New Respect for Islam---- After Traveling to Morocco

reply to post by MMPI2



I hear you, respect your words and know there is truth in them, but I also know loads of Muslims who are Muslim like I'm a Christian, I'm not but my grandad was, by our actions and the biased political system we impose we create a fertile ground for their wahhabist seed to flower,.

This wasn't happening in the 70's, it's all blowback from the tactics we used to win the cold war.

Nice thread OP, thats how it should be simple and peaceful. Really good to read something like this, after the other thread on Mohammad name being poopular in UK, that was a real playground there, with slander getting thrown around everywhere.

Those who are still on the train about how islam is a violent, extremist religion, it doesnt even take any research to find out who is the aggressor in the world. Just look at whats going on in the world and common sense will tell you the answers.

Fake Iraq war - no WMDs, oil profiteering, the war is getting nowhere, ridiculous amount of civilian deaths, and the militias who are fighting back, are pretty much civilians who ahve taken up arms.

Fake afghanistan war - false flag 9/11 war fo more fake WMDs, more oil, more profiteering. Corruption with hamid karzai being paid by US, More civilian deaths. Ridiculous.

EDIT; oh yeah and did i mention, guantanamo bay? abu ghraib? or the wikileaks torture footage? hahaha lets even hear the naysayers bring up some stoning and other sharia law stuff.

btw iran has sharia law, iran has that, i think you can tell how well iran is doing now. ahmedinejad is probably the wisest and most real leader atm, watch his interviews and the ones on bill o reilly, the us conference speech etc. he has made ties with a lo of countires now too, after all the slnader it took from the tptb, it still stands firm and the people are behind the government. infact after the country has been sanctioned, it hasnt ever prospered so well. anyway going on too long here.. sorrry

Gaza and palestinian conflict - Dont even need to describe whats goin on here, absolute antihumanitarian, the people are living like prisoners. You might aswell send them to the gas chamber because they are living a worse life anway.

To conitunue from gaza, the Aid flotillas with protesters being killed on international water - whilst the world condemns it, only the perpetrators praise the murders. Disgusting.

Pakistan getting bombed on borders - for taliban threats and border crossing with no evidence? Pakistani leaders have already, condemned the bombings and imply corruption and have called the bombings to stop.

The Lebanon war - with hezbollah, the 34 day war or soemthign it was? Another fake war on false pretenses, also the corruption going on with the Assasiantion of one of their leaders Hariri or soemthing i forgot the name, Hezbollah leader trying to fight against the information infilitration against the lebanese people. Israel trying to aquire information on all lebanese population. A proper infowar going on here, espionage at its best.

Iran - more WMD threats, are you kidding me?santions, threats of invasion under ore false pretenses, i think by now i dont to explain the iran situation because it is absolutely ridiculous.

All popular media an news show islamization terrorism and all the other propaganda, anything about these issues? yeah maye a little, but very very biased.

Ok now i beg the question where does islam fit under all this violence, what terrorism you say? the same terrorist groups funded by TPTB..okay then. suicide bombers? afte havingn their families killed and the stuff mentioned above, i think one might get a litle idea of why they do that.. bin laden taliban n al qaida? i wonder who funed them first..hmm.
And oh gosh please dont even mention 9/11 or 7/7, utter ridiculousnessnesness.

And you still say islam TALKs and TEACHES violence?? Well even if they did (which they dont..) ACTIONS speak louder than WORDS, and i think its quite clear who is making all the action...

Time to wake up n smell the fresh air, cos right now all i smell is hypocrisy. Sorry about going off uys, i dont usually do this but sometimes i think even peoples common sense is being impaired.

Thanks again for the thread and i urge the naysayers, to really put some research into whats going on with the world.

Interesting how compelled some are to discredit the OP. Are you protecting a world view that you know, deep down, to be wrong, or does it just appear that way to anyone who reads your posts?

I will say this about Islam and the context of this post. Islam is a brutish control system put in place by con men to control populations. But so are Christianity and Judaism.

The OP is not proclaiming Islam to be a religion of peace, but instead implying we are mistaken when we assume that Muslims (and any others in foreign countries) are people to be feared. People are the same everywhere, and when we have personal contact with them we can get along pretty well. It's not that we need to endorse their religion. It is that we should endorse their humanity.

Is it illegal to read the bible or non muzlim literature, with a morocan or give them one? Yes.
No wonder it is so peaceful over there, everyone is under mohammids (Men's) thumb and if you want to keep your own thumb or head you better do as 'they' say.
Why are these people so poor?
I don't trust any islamist Any.

reply to post by Grumble


I think youll find the more perverse control system within the tptb, you think the American control system is working better? look at the facts and figures. i implore you to read my last post too.. i thik its clear who is in control and who is trying to do the controlling.

islam is not just a religion, it is a politcal system, it calls itself a way of life, yes it may be strict, there may be rules, it might not be fun. but thats the cost of peace. once peace is found, then the definition of fun will change, from what might be considered sinful, to good stuff (lol i cant think of a better word ;p)

peace to you brother,

reply to post by AmericanDaughter


id like you to read my post above please and telll me would you trust the other guys instead?

peace n respect

Originally posted by technical difficultiesComparing entertainment to a belief system is apples and oranges.

The way I see it: belief is entertainment and entertainment leads to belief. Or am I missing something?

Bible, Koran, Newspaper, Magazine, Textbook, Operating Manual
Church, Press, Media/Entertainment, Academy, Corporation

I don't see much difference between the above concepts, other than how they are viewed and applied.
Everyone is trying to teach and learn. The problem is always with bad teachers, not bad students.

Like I said: Media is religion. Religion is media.
Media is anything that tries to convey a message or knowledge.

Also, common denominator of apples and oranges: tree

reply to post by MMPI2


Well I happen to be muslim. i certainly dont plan on killing myself for anyone or anything. the level of ignorance people have is really disgusting.

reply to post by MRuss


Apologies for not reading the whole thread but S&F, glad you said something. I spent a few months in Egypt and Turkey, came away with pretty much the same general impression. Its the nation, not the faith.

Its a shame how Islam has been depicted to western countries the past decade or so. If the millions of muslins knew how our media and governments really felt, there would be a lot more violence. Anyway, at least they still stick to there faith, unlike millions of whites who think there own religion is a load of garbage. Makes you really wonder who the true evil ones are, starting with our own politicians.

reply to post by AmericanDaughter


Maybe it is illegal, fair enough, but why would you betray your race and religion in the first place? In the end these to things are more important than anything to any (cult)ure.

Thaks for sharing your story. Most Muslims are all for peace and are regular people that just want to live life and raise a family. Some militants though interperet the Koran and Jihad to mean kill anyone who does not share this religion which is an odd interpretation. Depends on how you are raised though. The reason people are afraid of and condem Muslims is because the terrorist bombings that have been going on have all been done primarily by Muslims in the name of Ahlah. I've never heard of some Methodist guy strapping a bomb to himself and boarding a bus to kill ppl ya know. Good post though, I hope more people come to understand that most Muslims are just regular people.

The way I see it: belief is entertainment and entertainment leads to belief. Or am I missing something?

Like I said: Media is religion. Religion is media.
Everyone is trying to teach and learn. The problem is always with bad teachers, not bad students.

Hey mate how you doing!?

I was wondering what you meant about your comments. Would be awesome to find out your view about things in detail because it seem you do pay a lot of attention to all the things going on

About belief being entertainment and entertainment leading to belief, im not sure how you got to this, believeing in somethign spiritual through religions isnt really entertainment becasue there isnt at all any fun in them.

Nor does anything fentertaining lead to belief, unless you define entertainment as studying, research etc.
Ive thought of entertainment like movies, tv, music, having 'fun' etc i think you know what i mean. I believe these things are very very far from belief if you define belief as anything to do wiht religion or scriptures, cos they are like on opposing ends

As for media being religion and religion being media, that is very true, most people do follow everything on the MSM and this can be assumed a religion. The thing about MSM that you ahve to acknowledge is that its CONTROLLED, however the information we get on the internet is far far more UNCONTROLLED, therefore we are here discussing all these matters on this awesome site. Thing is id rather come to my own conclusion from my own research, without believing information on a controlled source, as the knowledge derived from this will most likely be very biased and one directional. However when research is applied to information coming from mutliple uncontrolled sources then the knowledge derived from it is far far richer, infact wisdom is also earned.

As for the media, my opinion and ive gotten this from other intereisting sources is this, would lvoe to talk about this too because it is kinda interesting
I think the media is more like the MEDIATOR. for example, if the controllers, or the elite, or the guys who sit on top of the capitalist etc, these guys are the intelligence the BRAIN.
And the working class, the mass, the people like you and me, we are the HAND.
The difference in intelligence and understanding between these are great, and for the BRAIN to control the HAND, it will not work without the something in between. That something is the HEART.

The HEART, represents the belief, the thing that the working class or people can relate to etc. Where the media come in is the mediator, to capture the HEART. In doing so can command the hand by being the intermediary.

This can be applied to religion aswell, where the brain can be GOD, and the HAND being the people as always, where the RELIGION is the heart.

I can carry on wiht this in detail, but ill just say a few things, as we know mainstream religion is being practiced, islam chuirstianity judaism, etc etc. There is also the other side, which is the occult beliefs, Paganism is involved too. Im sure yo mght haveheard about the Iluminati etc, im nto sure what your beliefs are on that, will take another mutliple threads to talk about that, but imo is very real, the symbolism is EVERYWHERE, that part is definitely fact.

So from this we can establish 2 sides in the story, 2 forms of control etc. Where the decision and peoples opinions come from is the path you choose etc. There is a lot of duality in nature, too many to even out as examples.

Also the middle ground the athiests, imo is the big pool of fish where recruits are made. This big group of people have a lotta pressure on them. Either to make up their mind choose one, or deny both. Whether people chose to believe in either is theri choice, one fact remains is that BOTH sides are being practiced on EVERY level of intelligence and social level. The peopl right on top of these big groups are either from 1 side or another, never from the middle group. Like i said its up to them what they decide the truth is.

So you might wonder what does religion say about the middle dudes. Yeah they talk about heaven and hell, with good and bad being the home for each respectively. But if you were curious to ask a muslim that, he would say that there is a third place, devoid of emotion, pleasure or sin, like a total greyness, from a third persons view, a very boring place lol. (not saying hell is a fun place, but it does paint a vivid picture right? lol)
This place would reside for the person who has been neither good or bad in life.

As for the pagan view on what lies for the middle ground, i really dont know, besides that they think of them as being ignorant sheep only to be used as a system for contorl of their schemes.

I think i might ahve delved abit far off topic here, and sorry if i ahve.
Ayway much peace brother!

It's great that you enjoyed Morocco.
But I find that Islam is beautiful in Islamic countries.
It's only when it comes to the West and has to coexist with other religions that the more extremist side of it can come to the fore. Mainly with it's Sheiks I might add.

Originally posted by Flighty
It's great that you enjoyed Morocco.
But I find that Islam is beautiful in Islamic countries.
It's only when it comes to the West and has to coexist with other religions that the more extremist side of it can come to the fore. Mainly with it's Sheiks I might add.

Yeah i tihnk your quiteon point with that, though i think extremism can breed in many circumstances, not just the west.

Howeve wiht the Sheikhs, that is just a title they use for one that has a very high rank in piety cmon muslims, like he arch in bishops or something. Thing is its also an elected title, common wiht the older folks, people who have deep respect for their spiritual leader, might let them bear the title of Sheikh, usaly after they have gone through other titles and studies such as Aalim, Moulana, Hafiz, Mufti, Qari to name but a few.

I know and heard from a lotta sheikhs and its the opposite youll find them to be the most peaceful guys ever. The is when the MSM uses words like islamization islamist, extremist, fundamentalist, terrorists, cleric, sheikhs etc etc all together, then it sorta warps people thought and they consider one of the words to be an attribute to the other. Its a very clever propaganda scheme. They are geniuses at using it.

Peace n respect to you friend, and hope that one day you can travel the world and see the cities landmarks and cultures of all faiths

Originally posted by MRuss
Well, Senser, experience is our greatest teacher.

We can know something theoretically.

But we can't really know it unless we experience it.

You can read about the beach. You can hear descriptions about those who have visited the beach and you can watch movies about the beach.

But until you visit the beach, you will never know what it feels like to have sand between your toes, or taste the salt of the ocean and feel the wind on your face.

One of the biggest tools for growth is actual experience.

I hope I've illustrated why in a way you can understand.

Have a good night, friend.

And don't be sad for me.

I had a wonderful time.

I`m happy for you that you have seen the light, but the point i wanted to put across is that the it`s sad that people lack the curiousity to informate themselves about other cultures and societies, because we westerners are arrogant and still are after even haven to experiened it and are in general not open to different cultures and lifestyles.

I`m glad there are still people that are open and respecful and see the value in other cultures.

Hope i put my point across..

reply to post by MRuss


I've known a lot of people from Morocco, even had a few as students. I have friends and acquaintances from Turkey. Also, I've known, worked with and taught quite a few people from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Bangladesh. I can honestly say that I find almost no uniform way of connecting these people. They've all had their unique take on life. Some have been humble people, others outspoken, pious, regular joes/moderates, addicted to Xbox, gay, feminists, marijuana smokers, beer drinkers, pushy, way too talkative, well-read, well-traveled, generous, excellent chef, Iron Maiden devotee, overly into Quintin Tarantino films, fluent in English, poor in English, native speakers of English.

So, I would agree that the only way to fight ignorance regarding Muslim nations and Islam in general is to meet people from these places and who practice that religion. How many Christians and Jews do I know who are geeks, nerds, jocks, non-practicing, videogame addicts, drug addicts, alcoholics, clean, dirty, fat, skinny, listen to NPR, listen to Rush Limbaugh, listen to Sports radio, watch Fox, read books instead of TV, etc.

Why anyone would assume that patterns aren't universal is something I just don't understand. Lumping people together is easily disproved provided that you mingle with them.

I really don't give a stuff about religion.
All I know is I travelled throughout the African continent for about a year and for the western women in our group, Moroccan men were simply the worst. The way they stared - despite us covering up and dressing modestly. As a female I never felt so uncomfortable anywhere - so you can keep Morocco.
A man might have a different perspective of course...

Ive been to Tangiers, Rabat, Casablance and i can honestly say they were fantastic, peaceful places.

Been lucky enough to travel to many, many countries through work and the most threatened ive ever felt was in New York.

Great post.

Originally posted by MRuss
I had never traveled to a country that practiced Islam before. My only frame of reference was what I had seen on television.

Like many of my fellow Americans, I had a negative impression of Islam and Muslims. 44% of America believes that Islam encourages violence amoung its believers. I had never learned to make a distinction between militant Islam and the general Muslim population.

During my travels through Morocco, I was impressed with the level of dignity most Moroccans possessed. Although many Moroccans live in poverty, a quiet dignity existed there, and although I've been stolen from in Europe (Greece, to be exact) I felt relatively safe in Morocco and no one in my group had any problems, other than the occassional beggar looking for a few coins.

Most women wore western clothing and the country was not swaddled in burkas, although some traditional women did indeed don such traditional clothing. Morocco is currently beefing up its infrastucture to encourage more tourism, and travelers can find comfortable lodging, amazing food and fantastic shopping in the souks and ancient alleys that weave their way through the old parts of the cities.

I attended a lecture there with a dignified Moroccan professor who encouraged my group to help dispel the myths about Islam when we returned home. He reminded us that Morocco was the first country to officially recognize the United States in 1776 when we became independent from the British.

In America, we are getting a constant drumbeat of negative information about Islam---and it's a shame, because I think we are above this. We cannot link all Muslims with extremists. We can visit a place like Morocco, and respect it's culture and history and try to see it with a fresh perspective. Morocco boasts an incredible amount of archaelogy, beautiful deserts and shoreline and lively and intriguing cities. Some of the mosques are breathtaking and I found it intriguing to watch the trails of people make their way to prayer when the call sounded. But religion didn't seem to be the overall message I came away with----

The people of Morocco are really no different than we are. They are raising families, working, living---just like the rest of the world.

Experience is the great liberator and I'm glad for the opportunity to have changed my mind.....about something so important.

Perception is everything.....isn't it?

Might want to travel to to the radical muslim nations instead,because not all muslims are exetremist.Problem is there are not any muslim movements or giant protest anywhere that protest and condemns al-qeada or muslim exetremist.The moderate peaceful muslims don't do anything to try and preach against exetremist in the Islam world.