New Respect for Islam---- After Traveling to Morocco

Hello, and thank you for the thread, i am from Latvia, and recently in my neighborhood there moved in this Muslim guy, at first i thought (mostly from the media, well 100% from the media) that the Muslims are like these crazy evil and weird guys, but... after getting to know him, their views of the world are indeed pretty much as ours, and i could actually learn a a lot, me myself i am agnostic, but that as well as your experience in Morocco proved to me that there are not only the terrorist type Muslim people, but also really decent ones.

And if you find one, it is interesting to talk about their philosophy and such and such, so thank you again for the thread.

Edit: sorry about the possible stupidity of this question, but i cant seem to find what the W means under your information, to my understanding it is Warnings, and if so how did i get 0,05? Thanks a lot

Even though I am currently going to college, I hope to travel abroad in the next few years and visit places such as Morocco, Egypt, then to Germany and surrounding environs. There are radicals in every religion, every walk of life, and in every family, for that matter. Islam and Christianity both have bloody histories but thankfully we are slowly making our way out of those dark ages. There are some who wish to go back to the old ways of murder in the name of a loving god, and those don't ever go away. It is up to those of us with open minds to conduct ourselves in a more civil fashion and raise our children to get along with everyone, instead of bullying and reverting back to their baser natures. I am glad you put up this thread so others can see that travel is fatal to bigotry, ignorance, and stupidity. Thank you!

Originally posted by b0sanac
reply to post by Syyth007

 

Yeah, every religion has them. However you dont hear of all the christian/hindu/catholic etc etc terrorists. All you hear is muslim this muslim that.

Yeah, there are just crowds of hindu, catholic and buddist terrorists running around cutting off each others' heads and blowing up airplanes.

reply to post by nastyj


thanks I hope to see a lot more over my lifetime.
I've been to Indonesia which is also highly Islamic and I must say that there also, the people are wonderful and sound a lot like the Moroccons in their attitudes. I didn't have a problem there at all and thoroughly enjoyed my stay.

Why do we in the West allow freedom of religion, speech and expression, while over in Morocco i may not have a Bible? Why do countries with Sharia law not allow women to vote, or have rights at all in general? I have read many articles of women being whipped and worse in these countries for the crimes as simple as being seen in public with men not related to them. Iran has a brutally apalling humans right record. The last election was a sham, and even if you dont believe that it was, when the good people of Iran protested the results, they were met with the governments brown shirts, the Basiji who attacked and killed innocent protesters. Sharia law is a travesty which inslaves half of the people with the misfortune of being born is such places.

On my Mediteranian cruise, we stopped over in Cairo. My wife is blonde haired and blue eyes, and very proud. She refused to cover her hair and at least went as far as to wear conservative legging as apparently shorts were a no-no. I had two men approach her and one literally reached out to grab her breasts. When i pushed him away, he commented about how she has good "childbearing" hips and would bring me many kids before scurrying off. Are women animals to these people? I would like to think that was an exception, but having NEVER seen such a thing after living 38 years in the west without alcohol added to the mix, i dont think its an exception but more the norm. Another man spit at her. I had to really control my anger as i did not want to end up in an Eqyptian prison.

I respect all cultures that treat all people as equal. The ones who do not do not deserve my respect. I do know good muslims and had the fortune to work for a family a few years back. Great people who would give you their shirts off their backs if asked. Iran has good people. Morocco has good people. American has good people. If the government is wrong, which these are, why can we not speak up as good, moral people and call a spade a spade. The people who defend the likes of Ahmadinejad and the Iranian government in general would probably agree with Aphartied. Why not? They segregated blacks, Iran segregates women. Where is the moral difference?

I honestly believe that most people praise him and people like Hugo Chavez simply because they oppose the USA. Grow up and realize they are no better, just a different kind of evil. The USA is much more underhanded in the things they do wrong, but at least it treats its own citizens with an ounce of respect. If i lived in a country that wanted my wife whipped simply because she was seen without a veil, i would like to think i would join an underground resistance to overthrow a regime so brutal and inhumane.

One of the best posts I've read because it carries a very important message of hope and peace. Look at what they drum into you head in the US on a daily basis. It's all fear based - the evil Moslem terrorists are going to get ya! There's Al-Cia-da under every bed! The entire media in the US is a joke. They drummed it into the heads of Americans that Moslems did 9/11 which is a lie. All so we would hate them and cheer to go to war to get back at them for what they did to us! It's been all carefully staged by the powers that be to set up WWIII.

We have dropped thousands of tons of depleted uranium primarily on Moslem lands which will go on killing them and causing deformities for 4 billion years. Why does our news not tell you how evil depleted uranium is and how devastating it has been to the people of Iraq? Bust through the lies of the media and just turn it off. It's all propaganda from the Pentagon anyway. Have you heard one mainstream media call to end the bogus wars the US is in? lol

peace

islamic extemists at it again, trying to blow up planes ,7000 potential victims on the planes

seriously to all the muzza's on ATS stop it cos we can all see what your like with your lies and deciet

reply to post by MMPI2

I spent thirty-eight months walking around in six of their countries courtesy of Uncle Sugar, and I know more about Shi'a than any hundred of you wanna-be world travelers and armchair social scientists.

And of course, the circumstances of your visit were purely cultural and educational and had in no way coloured your perception of reality.

We've all heard examples of the worst form of Islam. That still does not mean that all Muslims are that way. We know for a fact that they are not. Your war-torn perspective is irrelevant to the reality in the rest of the world.

reply to post by MRuss

While I like your sentiment, I think it reveals a bigger issue.

In the US, we are trained to think that any "bad or evil" act committed by a "Muslim" is attributable to their "evil" religion.

For example, if someone named Mohammed were to harm someone else, the endless chorus of Islam bashing begins, as though every act committed by a "Muslim" is attributable to his or her faith...

This mantra is not used with members of any other religion. If someone named John kills his entire family, we dont say "look at that insane Christian" or if Jugdish were to murder a cow, no one says "its those dang Hindus at it again!"

The reason why you have "new found respct for Muslims" is because, whether you realize it or not, you too have been brainwashed to think this way.

Allow me to state the obvious. There are good people and bad people regardless of their religion, their race etc. More specifically, there are good Muslims and bad Muslims regardless of the fact that they may be "Muslim".

And why this mantra of demonization? Because our Govt constantly needs an enemy to justify the stripping of our liberties and the constant expansion of our global military empire.

With the break up of the USSR, there went our Govts largest scare tactic. Over are the days of people building nuclear fall out shelters in their basements, but wait, what about the "Communist Red Chinese"? Surely, we have to be scared of them! Not to mention their never ending human rights abuses! Never-mind, they're good people now that they let us build Walmarts and Burger Kings all over their country.

Now, if these damned Muslims would just stand down while we kill and invade their countries over natural resources, we could all live at peace.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by MMPI2

 

I spent thirty-eight months walking around in six of their countries courtesy of Uncle Sugar, and I know more about Shi'a than any hundred of you wanna-be world travelers and armchair social scientists.

And of course, the circumstances of your visit were purely cultural and educational and had in no way coloured your perception of reality.

We've all heard examples of the worst form of Islam. That still does not mean that all Muslims are that way. We know for a fact that they are not. Your war-torn perspective is irrelevant to the reality in the rest of the world.

Alright, genius. Where in any of my posts did I say that all muslims "are that way?" Are you so obtuse that you cannot understand even the rudiments of my point?

My "war-torn perspective" is absolutely germane to the topic and 100% more accurate than any you can offer. I have seen the best of these people and the worst of these people, and stand by my position fully. You have no standing at all.

i have backpacked alone and with friends in muslim countries since the age of 20. i have made many friends ranging from labourers to law professors so the spectrum is quite wide. the greatest love i have found is in sufi music and it's spin offs. when i first heard the music it banjoed me and as a musician myself i found that once the locals became aware of my love for music, the barriers vanished. i have had some profound experiences on my travels with respect to the music. sometimes i feel it is a good thing to switch off the mind and let the heart decide. myself and a friend backpacked in maroc a couple of years ago during the season of ramadan. we saw good and bad during this visit and sometimes you have to bite your lip in certain circumstances. overall they are a pround and honest people and get my respect on many levels.
f

reply to post by MMPI2

You have no standing at all.

The primary source for my opinion is the people who live, work, teach and pray in this predominantly Middle Eastern neighbourhood I have lived in for the last three years, here in Canada. I have become friends with the man who owns and operates a Muslim school and Mosque directly behind my house.

So far I get along with all of them and have experienced nothing but a sense of real "community"; even tho I am neither Muslim, nor Middle Eastern. As far as I am concerned, this scenario is more representative of what goes on generally around the world, places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan nothwithstanding.

I also stand by my opinion.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by MMPI2

 

You have no standing at all.

The primary source for my opinion is the people who live, work, teach and pray in this predominantly Middle Eastern neighbourhood I have lived in for the last three years, here in Canada. I have become friends with the man who owns and operates a Muslim school and Mosque directly behind my house.

So far I get along with all of them and have experienced nothing but a sense of real "community"; even tho I am neither Muslim, nor Middle Eastern. As far as I am concerned, this scenario is more representative of what goes on generally around the world, places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan nothwithstanding.

I also stand by my opinion.

Your opinion is based on a tiny set of data points. It is the opinion of the undereducated liberal who believes himself to be smarter than he really is.

I had a similar experience after visiting parts of Turkey last year. A very warm and welcoming people. They were very respectful. While eating lunch, there was the mid-day prayer call. We realized why the staff brought us extra food and drinks (on the house) for no reason-- it was to ensure we were taken care of during the time they would be praying for a couple minutes. Their hospitality and level of decorum really blew me away.

Interesting there are no replies here from women. Most people are going on about how well they are treated, but they are all men. Not one person has taken up issue with my above message and the treatment of my wife while visiting Cairo.

reply to post by nightbringr


sir i have been to cairo central on a number of occasions. the first time i went was with a friend
who at the time had long blonde hair and was wearing shorts. we were in the main square during prayer spillout
and surrounded by thousands of men. a number of them began to converge around us and proceeded
to stroke his hair and pinch his ass. this freaked him totally much to my amusement! from that day on
i use to say to him 'hey pretty blonde european, you want to party?' in a kind of arab speak. this wound
him up no end.
i think you have to consider the culture differences here. you will have noticed that some men hold
hands with each other quite openly. when i asked an egyptian friend about this he informed me that
it is forbidden to have close contact with women and only when one is married can you run that gaunlet.
furthermore it is still frowned upon even when you are married. try and put yourself in their position
where from birth you have a strict set of laws to follow for the rest of your life. anything outside of
what you are accustomed to is going to be quite an eyeopener. some not all arabs consider western females
loose and available because of the images and adverts etc that they see. in a nutshell one could argue they
are oppressed with regards to any public show of affection or flirtations. i suppose this could build up
and westerners are an easy target for certain individuals or groups.
i will also say that in 1992 i stopped an englishman from being raped in the sinai town of dahab. things happened quite fast and i was in the location. i heard him trying to fend off two arabs who were attempting to remove his pants. i saw red and attacked them both. almost at once three security service policemen were on the scene and removed these men. apart from some cuts and shakes, i informed him to not be too friendly with the locals as they could mis-interpret your friendliness an another level. i also informed him not to press charges as this could financially cripple him and would require a number of return flights back to egypt.
another occasion i was in the old quarter in jerusalem and a swedish girl was whacked across the arm with a long stick for wearing a revealing t-shirt. it broke her arm and she was histerical. we assisted her to the consulate in eilat in order for her to get her sinai visa stamped and return to cairo for a flight home. these areas are quite explosive if one does not understand the mindset. it is also wise to do ones homework before visiting another culture far removed from ones own.
respect is a must.
f

Originally posted by nightbringr
Interesting there are no replies here from women. Most people are going on about how well they are treated, but they are all men. Not one person has taken up issue with my above message and the treatment of my wife while visiting Cairo.

Women are beaten, mutilated or murdered if they "speak out" or show any sense of self-determination.

Originally posted by MMPI2

Originally posted by nightbringr
Interesting there are no replies here from women. Most people are going on about how well they are treated, but they are all men. Not one person has taken up issue with my above message and the treatment of my wife while visiting Cairo.

Women are beaten, mutilated or murdered if they "speak out" or show any sense of self-determination.

Precisely. I dont understand why my respect is demanded for these people who treat half of the human population in this manner.

reply to post by gladtobehere

In the US, we are trained to think that any "bad or evil" act committed by a "Muslim" is attributable to their "evil" religion.

I was never ever taught that in fact before 9/11 I was getting into the study of Sufism, I have studied many religions.

Originally posted by nightbringr
Interesting there are no replies here from women. Most people are going on about how well they are treated, but they are all men. Not one person has taken up issue with my above message and the treatment of my wife while visiting Cairo.

I am a women and I have voiced my concerns over the oppression of the women in Islam on the forum, people don't like that, that makes me a bigot and a racist.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Wafa Sultan is a Syrian-born psychiatrist who immigrated to the U.S. in 1989. She is most well-known for appearing on Al-Jazeera in 2006 in a debate with sheikh Ibrahim Al-Khouli, when she delivered a memorable attack on Islam (which has since caused her to live in hiding). She just released a new book, entitled A God Who Hates. On October 20, Dr. Sultan addressed the Middle East Forum via conference call.

Islam is intrinsically destructive—that is Dr. Sultan's message. She began by discussing how she came about this conclusion, which is the story of her largely autobiographical book.

In her view, the Muslim world needs reform in three areas: Muslim nations must 1) grant their citizens the right to practice any—or no—faith; 2) they must reform school curricula, which currently teach intolerance and hatred for non-Muslims; 3) they must grant equal rights to women and eliminate the oppression Muslim women currently experience.

Dr. Sultan stressed this last point, saying the West has long ignored the plight of Muslim women, which is why her book spends extra time addressing the problems women face in the Muslim world. Her recommendation is for the West to cease apologizing for Islam and instead confront Islamic teachings directly and "put pressure" on Muslims to "come up with honest answers."

I always wondered where the women of the forum are on this subject especially the activist.

I would poop my pants if I saw a topic titled new respect for Christians, they don't cut them any slack at all.