personal intuitions are your
spiritual self "talking" to you? How do you know?

Pax, did you bother to see the videos on this thread page?

If the bible is truth to you:
Please tell me how the story of Abraham (baby in the river)
was lifted from the Epic of Gilgamesh (find out just how many hundreds of years before too)
The 10 commandments were lifted from the Book of the Dead -Ancient Egypt: predating the bible...

Is it just coincidence that an immaculate conception, birth, death admonishment and resurrection
of a being came to pass in Ancient Egypt mythology...then reappear in the bible (guess how long after) ?

The bible features more than one God.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but I cannot understand how a jealous, angry and vengeful God
could commit mass murder and genocide, trick someone into almost killing their son
just to test their worth? (Among other things)

The bible is subject to interpretation.
This means what it states.
Do you know who wrote the Gospel, who actually founded Christianity?
(Hint: it wasn't Jesus)

Many fathers and preachers have been thoroughly destroyed verbally
when they've chosen to discuss the merits of the bible with me due to my
knowledge on the subject matter.

Perhaps it's time to look outside, and see the bigger world that envelops you?

reply to post by Chinesis


First I realized I called her jaded and I took for granted that she would understand I meant her point of view based on her on words regarding ALL organized religion namely Christianity. I humbly apologize for the name calling.

Now about these quotes:

(3) My results are inherent in my intuition and empirical evidence -reaffirmed after finding out the truth. (4) Most (not all) self proclaimed Christians do NOT live a Christ-like life. -They are not humble and unconditional loving (as I am) -They do not offer themselves to a higher purpose -They do not live selfless and will absolve their own guilt via false vessels and instruments such as: -Money/tiff/offering/holy pay-off -They give money to charities yet claim tax write-offs and feel they are "blessed" -They claim to live for Christ yet have countless sexual encounters while wearing the cross 'round their neck.

These ^^^ are not accusations based on assumptions dear friend. THIS is factual testimony from one who has witnessed these and much more.

Your right, these are not accusations these are judgments. These are also gross generalizations of your misinterpretation of what a Christian is.

And whom are you? What gives you the right to judge me or anything about my life oh highly enlightened one?

I have witnessed life changing events in my own life so I know Christ is real. You are free to believe in what you wish as am I. If you would like a formal debate I would be more than happy to take you on in the proper forum.

But in all your knowledge, you seem to have forgotten one very important point, my friend. All will fall short of the glory of God. You see, Christ did NOT come for the Saints, he came for you and me and all of mankind, THE SINNERS! The thieves, the rapists, the adulterers, the liars, the cheaters, the murderer's, poor, rich, etc.......Sin is Equal in God's eyes, no one is any better or any worse...... if you have failed to grasped that one point than you have failed to understand Christianity.

If you want a perfect example of Christ than you must look at Christ not man. Don't look at me or anyone else look to Him.

Please explain where the bible speaks of there being more than one God? You must shae this.

Thanks,
Pax

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by paxnatus

 

Please do not call me names.

Yes I have studied "the Bible" however, it was never translated correctly, has books missing and yes, in my opinion, and I am allowed one, mainly a book of fairytales.

Again, do not call someone jaded just because they don't agree with your views.

I did not mean you are a jaded person, I meant your point of view is jaded based on your post. Please accept my humble apology.

reply to post by Archangelelijah


Beautiful response.

Originally posted by Chinesis
-They are not humble and unconditional loving (as I am)
-They do not offer themselves to a higher purpose
-They do not live selfless and will absolve their own guilt via false vessels and instruments such as:
-Money/tiff/offering/holy pay-off
-They give money to charities yet claim tax write-offs and feel they are "blessed"
-They claim to live for Christ yet have countless sexual encounters while wearing the cross 'round their neck.

These ^^^ are not accusations based on assumptions dear friend.
THIS is factual testimony from one who has witnessed these and much more.

Ok lets be honest here. You aren't a "witness" to any of these things. If you are, then you must be the first person in the history of the world who can read minds and see what it is that resides in their heart. Really though, the last one had me cracking up. You serious? You must watch a lot of porn to be able to make that assumption.

Originally posted by paxnatusYour right, these are not accusations these are judgments. These are also gross generalizations of your misinterpretation of what a Christian is. And whom are you?
What gives you the right to judge me or anything about my life oh highly enlightened one?

How you carry yourself paints a different picture than the one you are stating...
2nd, an accusation implies I'm unknowing of what I've just said.
I never said anything of you, yet you take offense? Really?
Who am I? I am one who takes a good hard look in the mirror and makes
certain my house is in order before observing, and commenting on a false Christian's attributes.
(Specifically the one's I've lived with, witnessed and have extensively studied at how they live their lives)

Originally posted by paxnatusI have witnessed life changing events in my own life so I know Christ is real. You are free to believe in what you wish as am I. If you would like a formal debate I would be more than happy to take you on in the proper forum.

There needn't be a debate. A discussion is what a humble person initiates.
A non-believer isn't any higher, nor are they any lower than yourself.
I do believe there is a Creator. After extensive research and due diligence...

The bible is a lifted unoriginal work, not only carefully compiled by those who
omitted other books, but zero empirical data can conclude Jesus ever existed
while many other less prominent figures depicted in our World's history are readily found.

Originally posted by paxnatusBut in all your knowledge, you seem to have forgotten one very important point, my friend. All will fall short of the glory of God. You see, Christ did NOT come for the Saints, he came for you and me and all of mankind, THE SINNERS! The thieves, the rapists, the adulterers, the liars, the cheaters, the murderer's, poor, rich, etc.......Sin is Equal in God's eyes, no one is any better or any worse...... if you have failed to grasped that one point than you have failed to understand Christianity.

If you want a perfect example of Christ than you must look at Christ not man. Don't look at me or anyone else look to Him. Please explain where the bible speaks of there being more than one God?

A humble yet wise man will know he will never know everything.
*I* have an amazing open mind that allows me to decide for myself based on having
no invested personal ties to my beliefs (the problem with most Christians)

While the bible has indeed lifted works (you failed to refute in your post)
it has many wise teachings. Teachings I have come to inherently agree with.

I cannot (and never have) unequivocally stated the biblical God(s) don't exist.
There is just ZERO proof of their existence. You can please spare me of the
assertions that the World is so beautiful it must have been created by God.

It doesn't explain a single thing other than showing me "more" beLIEf based opinions.

God didn't create a newborn baby, did he?
Does God answer your prayers yet allows you exercise "Free Will?"
The fact that God talks to you and not to me imply you are more special than me?

I have had the most traumatic dealings with "death" and
I've lost my mother, the most important thing in my entire life.

She was the most virtuous, most devout Catholic I've ever known, she was
literally a modern say Saint. God NEVER spoke to me and I sacrificed my
entire life for her. The truest most pure thing is the sacrifice for someone you love.

I'm completely selfless, yet your God doesn't have the time for me?
The fact is I think God doesn't talk to you.
I think events happen in your life that you attribute to "God."

I was unable to find my documentation which shows more than one God
in the bible, but when I do find it I will most certainly post it!

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
Ok lets be honest here. You aren't a "witness" to any of these things. If you are, then you must be the first person in the history of the world who can read minds and see what it is that resides in their heart. Really though, the last one had me cracking up. You serious? You must watch a lot of porn to be able to make that assumption.

The fact is...I am honest 100% of the time.
I, through my own spiritual path and enlightenment do not lie.
It wasn't Jesus Christ that did this either.
I am responsible for my own actions and mis/fortune.

2nd, I would never bear false witness against a brother/sister nor a neighbor.
I believe in you reap what you sow which is why my unconditional love's grasp is limitless in nature.

Last, I don't read minds. I'm not psychic.
The truth is people (in general) LIE just to get through the day. (I don't)
I respect the truth and don't "take things personal" because:

*I* know my self worth...
*I* know where my intent sits
*I* feel empathy and compassion for people.
*I* don't know everything but I do know people, very well.

Unfortunately I also bear witness to many "sins" being committed
while these Christians feel a prayer, an offering, or an illegitimate apology will cleanse their soul.
God knows true intent.

Do you think I have to look inside a person's soul? -This is what satire and naivety does!
When all I did was witness, cheating, adultery, theft, AND
when I talked to these people, based on their revealing responses, involuntary muscle
movements being able to discern a fraud versus a true believer is something I can do
while in my sleep.

I don't like it when people assume.
This is why I'm able to find out the facts, because I have the efficacy to ask
the appropriate questions in a certain order which tells me all I need to know.

See, here's something for you to consider.
When a person writes their thoughts, feelings, whatever...

They tell the truth!

If I meant to say a person's point of view was jaded, I wouldn't have had to say
"It is a shame YOU are so jaded." I would have said, your post is jaded and here is why...

A logical thinker would know their opinions and feelings do not comprise the person.
A logical thinker would know these are mere extensions of the person.

Frankly I didn't find her post:
dull
apathetic
lacking enthusiasm nor did I feel
she lacked positive experiences in her life that seeped onto her posts?

Originally posted by Chinesis
The fact is...I am honest 100% of the time.

Cannot be proven to me. I'll just take your word on that.

I am responsible for my own actions and mis/fortune.

As am I, next.....

2nd, I would never bear false witness against a brother/sister nor a neighbor.
I believe in you reap what you sow which is why my unconditional love's grasp is limitless in nature.

I would never believe anyone who has told me they have never in their life, lied. But I am a cynic so sue me.

Last, I don't read minds. I'm not psychic.

You do understand why I said you would have to read peoples minds/see inside their hearts right? Just because one "says" they are a christian or wears a cross around their neck, means nothing. Its in their actions that prove they are a christian. This is why I called you out on that BS.

The truth is people (in general) LIE just to get through the day. (I don't)
I respect the truth and don't "take things personal" because:

*I* know my self worth...
*I* know where my intent sits
*I* feel empathy and compassion for people.
*I* don't know everything but I do know people, very well.

yes I know people well too but do you see the contradiction in your statements at all? You claim to know your intent and only you would know that so how would you be able to know someone else's intent?

Unfortunately I also bear witness to many "sins" being committed
while these Christians feel a prayer, an offering, or an illegitimate apology will cleanse their soul.
God knows true intent.

Just christians huh? Something tells me you have a deep seeded hatred for "christians". If its not hatred it just sounds like jealousy to me.

Do you think I have to look inside a person's soul? -This is what satire and naivety does!
When all I did was witness, cheating, adultery, theft, AND
when I talked to these people, based on their revealing responses, involuntary muscle
movements being able to discern a fraud versus a true believer is something I can do
while in my sleep.

Ok so you talked to some people. both sides or just one side? 2 sides to every story.

I don't like it when people assume.
This is why I'm able to find out the facts, because I have the efficacy to ask
the appropriate questions in a certain order which tells me all I need to know.

And yet, you assume in your post by declaring Chrisitans are undoubtedly the only ones who do such transgressions.

See, here's something for you to consider.
When a person writes their thoughts, feelings, whatever...

They tell the truth!

Yup, practice what you preach.

If I meant to say a person's point of view was jaded, I wouldn't have had to say
"It is a shame YOU are so jaded." I would have said, your post is jaded and here is why...

A logical thinker would know their opinions and feelings do not comprise the person.
A logical thinker would know these are mere extensions of the person.

Frankly I didn't find her post:
dull
apathetic
lacking enthusiasm nor did I feel
she lacked positive experiences in her life that seeped onto her posts?

I can't answer for the other person. When I see ignorance, I must deny it as is the responsibility of all ATS posters. What you have shown, is that you are the ultimate critic, of yourself and others. You are no different than anybody on this planet that is trying to find their way. For you to single out one group, namely Christians, leads me to believe you either have an agenda, or are trolling.

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
I would never believe anyone who has told me they have never in their life, lied. But I am a cynic so sue me.

I don't even-
I never said nor implied that I've *NEVER LIED* (you did)
I've lied a million times, in fact I was a proficient master manipulator no question.
I had a Spiritual Awakening and in fact my mind, body and soul connect as one
is a good way of describing it. I am fully aware of my conscious and my self conscious
in such a connected way I am aware of my emotions, and as such: I control them.

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorYou do understand why I said you would have to read peoples minds/see inside their hearts right? Just because one "says" they are a christian or wears a cross around their neck, means nothing. Its in their actions that prove they are a christian. This is why I called you out on that BS.

I've bear witness to frauds as well as true believers.
You can try and attempt to state only they who (inside their selves/minds)
"know" their true intent for certain...I'm not buying...
I'm not interested in a shoulda coulda mentality.
I'm only interested in and see what they DO.

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrioryes I know people well too but do you see the contradiction in your statements at all? You claim to know your intent and only you would know that so how would you be able to know someone else's intent?

I haven't a clue what you're saying here.
My intent (for astute observers, critical thinkers and novices alike) can see my intent
in my actions because I don't deceive. A person's perception isn't exactly reality.
To them? It may be.

As for me? My intent is crystal clear and isn't hidden only for me to know for sure.
Contradiction debunked.

The conundrum is easily dissolved once you see the obviousness of human nature...
We do what we do because that's who we are.
If it comes to pass that a person suppresses who they are?
They aren't being true to themselves.

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorJust christians huh? Something tells me you have a deep seeded hatred for "christians". If its not hatred it just sounds like jealousy to me.

You read too much into things while not taking into account context.
Are you a journalist?

A (self proclaimed) Christian denigrated the character of someone who would be considered
a "Non-Believer" based on irrational feelings on the subject of the bible's authenticity
as well as derived religions and beliefs...This had nothing to do with singling out anyone or a group
as it did have to deal with the fact Christians adhere to rules and laws written through the voice
of God, yet (most) routinely break these commandments on a consistent basis whenever it suits there motives.

I know many non-believers who "sin" but do they see it as sinning? (No)
This doesn't mean their actions are ethically or morally justified. (not to me)

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorOk so you talked to some people. both sides or just one side? 2 sides to every story.

And yet, you assume in your post by declaring Chrisitans are undoubtedly the only ones who do such transgressions.

Both sides of what?
A women who commits adultery while married is a sin. What other side is there to "hear?"
A person who tells me they give to charity because of the tax write-off benefit and
because they feel better about themselves, and feel they are closer to God, and as a result
feel entitled they are given a pass to "Heaven" tells me much.

A person who steals, yet justifies their actions based on a false sense of
irresponsibility is a thief, no question. They feel they were ripped off so they
are compelled to take without paying due to their financial disposition=stealing.

2nd, who Assumed anything? (You, perhaps?)
I declared that these so called Christians that surround me specifically aren't real Christians
because they break the commandments, do not fellowship, and are inherently selfish!

See, if you didn't know an Atheist, Agnostic doesn't feel superior due to their belief.
While I could never attempt to speak for every Christian, I can speak on behalf of those
I was subjected to. I'm easy to talk to, and due to friendships with these people I was
able to extract their true feelings of people, their views and even intimate thoughts...

Not a big deal but someone who you had presumed to be so holy on one hand...
while on the other that gays and illegal Mexicans deserved to or were to burn in hell
because THEY passed judgment? =Not a true Christian. Make sense?

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorYup, practice what you preach.

I do. Please cite an example of the contrary.
Your posts don't come across as someone who is what I consider genuinely
seeking clarification -instead you seem bitter due to my view (based on fact) of Christians
in general (not all of them) and seem belligerent in content.

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorI can't answer for the other person. When I see ignorance, I must deny it as is the responsibility of all ATS posters. What you have shown, is that you are the ultimate critic, of yourself and others. You are no different than anybody on this planet that is trying to find their way. For you to single out one group, namely Christians, leads me to believe you either have an agenda, or are trolling.

It's sad you see things this way (which is ironic because)
YOU are passing the same type of mislabeling judgment you accuse me of doing.

Irony.

When it comes to myself, I am the ultimate critic.
When it comes to others they are in charge of their own life.

What I spoke of are my opinions I view as facts.
This is called personal knowledge which can be unique to one person -intuition.
To you it may be seen as an opinion. No problem.

I haven't an agenda but I do feel that if a group of people are to follow
God's Law....They should exemplify what those laws state to personify
with respect to a person's decorum.

I know for a fact I'm not better than anyone else.
However when a Christian presses their religious views on another person?
It isn't right, and neither is name calling.

reply to post by Chinesis

A (self proclaimed) Christian denigrated the character of someone who would be considered a "Non-Believer" based on irrational feelings on the subject of the bible's authenticity as well as derived religions and beliefs...This had nothing to do with singling out anyone or a group as it did have to deal with the fact Christians adhere to rules and laws written through the voice of God, yet (most) routinely break these commandments on a consistent basis whenever it suits there motives. I know many non-believers who "sin" but do they see it as sinning? (No) This doesn't mean their actions are ethically or morally justified. (not to me)

This post speaks to to how truly ignorant your point of view is when it comes to understanding Christianity. I would be the "self proclaimed" Christian you are referring to. I admitted I miss spoke my self and apologized. According to you if I claim to be a Christian and I make a mistake, then I must not be a Christian because I am not perfect.

As far as the rest of your post......Christians do not live and breathe by Old testament law, Jews do. Christians understand that Christ did not come to abolish the law but came to fulfill it.

NEWS FLASH All non-believers and believers SIN!!!! All of mankind sins everyday!! Take a good hard look in that mirror, you are a sinner saved by grace as am I.. Get over your self and your self righteousness! Your NOT perfect.

Originally posted by Chinesis
I don't even-
I never said nor implied that I've *NEVER LIED* (you did)

Nope sorry. I did not imply that you never lied. In fact, I wouldn't have to hear you say that because I know everyone lied/lies. You are putting words in my mouth. I stated an opinion of how I felt about the subject. guess you have a problem with it.

I've lied a million times, in fact I was a proficient master manipulator no question.
I had a Spiritual Awakening and in fact my mind, body and soul connect as one
is a good way of describing it. I am fully aware of my conscious and my self conscious
in such a connected way I am aware of my emotions, and as such: I control them.

You could be lying right now, for all I know. You really come off as someone who is out of touch with the human condition. Namely, the fact that people make mistakes. Everyday. yes, christians too.

I've bear witness to frauds as well as true believers.
You can try and attempt to state only they who (inside their selves/minds)
"know" their true intent for certain...I'm not buying...
I'm not interested in a shoulda coulda mentality.
I'm only interested in and see what they DO.

I still stand by my original statements.

I haven't a clue what you're saying here.
My intent (for astute observers, critical thinkers and novices alike) can see my intent
in my actions because I don't deceive. A person's perception isn't exactly reality.
To them? It may be.

Really? I take you for a smart person. I've seen your other posts on this site and they seem intelligent enough. Yet when it comes to spirituality for someone who claims to be so enlightened, I can't imagine how you could miss the mark. Either way, I still stand by my original statements.

As for me? My intent is crystal clear and isn't hidden only for me to know for sure.
Contradiction debunked.

There is nothing to debunk, because you cannot prove anything to me. You're spiritually sound. Check. You are able to see intent of a person. Check. You talk to people, make judgements. Check.

You read too much into things while not taking into account context.
Are you a journalist?

No.

A (self proclaimed) Christian denigrated the character of someone who would be considered
a "Non-Believer" based on irrational feelings on the subject of the bible's authenticity
as well as derived religions and beliefs...This had nothing to do with singling out anyone or a group
as it did have to deal with the fact Christians adhere to rules and laws written through the voice
of God, yet (most) routinely break these commandments on a consistent basis whenever it suits there motives.

I count one example, and it wasn't even a "name calling" It looked to me as if something was taken out of context. Maybe it wasn't said in the right way. Happens all the time around here. So what?

Both sides of what?
A women who commits adultery while married is a sin. What other side is there to "hear?"
A person who tells me they give to charity because of the tax write-off benefit and
because they feel better about themselves, and feel they are closer to God, and as a result
feel entitled they are given a pass to "Heaven" tells me much.

Ya it tells you people are misguided and don't always make the right decisions.

2nd, who Assumed anything? (You, perhaps?)
I declared that these so called Christians that surround me specifically aren't real Christians
because they break the commandments, do not fellowship, and are inherently selfish!

Ok..so by the actions you knew this right? Looks like we agree on something. Its more than someone just proclaiming themselves as such.

See, if you didn't know an Atheist, Agnostic doesn't feel superior due to their belief.
While I could never attempt to speak for every Christian, I can speak on behalf of those
I was subjected to. I'm easy to talk to, and due to friendships with these people I was
able to extract their true feelings of people, their views and even intimate thoughts...

Really? I dont' get that impression from you. You seem more eager to demonstrate you are superior to others, and by that you are allowed to cast judgment on others. Ok so people label themselves as such and don't always practice what they preach. So what? Everyone has done this. Just because there are few bad apples shouldnt spoil the whole bunch.

Not a big deal but someone who you had presumed to be so holy on one hand...
while on the other that gays and illegal Mexicans deserved to or were to burn in hell
because THEY passed judgment? =Not a true Christian. Make sense?

My cousin is gay, my friend is gay, I am mexican, My best friend is an atheist, my sister is bi,
There is absolutely nothing to prove to me here. I already know.

I do. Please cite an example of the contrary.

How could I? I don't even know you! I am just making a statement.

Your posts don't come across as someone who is what I consider genuinely
seeking clarification -instead you seem bitter due to my view (based on fact) of Christians
in general (not all of them) and seem belligerent in content.

No, you made a stupid comment. Ridiculous, rather. You could have said, ok maybe I made a mistake and maybe generalized a little bit but instead you would rather talk about how your spiritual enlightenment allows you to see the deeds of others and be able to pass judgment. Look again what you originally posted to Pax.
Ill give you an example of what not to say:

All atheists are immoral
Only atheists commit crime
Atheists are porn addicts, I know this because I talk to them and see what they do.
Atheists support communism.

Do you see why this is stupid to group people together like that. Yes I know, Atheists don't subscribe to a way of life that all follow, but this is the point I was trying to make. You were generalizing.

It's sad you see things this way (which is ironic because)
YOU are passing the same type of mislabeling judgment you accuse me of doing.

Whats wrong with calling you out on a stupid comment? You do this too don't you? Ya you did, countless times on that "apology to china" thread.

Irony.

yes extremely ironic.

I haven't an agenda but I do feel that if a group of people are to follow
God's Law....They should exemplify what those laws state to personify
with respect to a person's decorum.

Well as far as I know, no christian is Jesus. Hence, they will make mistakes until the grave. Everyone does this, police if you will, but don't be surprised if you get called out on stuff too. Like, just now.

I know for a fact I'm not better than anyone else.
However when a Christian presses their religious views on another person?
It isn't right, and neither is name calling.

Agreed. I believe the post was taken out of context. Why you and that other person felt there was name calling, I don't understand. I thought Pax said the post was jaded. People are really sensitive these days. Being mexican, I can tell you about "name calling". But I won't even go there because, it doesn't even bother me.

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
Nope sorry. I did not imply that you never lied. In fact, I wouldn't have to hear you say that because I know everyone lied/lies. You are putting words in my mouth. I stated an opinion of how I felt about the subject. guess you have a problem with it.

OK, what does this quote (below say?) or (mean)
and why or how is it relevant?

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorI would never believe anyone who has told me they have never in their life, lied. But I am a cynic so sue me.

Why would you even present this statement *IF* it is entirely irrelevant especially
when *I* stated (first) that: I don't lie. Did you post this for the sake of posterity?

It doesn't matter in the end because if that is your opinion that
no one could ever tell the truth (from birth to death) I would have to agree with that!
It's true. Even when I learned lying was wrong, I still did it. I experienced a life altering change
that affected my "intent." This is why I no longer lie. A very basic premise to understand
(even if you disagree with it) since it is your right to question, and have your own opinion

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorYou could be lying right now, for all I know. You really come off as someone who is out of touch with the human condition. Namely, the fact that people make mistakes. Everyday. yes, christians too.

This is true. For all "you know" I could be lying.
It's conceivable for you to arrive at this measure of disbelief but how then do
you arrive at such a blind faith that THAT (your faith) is more real than my truth which is physical reality
rather than your own perception (which precludes empirical evidence)

It seems YOU have a problem with that.
Everyone makes mistakes, I know this more than anyone.
However, I can tell you I do NOT lie. I just now think I know why (it doesn't sit well with you) :

Could it be that your bible tells you all humans lie, and that by stating I don't lie
this is somehow blasphemous to you and your faith? -Which then offends you?-
Hmmmmm.

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorThere is nothing to debunk, because you cannot prove anything to me. You're spiritually sound. Check. You are able to see intent of a person. Check. You talk to people, make judgements. Check.

I do not think you know what the word judgment means?
In one sense I internally evaluate.
I do this with everything I encounter because of my innate ability to problem solve
in getting to the root issue/catalyst for something. What I don't do is prematurely
conclude with supreme infallibility that these so called Christians are:

-horrible people
-going to hell
-don't speak/talk to God

How would I never claim to know what is unknowing?
People misappropriate, and use their immature and premature prejudices to come to a conclusion
about someone.

I am friends with all of these people you feel I slammed in some sort of disrespectful manner.

In the end the bible speaks CLEARLY about what a God fearing, humble servant of God is
supposed to be...Clearly these people don't fit the bill, and that doesn't mean they won't change
or realise the error in their ways.

You are clearly wrong in that my observations perfectly illustrate that these people
go against the bible's teachings. A person who is spiritual in nature would be slow to anger
and slow to hurt someone else, yet these people do NOT exemplify these attributes
which can only be attained through spiritual enlightenment, not religion alone.

While yes everyone makes mistakes God is very clear about sin and a person's intent to sin.
An absolution of sin does the sinner ZERO good when these sins continuously show a person's
blatant disregard for upholding God's laws.

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorI count one example, and it wasn't even a "name calling" It looked to me as if something was taken out of context. Maybe it wasn't said in the right way. Happens all the time around here. So what?

No doubt she apologised (after) the person (who was insulted via an ad hominem attack)
brought it to her attention. The person who wrote the term Jaded did so exactly how
she conveyed her message with zero edits while she was online.

Are you honestly trying to defend the name call, by saying that since it wasn't
akin to saying you're so stupid, or dumb, or you're such an idiot therefore
it wasn't name calling to have someone (who obviously disagrees with your factual research)
as apathetic, boring, lacking enthusiasm? Why would a person need to feel enthused
posting videos as well as facts that would question many preconceived/established
(and never questioned) Christian faith-based views on the origins of Christ, the bible and the
books contained therein?

It's simple: It seems you look for any kind of excuse to allow this behaviour of name calling
yet you aggressively respond to me quickly in an (attempt) to discredit me and my
honest factually based assertions: I don't lie and so called Christians' intentions are
readily on display for most anyone to uncover just by taking a closer look.

When people write: They don't lie.

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorYa it tells you people are misguided and don't always make the right decisions.

One mistake, I agree.
Even making the (premeditated mistake) a 2nd time, letting selfishness and personal
emotions control you...I can see that, and have done that.
However...a person who keeps on doing this, creating babies with multiple fathers'
(who aren't there for the birth, let alone support) does not view their body as a sacred
temple, no and you cannot tell me that she/he does either.

See, everything (I hope you know) comes down to:
-Choice
-Consequence(s) of that choice...

You cannot say a person keeps on cheating because they just cannot help themselves.
They need the lord's guidance, sure...if they're not already considering themselves: A Christian!

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorOk..so by the actions you knew this right? Looks like we agree on something. Its more than someone just proclaiming themselves as such.

Of course! I agree it's more than words (usually)
The reason why I say this is I know a few people who do not convey emotions.
They don't speak nor socialise. Yet they are very devoted to God.

Even then, sure I don't know squat about their true intentions! (Yes, I said it)
How I come to this conclusion is simple:
-They love and create positivity.
-They are selfless and never take when given the opportunity
-They are humble, slow to speak as well as anger.

As long as they don't commit hurtful acts against another person (which hurts us all I feel)
then I'm good. I'm not psychic or any of that stuff (I don't believe in it) BUT...
I am empathic, which just means I feel I am in tune with people and sense unhappiness.

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorReally? I dont' get that impression from you. You seem more eager to demonstrate you are superior to others, and by that you are allowed to cast judgment on others. Ok so people label themselves as such and don't always practice what they preach. So what? Everyone has done this. Just because there are few bad apples shouldnt spoil the whole bunch.

I see your point of view and understand how you come to that conclusion, I really do.

I'm not eager to demonstrate anything other than to offer a different perspective
(other than) people's general views that:
-Only through Christ can yee be saved. -This is simply not entirely true as it is truth to YOU.
-I don't even mention anything until some person of Christian Faith attempts to single me, or another out
based on their (lack of) faith....which is disingenuous at best and selfish.

When I used to fellowship with people I always offered them a choice.
God offers us a choice. Why not afford a non-believer the same choice?

The fact you perceive me as supreme to others means there is something within you
that has negotiated this within your mind to make it so and manifest.

My question to you is why?
I don't hate anyone, nor do I feel anyone (nor any group) is better than another.
I genuinely and unconditionally love people and do NOT lie.
This means and implies everyone is subject to their own way of life with impunity
just as long as they don't infringe upon the rights of another. (which sparked my initial reply)
If anything I can say I follow God's teachings and have even sacrificed my life for another
and would do it again if it came to be. I value my life because I am here but I do NOT
feel my life is a higher priority than another.

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorNo, you made a stupid comment. Ridiculous, rather. You could have said, ok maybe I made a mistake and maybe generalized a little bit but instead you would rather talk about how your spiritual enlightenment allows you to see the deeds of others and be able to pass judgment. Look again what you originally posted to Pax.
Ill give you an example of what not to say:
All atheists are immoral
Only atheists commit crime
Atheists are porn addicts, I know this because I talk to them and see what they do.
Atheists support communism.

My enlightenment allows me the clarity to avoid committing sins that God has said not to do (Simple)
My enlightenment has nothing to do with seeing the deeds of others.
Growing up surrounded by murderers, cheats, liars, thieves, and BS'ers I learned.
Seeing the deeds of others doesn't equal Judgment, look up the word please.
Seeing the deeds is confirmation, not of mistakes but of constant sin.
*A mistake cannot keep happening and still be called a mistake*

Your analogy is a joke right?
I never said ALL Christians are______
It appears you like to omit the words: Generalisation; in general, most (which doesn't say ALL) does it?
I know of Christians who abuse their faith, and their positions to touch our youths inappropriately.
This doesn't say all, and now I have to question your deduction skills, which is sad.
Please show me where I said "All" pertaining to ALL Christians.

You negated my response which was the sole reason for responding to a Christian.
It has substance, you just chose to avoid it. I wonder why?

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorWhats wrong with calling you out on a stupid comment? You do this too don't you? Ya you did, countless times on that "apology to china" thread.

A Christian doesn't call someone else's comment "Stupid."
Or are you just using the Screen name End time Warrior to allow you to troll
people who YOU assume are against the book, and your faith out of spite or jealousy?

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorWell as far as I know, no christian is Jesus. Hence, they will make mistakes until the grave. Everyone does this, police if you will, but don't be surprised if you get called out on stuff too. Like, just now.

People who "call out" people love to argue.
I love to discuss.
I don't mind a person disagreeing with me just as long as they know how to properly refute
something I've said and know how to respectfully offer a retort that doesn't insult them.

I'm not even sure you're a Christian if you get so easily angered at the opposition?

Originally posted by The Endtime WarriorAgreed. I believe the post was taken out of context. Why you and that other person felt there was name calling, I don't understand. I thought Pax said the post was jaded. People are really sensitive these days. Being mexican, I can tell you about "name calling". But I won't even go there because, it doesn't even bother me.

I failed to see you post in any of the recent Depression Threads so
name calling isn't anything to write about in contrast to much worse predisposed environmental causalities.

I'm passionate about people period.
Through your own action(s) it seems you aren't a humble Christian if you have to justify
the denigration of another person's character just to make a point that has more
holes than the Moon's surface.

People are really sensitive these days is another futile attempt
at a passive-aggressive persona I don't identify with.

I don't think you're able to cope with the fact I don't lie.
I don't think you're able to deal with the fact Christians lie just as much as non Christians (which was the point)
A Christian is held to a higher standard regardless of their denomination due to their
enlightenment attained through reading scripture in addition to having a relationship with God.

A non-believer is what a Christian should want to acquire, and conceivably teach
the word of God to administer fellowship so that the non-believer will begin
a resolute foundation to grow their faith into a seed of everlasting life.

You do God a huge disservice the way you speak to people who disagree with you.
Bummer

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
I'm very close to throwing my 200 year old family bible, on display under the cross, in the trash can
Newer bible for reading on top (Because the 200 year old version has brittle pages)

Removing the cross hanging on the wall, inside the front doorway

And removing my American Flag over my front entrance way

Is this a mistake?

If so why?

Am I clinging onto outdated ideas?

edit on 14-11-2010 by In nothing we trust because: (no reason given)

I can't tell you what to do.

perhaps you need to do it for a lesson or to realize something....don't ask me what the lesson would be, you'll have to find out.

I got a buddy, 45yrs fiends, who did "his time" at the cadillac church as a choir boy and has no need of such things....I think he threw the baby out with the bath water...but I don't make a constant issue out of it.

people have to seek their own path and deal with the outcome all on their own....

reply to post by Chinesis


Christian or not, I know a troll when I see one. Have a good day


oh btw. I won't be back to see what you respond with. So don't even bother. And if you do, it just means you like playing with yourself. Masturbate much? Toodles!

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
reply to post by Chinesis

 

Christian or not, I know a troll when I see one. Have a good day

oh btw. I won't be back to see what you respond with. So don't even bother. And if you do, it just means you like playing with yourself. Masturbate much? Toodles!

I know you will.
In fact this comment I wanted to quote in case you attempt to change it.
Your so called "Christian" status has been tarnished due to your denigrating statements
made against someone who has just revealed your true intentions.

(The very definition of a troll) is you.
Pretty sad.
I will pray for you.

Originally posted by paxnatus
This post speaks to to how truly ignorant your point of view is when it comes to understanding Christianity. I would be the "self proclaimed" Christian you are referring to. I admitted I miss spoke my self and apologized. According to you if I claim to be a Christian and I make a mistake, then I must not be a Christian because I am not perfect.

So I am ignorant when it comes to understanding Christianity simply because
I stated what you did (committing a sin against your sister?)
Making a mistake is one thing, and doesn't denote an intent but clearly
how do you exercise judgment, and then don't even realise what you did/said to another person?
It doesn't sound like you are slow to speak, nor do you choose to words carefully as not to offend?

That's great you apologised.
I never stated you nullify your Christianity based on one mistake.
Your swift judgment has done so, and calling someone ignorant isn't Christian-like. Is it?

Originally posted by paxnatusNEWS FLASH All non-believers and believers SIN!!!! All of mankind sins everyday!! Take a good hard look in that mirror, you are a sinner saved by grace as am I.. Get over your self and your self righteousness! Your NOT perfect.

I know I am not perfect.
I also know that I don't lie, nor do I call my neighbor, or a stranger on the internet a name
just because of a simple disagreement.

I know that according to what the bible describes as sin, I can easily state I have sinned.
Because I haven't an ego -which you do. You hold yourself in a higher regard that other people.
You do not sound humble in the way a Christian should conduct their self so I do admit
I am hesitant to view you as Christian-like when your actions do not correlate to your status...

Is there another way to convey your disagreement with someone who disagrees with you
other than denigrate their character, or without insulting their educational background?

Don't be angry, please.
My description was based on what you did 1st.
Do you really think God just casts aside each transgression because you've
either apologised or have requested absolution? (He doesn't)

reply to post by Chinesis


Chinesis,

Oh great enlightened one! The one who DOES NOT LIE, nor call people out, nor judge or attack? You make very little sense to anyone on this thread. Do you know why? I will "enlighten" you. You contradict yourself with every sentence. You who does not dare tell a lie. Okay I will accept that because you gave an explanation of how lying in the past caused you a "life changing experience". So to say you do not lie, really misleads a person. The correct statement and the proper message you are trying to convey is you do not lie ANYMORE!!

Therefore you have completely misrepresented yourself which by your brilliant deductive reasoning applied to me must mean EVERYTHING which you have spoken is a misrepresentation. So we must then conclude and judge that you are disingenuous and selfish!!!! I mean if we measure everyone as equal.

You took what I stated in my first post completely out of context, and misquoted that I never apologized or even thought I had done wrong until it was pointed OUT to me, by you, over and over again. The one who claims that "A person whom calls one out when they are wrong just loves to argue. You on the other hand just like to discuss. Which is also wrong, there is something in the real world called accountability!!

As far as you accusing me of ad hominem you are blatantly wrong about me AGAIN!! My quote: After i said she seemed jaded.

I am not attacking you or intending to offend you at all, we will and must find out the truth on our own not from some other authors.

I do have one rhetorical question for you. If you DON'T LIE, and non believers and believers do? Who or what does that make you? God almighty himself? Yes I am sure you think you are divine in some regard, however, I am not seeing it.

Now since your post are nothing more than that of an un enlightened hypocritical narcissists I am done explaining myself to you. You are wasting my time. By the way just because you have an opinion and even though it is YOURS, it does not magically morph into fact.

Good day to you!

P.S.

And before I lay my head down tonight and I decide to ask God's forgiveness for the things I have said to you, because the Spirit truly moves in me to do so, guess what I will be forgiven. Sorry that disappoints you.

Originally posted by paxnatus
Oh great enlightened one! The one who DOES NOT LIE, nor call people out, nor judge or attack? You make very little sense to anyone on this thread.

I am nonsensical to those who are closed minded.
I am nonsensical to those who believe their "God" is the ONLY one true God, and all others are illusory frauds.
I am nonsensical to those who feel that when they die they are going to a special eternal place
while those that don't share your point of view, nor your radical beLIEf -will burn in eternal hell.
(I already got you beat and I've not even begun to decisively extricate the one-sided-ness of your posts.

You keep repeating (like a broken record, and a Parrot) how I am enlightened
and do not lie but you do so in an arrogant and self-defeating manner that just
makes you look more and more like a non-Christian, or one who routinely
commits transgressions against their brother. -Why is that so?
I don't need to type in such failed attempts at extracting an emotive response like: oh Holy Christian one?

Originally posted by paxnatusDo you know why? I will "enlighten" you. You contradict yourself with every sentence. You who does not dare tell a lie. Okay I will accept that because you gave an explanation of how lying in the past caused you a "life changing experience". So to say you do not lie, really misleads a person. The correct statement and the proper message you are trying to convey is you do not lie ANYMORE!!

The intent (my intent) shows I don't lie.
This statement will be taken by those who seek to undermine my statement without
asking for clarification -in the incorrect manner. One who doesn't ask does not receive do they?

It's not that I "dare not" tell a lie. It's that I've discovered lying
grows to other bad behavioural qualities and this I do not want in my life.
If you were mislead (wait for it) -I apologise for this. My intent is to live/be as transparent as possible.
-You on the other hand don't strike me (according to your posts) as one.
-On the other hand while I do believe everyone is equal...Your faith holds YOU to a
much higher standard (true or untrue?)

Originally posted by paxnatusTherefore you have completely misrepresented yourself which by your brilliant deductive reasoning applied to me must mean EVERYTHING which you have spoken is a misrepresentation. So we must then conclude and judge that you are disingenuous and selfish!!!! I mean if we measure everyone as equal.

This makes zero sense. Everything I speak is the truth.
If you're unable to handle the truth, or disagree would you like to know what a humble, servant
of God does? They refute these assertions with: Love, respect and most of all: they lead by example.
Can you say you lead by example by smiting your opponent with these incoherent
and rude assumptions that don't even begin to accurately portray my views?

You cannot hold me to a Godly standard I do not subscribe to but everyone -including
non-believers CAN hold you to your higher standard implied by God's teachings, do you see that?
You don't have to like it nor agree with it, but can you refute it?

I haven't concluded anything. Don't you see what I am saying?
Since you have failed to grasp this I will do the opposite of your fine examples of pontification exemplify...

-I gather and grow (and even change my opinion) of someone through their actions and their words.
Since your words are the direct manifestation of your thoughts I do not conclude (prematurely as you do)
-Instead...I am learning about you and finding out more and more about your true intent.

-Is your intent to teach and lead (by example) the way of God?
-Or is it your intent to argue (via positioning your reasoning around your faith) and the usage
of invoking God for your own personal agenda/actions whenever a disagreement is made????

Originally posted by paxnatusYou took what I stated in my first post completely out of context, and misquoted that I never apologized or even thought I had done wrong until it was pointed OUT to me, by you, over and over again. The one who claims that "A person whom calls one out when they are wrong just loves to argue. You on the other hand just like to discuss. Which is also wrong, there is something in the real world called accountability!!

When it comes to accountability: I am all knowing because I know when I make a mistake (not if) WHEN.
If I do miss my innate ability to identify with being responsible a kind (and humble) point in the right
direction would have me easily admit to my mistakes.

You are not being honest here Pax...
You called someone Jaded due to her disagreement with your point of view.
What is worse is YOU never took the time to refute her well presented evidence to refute YOUR opinions.
It is far easier to call someone a name (which is a deflection) rather than present
factual evidence to the contrary...

This isn't called Judgment...It is called an Observation in which the facts
support it! You are upset at me for what you did to another person (another child of God)
This doesn't sound Christian-like does it?

Unfortunately I cannot understand your point in the above because it is quite incoherent.
This is what happened, and please tell me what is wrong or incorrect:

Look at the time when she posted. Then look at your post which:
*you* called her Jaded (You didn't say her views were Jaded, you said SHE was Jaded (Y or N)
(Yes I know you apologised)

She then posted a response that said she didn't appreciate it.
YOU (after her post) humbly apologised but were you so humble when you called her Jaded
(fueled by a disagreement) no less? This was my point.
It shows (not conclusively) but it shows your intent and no effort on your part was made to edit
that post BEFORE she posted to you: that she didn't like being name called or labeled "Jaded."

Do you see that? Y or N please.

Originally posted by paxnatusAs far as you accusing me of ad hominem you are blatantly wrong about me AGAIN!! My quote: After i said she seemed jaded.

Exactly, after. NOT before: This is my point.
Yes I'm well aware of mistakes being made, however you are creating a (real time) papertrail of
empirical evidence that is changing my perception that you intentionally meant to call her Jaded.
This is a forum board and by the time it takes write Jaded your mind
should have realised it was wrong, and even then prior to hitting the reply button
your Intuition OR even GOD himself (since he talks to you right?) Should have told you
it was wrong of you to do so. -Again, another point.

Originally posted by paxnatusI am not attacking you or intending to offend you at all, we will and must find out the truth on our own not from some other authors.

I appreciate that and I agree with you on that.
(but then again: you don't take responsibility for your actions)

Originally posted by paxnatusI do have one rhetorical question for you. If you DON'T LIE, and non believers and believers do? Who or what does that make you? God almighty himself? Yes I am sure you think you are divine in some regard, however, I am not seeing it.

What is wrong with you Pax?
*I* am different than most people (Read: *I'm* NOT better than anyone else)
*I* am different because my life HAS ultimately changed my perception of myself.

If anyone else lies, this just means they aren't being honest.
It doesn't mean I am (Holy) (Anointed) or (Superior) (or Divine) than * because it is simply untrue.

I bask in the satisfaction knowing: I don't know it all and welcome experiences
that allow me to grow and transcend even further on the path to complete Spiritual Enlightenment.
I am human-I mess up. Nothing in my entire being makes me think less of myself for such an admission.
In fact it makes me stronger and reaffirms my suspicions I am here for a reason.

Originally posted by paxnatusNow since your post are nothing more than that of an un enlightened hypocritical narcissists I am done explaining myself to you. You are wasting my time. By the way just because you have an opinion and even though it is YOURS, it does not magically morph into fact.

Good day to you!

And before I lay my head down tonight and I decide to ask God's forgiveness for the things I have said to you, because the Spirit truly moves in me to do so, guess what I will be forgiven. Sorry that disappoints you.

Well, if your intentions are true and you humble yourself (not just before God but before people)
I'm sure God will forgive you. If you are just seeking redemption for personal/vein absolution
to make yourself feel better then he probably won't (based on his teachings)

It doesn't disappoint me at all because you are in control of
your own life (well sort of) -It's when you look down on others I have a problem with.

Since I am wasting your time:
Do you realise: You've just taken two steps back after taking one forward

A person (whom God created) wasted your time...
Amen. I haven't given up on you but I think we're done here.

Myth Debunked.