There is No Devil!

Sorry for shouting in the title, but it's worth shouting out, because it's the good news, but I would purport for reasons other than we might assume at first blush, since I can already hear the potshots from the gallary from our friendly neighborhod atheists who will say, in a rather knee jerk way - of course not, because there's no God either.

But I would suggest instead, that, because there IS God, or what certain supergenious modern scientists like Irvin Laszlo referr to, as a fully informed and therefore, self aware (plenty of time in eternity for that) evolutionary framework, whereby the Absolute (with a capital A), instead of caprisciously adding to, and judging and slicing and dicing all along the way, is instead, so Supreme, and so Absolute (Zero Point Field Akashic Record), that it, he (Being also a "person" of sorts AS a self aware being) has "chosen" with an apparent intentionality, since there is always an attachment to an outcome, to manifest from the Absolute Perfection, a differentiated "experience" of life, in order for there to BE life, relative to that which is Absolute and can never die In other words, s sutraction from the absolute, Laszlo used the metaphor of white light breaking up into a full spectrum prism of manifest form. To further clarify, we ourselves, and our experience of life, is a byproduct of this process. If we live in an "Monistic Idealist" reality (consciousness is primary within a non-localized, holographic framework), instead of a "Materialist Monist" one, whereby matter alone is primary, separated and sliced and diced in a time-space, relativistic framework ie: no Absolute position of observation or awareness, dead, purposeless, meaningless, to which I would add, utterly absurd - then Aa it turns out, instead of being "nothing" of any significance whatsoever, we are the actual byproduct of this continual ongoing process of subtraction from the absolute and therefore represent the one manifestation of the object or the pursuit (and therefore the very purpose) of a long longggg process of cosmic evolutionary progression

Our life therefore, and every life, is a great gift, an oppurtunity, to actively participate in an ongoing creative process, and experience it, within an eternally unfolding present moment. We are emersed within it, and are given, if we would have but the courage, to stand relative to "it" (the all in all the everything, the one love), and therefore to God as the Absolute from which everything arises and has its being, transcending in the process even death itself, the imperishable in a perishable world of matter.

And this (the materialist monist, reletavistic paradigm) is not the life we actually experience, on all levels, including the subjective and the emotional. It's doesn't "grok" with what we know and feel to be true, and in truth, it's now outdated within the new paradigm of the the very latest findings of modern quantum mechanics as illuminated by people like Irvin Laszlo and Bernard Haisch, and others.

So I say that it is - BECAUSE of this reality, this truth, which surely CAN be proven, by the very sheer fact of our own existence within such an evolutionary, universal framwork (and I'm prepared to back up these assertions), such a Being (with a captial B) is also in posession of all knowledge, all being, all truth, all causation, all love (the reason for existence) and therefore, by neccessity MUST transcend any and ALL human conceptualizations of such a God in order to BE God ie: his "thoughts" (whatever they may be) "are as far above ours as the stars are above the earth", the earth being "his footstool" and the heavens above his great throne (universal) (and no I'm not really "heir to the throne either" (my avatar) God forbid!) But we ARE all an intrinsic part of the all in all nevertheless, and we are made in the image and likeness of God (our consciousness and therefore our free will).

Sorry for the run on sentences..

Bottom line, any so called "devil" is, therefore, just a trick or a lie of some kind, some sort of deluded thinking arising from a fatal flaw in our understanding of the true nature of existence, and the purpose of life, and even of our OWN existence and our own misunderstanding and projections, within that larger framework, and could not possibly be any more than that, given the transcendent omniscience of the Absolute, relative to which we are quite obviously being blessed, with the opportunity of HAVING an experience to begin with

The "devil" then, can only be, a lie; a misunderstanding, a misinterpretation of events or of reality, a way of being, and therefore of thinking, and of doing, which is incongruent with the meaning and purpose of life, and therefore at some level at odds with life, and maybe even as a result, functioning in a type of rebellious spirit in relation to life, and by extension, to God who is the Absolute. Evil then, is to be cut off from this center and source of all being and becoming, and if there is any slicing and dicing to be done, is it we who do it to ourselves only. God is immovable, absolute, the author of the law of life and love against which we can only hurt or even smash ourselves to pieces, and it has to be this way, to uphold his law as the very cornerstone of all creation and existence. Incorruptible. The Absolute Perfection could be nothing less than that.

And that fatal flaw therefore, is duality itself, or the notion of a type of God/antiGod.

Think for a moment how presumptuous that is, to presume that there is no Absolute above a duality of "good and evil". God has even stated, through inspired human beings, via deep myth and allegory, that, to eat of this tree, is to be separated from God, THINKING that we like God and can know the difference, and dilineate all existence in a type of splintered judgement, presumably making even of the Absolute an "object" of some kind, subject to our own interpreations of good and evil, is both an utterly foolish and absurd notion.

So the basic premise of this thread then is not only to explore these new-old ideas about the universe we inhabit, based on modern science and even ancient wisdom, each from our own unique perspective, but to recognize, the true nature of our position, in the grand scheme of things (coinheritors of the kingdom of light and love), and standing there, laugh out loud at the devil in the final dawning of the realization, that the "devil", was nothing but a misunderstanding on OUR part, regarding our OWN true nature, and even that sometimes rebellious nature which operates relative to, the Absolute, something beyond all conceptualizations and which cannot be understood, only logically and rationally posited, based on the sheer fact of our own existence.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


God is the Devil!

So your theory basically says nothing that exists in duality really exists? That the only thing that really exists is that which incorporates all things and transcends the perception of looking at each individual thing as apart from the whole...

Ok, fine. That doesn't negate the importance of seeing things in an individualized sense. It also doesn't disprove the Devil or anything else through your leaps of logic. You obviously made the thread with the intent to specifically disprove something and proceeded to build a trumped up contrived logical case that circumnavigates around obvious truths to arrive at your final opinion that proves your original intent. In the end you are assuming as granted what you are trying to prove, thus proving nothing.

Well good for you guys.

I'm just trying to post something of value, something people can weigh out and try on or not for themselves and get a discussion going, that's all.

What, can't you get your head around what I'm saying or where this might lead?

And it was all well intentioned too, and I really put a lot of thought into it as you can tell.

Hey if you don't like it that's fine, ignore it as the meaningless rantings of a "glu sniffing" whatever Fine. Go back to whateever you were doing and pretend you never even saw this thread.

Sorry for the inconvenience!

All the best,

Rob

If you're going to use the Jewish Bible then use it the correct way. Judaism is the one with the answers of the Devil in Judaism.
Devil in Judaism?
Satan in Judaism
Satan in Judaism2

reply to post by NewAgeMan


If you really want to promote discussion on a thread on ATS, make it about something that ATSers really care about, and make it easily reading by the layman, and short.

Your post, while interesting, has no basis in fact, and is the obvious ramblings of someone who feels that he has something to prove.

The Devil and God are all about having faith in the subject matter, something that I strongly disagree in. I'm an admitted RELIGIOUS skeptic who needs to see scientific proof with logical backing in order to believe in the whole "intelligent design" theory.

The Devil is a scam going back almost to the dawn of time, when mankind seemed to think he needed a scapegoat for all the bad stuff that he (or she!) did, as humankind can't possibly be responsible for the horrible things that go on - it MUST be the work of the Devil, or God putting temptation in your way? It can't be the free will of humankind to do these things.

Originally posted by CeasarKhanTheGreat
So your theory basically says nothing that exists in duality really exists? That the only thing that really exists is that which incorporates all things and transcends the perception of looking at each individual thing as apart from the whole...

Ok, fine. That doesn't negate the importance of seeing things in an individualized sense. It also doesn't disprove the Devil or anything else through your leaps of logic. You obviously made the thread with the intent to specifically disprove something and proceeded to build a trumped up contrived logical case that circumnavigates around obvious truths to arrive at your final opinion that proves your original intent. In the end you are assuming as granted what you are trying to prove, thus proving nothing.

Not quite, what I was saying that the differentiated experience we call life is a process of differentiation occuring with an intent of the will or with a purpose, a desire, an impulse to creativity and to experience, which includes everything, and even we ourselves, our lives and our subjective interpretations of "what's going on" both within and without, that it's a gift of God in the sense of or along the lines of
"so fear not little ones for it pleased the father (first father of creation) to share his kingdom with all his children". In other words the evidence suggests that there can be nothing to fear within such a framework. It's good news, and it's "ALL GOOD" as they say, and only we are, or were "F'd" up in some way or another, being as it were unloving, judgemental, ah snarky, and hurtful, for no reason other than a misunderstanding or a miscommunication of some kind.

It still leaves individual responsibility and freedom of choice up to the individual however, since FREEDOM seems to be the law, in particular the freedom to love freely, since there can be no other kind and since love is causative, or a reason for creation.

Let me put it another way.

The creation of the world is a triumph of persuasion over force.

Originally posted by babybunnies
The Devil is a scam going back almost to the dawn of time, when mankind seemed to think he needed a scapegoat for all the bad stuff that he (or she!) did, as humankind can't possibly be responsible for the horrible things that go on - it MUST be the work of the Devil, or God putting temptation in your way? It can't be the free will of humankind to do these things.

On that we are in total agreement. 100%.

The "devil" is more of a teaching tool than a trick or lie. The way I see it, there is no up without a down, and essentially every civilization has a choice of whether to ascend (advance) or descend (renew). The "devil" represents what a sentient species is capable of (destroying themselves, either actively or passively) if they don't collectively realize that they have the potential to embody all that is good (balance), or all that is "evil" (imbalance).

Corruption inevitably leads to renewal.

Don't let the folks here discourage you OP...some people need their d/evil, although this thread probably belongs in the philosophy section.

Originally posted by seedofchucky
Do they let every top dick and harry post new threads? I would imagine 80 percent of the threads here are nothing but glue sniffing tools like the op here. Your claims are baseless and purely philosophical. You've neither proven nor disproven you claims. Were still at square one with our thumbs up our ass going huh at the stars.

To be perfectly honest I did smoke one before I wrote the OP, for inspiration!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


The Bible which I believe to be true says that God is all that is Good and he does not lie.

So then you do not believe any part of the bible as truth, which then by this fact then nothing, nobody, anything is true.

There is not a man alive or dead for that matter that has ever told truth.

God said that he created every thing and that it was Good.

He later tells us that Satan's pride and envy for praise and worship offered up to God daily, before Lucifer's fall, was what caused him to rebel against God and try to overthrow him.

God did not create evil, though he knew of it. It was the devise of Satan that has brought it into the world.

reply to post by xiphias


I agree with you again. The devil represents how bad it can get. If it is true and there is a "devil" maybe he/she/it is a great warrior keeping the evil level at a set point, protecting us from what other serious evil might be out there.

reply to post by ACTS 2:38


You do know Satan is an Angel, right? Angels are incapable of rebelling.
Satan in Judaism
So now we have to revise our understanding of Satan. Satan is not a fallen angel. Satan is merely an angel with a dirty job. Satan does not have a rival kingdom. Satan is not in competition with G-d, and Satan does not want followers or worshipers. He's not even happy when people obey him and sin. Satan is the angel who tempts us, and the angel who prosecutes us in Heaven. He is also the Angel of Death. The angel who tries to make us sin is the same angel who accuses us in the Heavenly Court, and the same angel who carries out the death sentence.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

The Bible which I believe to be true says that God is all that is Good and he does not lie.

So then you do not believe any part of the bible as truth, which then by this fact then nothing, nobody, anything is true.

There is not a man alive or dead for that matter that has ever told truth.

God said that he created every thing and that it was Good.

He later tells us that Satan's pride and envy for praise and worship offered up to God daily, before Lucifer's fall, was what caused him to rebel against God and try to overthrow him.

God did not create evil, though he knew of it. It was the devise of Satan that has brought it into the world.

If true then Satan is on a very short leash, or as long as only God allows, so there again, the duality is swallowed up in the trascendant.

Satan - we must remember, arises from Setan, or Set from ancient Egypt.

And so if the problem of a Satanic domination has arisen again, we must break free and free our fellow man, just like Moses did and differentiate ourselves from that domain, by entering into a new one.

To the Christian I would ask, where is the Satan in Christ, to which the appropriate reply might be - left on the cross or in the tomb. Once again, swallowed up by the transcendant love and power of God.

And in the final analysis, would such a dyanamic, unless you equate Satan with entropy or some such philosophical dualism, not be a house divided, or, if entropy, nothing but an overall creative process where from death always arises new life, from life to life everlasting.

They also say that conscious suffering is the beginning of the end of suffering, but oh it`s sure taking us a while to get there, nevertheless, it too is part of a larger, overarching transcendant creative process (from suffering arises joy for example), and so again, well within the sphere of God`s will, purpose, and design.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Did you read my above comment? Satan is an Angel. Who has the job to tempt people. Nothing more; nothing less. Do you agree?

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Did you read my above comment? Satan is an Angel. Who has the job to tempt people. Nothing more; nothing less. Do you agree?

No, I do not, not any more, no. My mind is changing shape, and once the mind changes shape it can never go back to its original configuration.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Then you worship an angel that does now want to be worshiped. Satan's job is to tempt and we that have free will can overcome Satan.

Let me try another tact here, and frame it in the form of a question:

Do you (and I mean anyone) think, that in the fullness of time and history, and even in the fullness of eternity and the whole breadth of the cosmic evolutionary framework, that the good ultimately triumphs over, the evil?

And here of course we'll have some folks arguing for the continued neccessity of evil and to you I would say, get thee behind us Satan (and please don't take that the wrong way).

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Then you worship an angel that does now want to be worshiped. Satan's job is to tempt and we that have free will can overcome Satan.

I love love. I worship God as a being of unfathomable love, and even as a person of Love (free will), but neither as a being which would make any sort of compromise with sin and evil, upholding the law of life and love, and the twin pillars of severe justice, and tender mercy in the temple of the living God, an embodiment, a manifestation of that love, in time and history - this is who I worship. I worship the resolution to the paradox of human sin and evil, the transcenant, who is also innerant.