$1.5 Million Fine for Downloading 24 Songs

Originally posted by badgerprints
Once again,

Simple method.

No need to try and justify actions by arguing rights.

It's either legal or not.

Don't steal.

Technically even though i have purchased certain cd's i cannot legally download them from a P2P program. For exmaple i have a Michael Jackson album which is like 10 years old and it is scratched to high heaven. I didn't do that btw i leant it to a friend and his brother borrowed it from him and well he didn't treat it nicely. Now i would really like to replace that lost music, if i download legally i have to spend money for something i already own, if i download from P2P then by your logic i should be arrested. Even though i already paid for the thing once.

Just because something is illegal doesn't make it immoral. The law is very often at odds with justice.

Reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

I did not mean to make it like I am going off on you.

I am just sick and tired of hearing how it is equated to stealing X item.


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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


It does when you know what is going to happen before hand. Would you shove your hand in a burning fire? No, because you know you'd pull back a cindered, gimpy bulb. You know the risks... immoral or not, don't do it if you can't handle the repercussions.

Reply to post by badgerprints

You say don't steal. What exactly is stolen when one downloads a song?


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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Somebody's work. That's what. Work that has cost money to produce in one way or another. Time, money, etc. It's not stealing in the physical sense, but it is still stealing of IPR.

Originally posted by truthseeker1984
They have to prove that you indeed downloaded it onto your computer, and in order to do that they need a search warrant. The hardcore torrenters that I know use some sort of killswitch for their computer in order to destroy data in the event they are searched...a small price to pay to avoid a multi million dollar lawsuit.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. They will never restrict the free flow of data.

Sadly in the UK such a killswitch is illegal. A software killswitch that overwrites data won't work because if the police are knocking down your door then it won't have time to complete (despite what movies tell you an overwriting program doesn't complete in 30 seconds). The only way is a more destructive system which will leave plenty of evidence that you destroyed it recently. The police upon finding your computer will hit you with one of a number of laws. Either it will be destruction of evidence (they will presume guilt and argue it in court), or it will be perverting the course of justice, 4-18 months my friend, or longer depending on whether you get an angry judge. You could of course encrypt the drives but then if you don't give them the encryption key or you say you forgot it then you could face up to 2 years in prison.

The British legal system, screwing the people for the past 200 years, and truly rogering them in the last 10.

Originally posted by Neutradol
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

It does when you know what is going to happen before hand. Would you shove your hand in a burning fire? No, because you know you'd pull back a cindered, gimpy bulb. You know the risks... immoral or not, don't do it if you can't handle the repercussions.

edit on 5-11-2010 by Neutradol because: (no reason given)

Oh the irony

You are sitting here saying it's wrong to download copywritten material i have already paid for (not that i'm admitting to doing so) and yet your username is a registered trademark and therefore a protected term. It would be rather easy to argue that your postings could reflect on the Neutradol brand name and therefore, under law you could be liable. Unless of course you own that brand name in which case i retract this statement.

Reply to post by Neutradol

So you say that money was stolen?

How so?


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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by badgerprints

 

You say don't steal. What exactly is stolen when one downloads a song?

 

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I don't know why you guys don't get you are stealing something someone made to sell. Everyone always says "Oh they're rich anyway so what's the big deal." Most of the artists are not rich they work very hard to create this music that you love and how do you thank them... by stealing from them. Downloads from Amazon are only 99 cents a song, pay the price and get them legally.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


When did I say "Money" was stolen?

It was only a matter of time before the big boys tried to set a precedent. I just hope it works both ways, so when the little kids have music / art or lyrics stolen and distributed by the music industry we can sue them right back for $1.5m !

p.s you won't find my avatar anywhere but here as I made it specifically for ats

Originally posted by Soldier of God
I don't know why you guys don't get you are stealing something someone made to sell. Everyone always says "Oh they're rich anyway so what's the big deal." Most of the artists are not rich they work very hard to create this music that you love and how do you thank them... by stealing from them. Downloads from Amazon are only 99 cents a song, pay the price and get them legally.

I already have them legally on CD, i don't fancy paying around 4 thousand pounds to download them as well. Yet technically i would be committing a crime to download tracks via P2P even though i already own them. If you have a spare 4 grand then you're a lucky person.

As stated earlier, we are in a fast moving age where people are exposed to far more music than they used to be. therefore the costs needs to move with the times. Drop the track price to say 10 pence a track and watch piracy drop like a stone. But remember that many people pirate because they want to sample before they buy and while that is illegal it is not immoral. It is wrong to expect people to pay for something they then find is rather rubbish.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Drop the track price to say 10 pence a track and watch piracy drop like a stone. But remember that many people pirate because they want to sample before they buy and while that is illegal it is not immoral. It is wrong to expect people to pay for something they then find is rather rubbish.

Interesting point, does that mean if I'm not satisfied with a legitimate online music purchase I can return it - isn't that my rights as a consumer ?

reply to post by Neutradol



This is absurd. To brand anyone with such a fine, a fine that quite frankly laughs in the face of far more heinous crimes. You're telling me that I could commit violent acts against people? Or steal a hard-copy of the alleged data, and get off with a less severe punishment? Literally, I could go to Walmart, right now, and steal a CD, get caught, and walk away with nowhere near the same dimensions of "justice."

If there is to be a punishment for such things, it should be put into perspective. I've seen people run their cars through buildings, causing thousands of dollars in damage, endangering the lives of dozens with a vehicle, etc. Yet, they can walk away from that with not having to pay even 1% of the price that downloading 24 songs illegally. What kind of sense does that make?

These people take themselves too seriously, and the justice system humors them.

The System Has Failed You.

reply to post by Tetradeth


I see your point. But this is not new. These companies can sue/recouperate for whatever they want in a court of law (at least in the US & netherlands). That is why I say... if you walk into this stupid, and want to flaunt the law, expect a slap on the wrist, however harsh it may be.

Just don't whinge about it when it happens. I don't care if it's a billion dollars. Know what the risks are before you do something. No excuses, I'm afraid.

Oh... and just to make you point more precise.... yes, it would be better to ramraid Walmart and steal 24 albums and you'd get a more lenient punishment. But, heh... I don't make the law.

how is it stealing, the person bought the song and decided to share it online. the person owns it and can share it or loan it to whoever wants it.

One thing you have to remember is that the producers get most of the money, not the artists.

Also, to those of you who say that these people deserve to get sued: unhappybirthday.com...

Congratulation, you have most likely broken the law. Enjoy your lawsuit.

reply to post by triplereiki

Illegal downloaders spend MORE on music than those who obey the law

www.dailymail.co.uk...

the music industry is just shooting it self on the foot

Why Won't Universal Music Let You See The 20/20 Report From 1980 About How The Music Industry Is Dying?

www.techdirt.com... -dying.shtml

Yet Another Study Shows Musicians Making More Money

www.techdirt.com...

When You Realize That Copyright Law Violates Free Speech Rights, You Begin To Recognize The Problems...

www.techdirt.com...

Canadian Recording Industry Demands 45% Of Revenue; Then Blames 'Pirates' For No Streaming Music Services

www.techdirt.com... vices.shtml

i think this has alot less to do with file sharing and more to do with locking down the internet to a medium like television

Originally posted by PsykoOps
This and also this.

edit on 4/11/2010 by PsykoOps because: (no reason given)

WOW!!!! thanks for that, great stuff there.
I would have never guessed. imagine being Randy California...how much got stolen from him in the long run? millions upon millions......

reply to post by Neutradol


I understand what you're saying, but I don't think avoiding the circumstance is the solution. I, personally, don't believe that the issue is even worth the hassle, since recording artists make a majority of their sales from other facets anyway. If anything, this should lend a hand to innovation and make live shows much more spectacular. More bang for your buck, and vice-versa.

But this is like saying, if you stick your hand in my plate, I'll castrate you.

It just isn't proportionate, and it should be addressed. I chalk it up to displacement of morale, loss of humanity, and capital greed. Any decent article of intellectual property will garner appropriate attention, and the individuals that propagate them will receive due recognition. Not based on the silly price tag slapped on their work. It will be warranted on its own merit.

I'm sick of paying for a product and only getting half of what I want. Or paying top dollar for crap just because there is a small fraction within that sum that I have actual interest in. Now, I know you'll say something like, "Well, if you know you might get crap, then just stay away from it."

It seems a bit unfair to subject people to misleading advertisements and campaigns, and have them either accept it for all the crap it is, at their own expense, and have the companies continue to profit even though they continue to fail at providing; or completely dropout from the entire product. I'm not even going to go into the bullcrap about the people allegedly hurt by this having far more money than the average Joe to begin with.