NASA and DARPA Plan 'Hundred-Year Starship' To Bring Humans to Other Worlds And Leave Them There For

Originally posted by tristar
After your last escapade with the McDonald files you did cause sweat to break out,

Well that McDonald caper lead me to some doors that I wasn't expecting... but my being away for a year left me unable to knock on them... Kinda regret that not often you get a direct email to a Navy astronaut at the top of the chain Perhaps I wasn't quite sure what to ask at that point.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by Shadowed

 

Oh, I'm an "Elite" then. AWESOME. I feel a Mr.Burns like finger drumming coming my way.

None of your morals are promoted by staying on Earth alone. None of your wants are achieved by stopping progress.

Your goals of more moral and better people isn't achieved with your rabid insistence about staying on Earth until everyone fits your does as you have told them too.

So, I guess I "diminish" and you link completely unrelated ideas to goals you have no interest in.

I believe that you're arguments fit the definition of Pious Fraud.

Though I'd also suggest Confusing Correlation with Causation, and Appeal to Widespread Belief, and Two Wrongs Make a Right.

You make claims, but I haven't seen you bring to the table evidence. How are my morals not supported? If we leave taking with us our legacy of destruction all we can hope for on another world is more destruction. Consume everything move along. That is not progress. That is weak minded self instant gratification.
You call me a pious fraud. So you have no belief in a higher power? You think my words are lies? Interesting. Considering that I can back my claims, and trace it through history. Something that you should stop and learn from. All the same mistakes are being made in America that happened in the fall of the Roman Empire. Exactly, as it happened, just at a faster rate.
I am Pious, but a fraud I am not. I have a great belief in many disciplines. Science proves god with every new discovery, but yet because no one connects the dots science is blind. You can't see the whole puzzle if you only look at a piece. I connect the dots. I see God in all things as all the ancient people believed. I understand what Universiality is. When you feel the connection between all things and make the distinction all will be clear.
Fibunacci sequence, String Theory, Butterfly Effect, The laws of Entropy, etc. I can go on and on about all the things that prove every ancient text about God. However, it wastes my time because all that you seem to be interested in is your "self." Native Americans as well as many indigenous people looked seven generations forward to base their actions on. You seem to look only to the moment.
What you don't realize is that Unity through diversity is what it's all about. There should be no quables based on religions, land, or possessions. Religions are like opinions everyone has one, All Land belongs to ALL people. It is our planet, and our birthplace. Possessions come and go, your favorite vase if you drop it it's gone forever. The only thing that lasts in this universe is energy, and thats all. (Matter is just a manifestation of Energy, look in depth at quantum theory if you don't believe me)

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Shadowed
So when you say "Not occupied." I guess you mean Mars or similar planet.

Throughout the history of our planet, nature has wiped out species and brought new ones.. long before man came a long. I see many people talking about species that are becoming extinct, but those same people forget to tell us how many new species we have discovered in the past year.

People forget that evolution and creation of new species is on going. Man is currently one at the top of the food chain and certainly abuse of any environment is a really bad idea... but in the end, when Nature tosses the next ice age at us in a few decades, we may not do so well

Mars not occupied? errrr well if you say so

Yes and what do you think is due soon? We are past due for an Ice age, Science lines up parallel with the issues that face us on a single day in 2012, and look around you the way people act line up perfectly with the way civilizations fall into Dark Ages it happened at the fall of the Roman Empire it will happen again.
The only chance we have is to follow the plan and that is cooperation. It Created the first Eukaryotic cell that we still carry around with us today. (Research Mitochondria and where it came from)

reply to post by Shadowed


Fallacy of False Alternatives, Ignoring of the Disproof, Fast Talking.


But while your debate includes all those and the fallacies I listed before, the argument itself is the
Argument Demanding Impossible Perfection. You aren't even hiding it behind the normal gibberish. You are actually doing it outright.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by Shadowed

 

Fallacy of False Alternatives, Ignoring of the Disproof, Fast Talking.


But while your debate includes all those and the fallacies I listed before, the argument itself is the
Argument Demanding Impossible Perfection. You aren't even hiding it behind the normal gibberish. You are actually doing it outright.

edit on 2010/10/23 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

I never claimed to wanting perfection. My Alternatives are not false, they haven't been tried in our culture. As I stated in my previous post Diversity is the key to the success to Humankind. Overly corrupt Power mongers make this world a horrible place. Demanding Slavery from the Lower class and quickly returning the culture to only having two levels of class. Upper and Lower are mostly all we have. You can't tell me that someone at Store management level making 4 times what a sales associate does is acceptable. A store manager can't even do the job of a sales associate, yet they think they can manage. Retail is the new order of slaves.
I'm going to guess that your argument would be something like this. How is it slavery you get paid in retail. Yes and one person in retail can't even afford to have a home. Yet someone doing the same job 50 years ago would actually support a multi bedroom house and a family with just one job. All the money made in retail goes to food, housing, and clothing. Which is all that a slave had. Minimum wage is a joke.
Let me guess, next you are going to say they should work harder. Why when employers sit and sign papers and make decisions on rules without any knowledge of what is going on at the level that they are enforced. Creating so many barriers to getting the job done, that they cannot be counted. Everything is quantified. People aren't numbers and neither are interactions. They want humans that act like robots. Which by your accusation of me is Truly a desire of PERFECTION.
Difference is the key to making civilization work, otherwise you trap yourself in a box and there is no way out. Conformity=Perfection and that is the very thing that should be deleted from our society.
Humans need to think about things before they act. Even the Gentleman that invented the Atomic Bomb couldn't believe what he had created once he saw the destruction he caused.
If you take a look at the signature at the bottom you will see a quote from Katsumoto in the Last samurai watch the movie and see it in it's context and you will understand that the PERFECTION you accuse me of is completely false.

I'd be sooo keen to do this it isn't funny

I hope it actually comes to fruition and they ask for civilians to join the exploration ! This is pretty much what I have been waiting for since I saw my 1st episode of 'Star Trek' all those years ago

Originally posted by CHRLZ

Mmmm. Yes. Quite.

Well, you'll be pleased to know you (and a number of others on this thread) have earned your place on Ark B of the fleet! Congratulations. Ark B will be sent out first, followed a short time later by the rest of us...

..

Does the crew of this 'Ark B' also include all the hairdressers, telephone repairmen, television repairmen, lawyers, and politicians, by chance?

I do believe a certain Mr. Arthur Dent would be quite displeased to hear of the launching of this ship... But that's my own humble opinion.

Originally posted by jephers0n

Originally posted by CHRLZ

Mmmm. Yes. Quite.

Well, you'll be pleased to know you (and a number of others on this thread) have earned your place on Ark B of the fleet! Congratulations. Ark B will be sent out first, followed a short time later by the rest of us...

..

Does the crew of this 'Ark B' also include all the hairdressers, telephone repairmen, television repairmen, lawyers, and politicians, by chance?

I do believe a certain Mr. Arthur Dent would be quite displeased to hear of the launching of this ship... But that's my own humble opinion.

Yes. Telephone sanitizers, actually... I'm glad someone got the HGTTG refernce..

SKl you have managed to do it again.....

s and f

Now to jump into the debates....



It is a darwinistic mechanism... Humanity will cull itself with this issue.... The deadwood will be shaken out... You dont have to like it, these are the rules mother nature operates by... their is no court of appeals on natures rulings...

She cold and heartless, but she enables the best to win.....

Marvel comics captures the scene best when apocalypse faces off against the high evolutionare. The A-man thinks the h-man is interfering with the natural evolution of the moliods...

Yet in the middle of it a leader emerges and leads forces against what is going on... The A-man laughs at the H-man... "The creme will always rise to the top...."

Same here... no matter what the fake intellectuals throw out the best and brightest, via culling will over come...

Why because the stagnant will stop expanding/ growing and then die.... The best and brightest via culling will keep going...

This garbage about Fixing things here first is a sign that we need the space program even more. The whole human race is at stake.... THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE.... This is where america should TAKE her natural role as a leader and go for the gold...

Now after saying this let me go off on a tangent...

If by some unseen methods I lose the divorce...Watch the news....

Its either president of the United States or I am building my own spaceship.. Its that or complete burnout....

Now what do the two things have in common... really fast computers....

now to a subtangent

It is completely possible to construct a ship within this generation. It is also possible to have thriving colonies in this solar system within this life time.....

The engines for ftl can be done by the next generation if not this one....

imagination + sweat equity + faith + guts = results

most of the equation missing is imagination in todays world....

in closing the whole thing is darwin at work... The human race will either succeed or fail at this point....

time to make the ultimate run for it



notebook of lazurus long-rah

When a place gets crowded enough to require ID’s, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.

The second best thing about space travel is that the distances involved make war very difficult, usually impractical, and almost always unnecessary. This is probably a loss for most people, since war is our races most popular diversion, one which gives purpose and color to dull and stupid lives. But it is a great boon to the intelligent man who fights only when he must--never for sport.

There are hidden contradictions within the minds of people who “love nature” while deploring the “artificialities” with which “Man has spoiled ‘Nature.” The obvious contradiction lies in their choice of words, which imply that Man and his artifacts are not part of “Nature”--but beavers and their damns are. But the contradictions go deeper than this prima-facie absurdity. In declaring his love for a beaver damn (erected by beavers for beaver’s purposes) and his hatred for dams erected by men (for the purpose of men) the “Naturist” reveals his hatred for his own race--i.e., his own self-hatred. In the case of “Naturists” such self—hatred is understandable; they are such a sorry lot. But hatred is too strong an emotion to feel toward them; pity and contempt are the most they rate. As for me, willy-nilly I am a man, not a beaver, and H. Sapiens is the only race I have or can have. Fortunately for me, I like being part of a race made up of men and women-- it strikes me as a fine arrangement and perfectly “natural.” Believe it or not, there were “Naturists” who opposed the first flight to old Earth’s Moon as being “unnatural” and a “despoiling of nature.”

Originally posted by CHRLZ

Yes. Telephone sanitizers, actually... I'm glad someone got the HGTTG refernce..

It's been a few years since I've read the book (though I've read it many times).

Originally I had it in as hand sanitizers, but it just didn't sound right for some reason

I've read enough Sci-fi to know to NEVER get on the first few ships.

Oh and when you lot go, we Terrans or earthlings will have to build giant laser beams to fight you lot off when you eventually get mutated or infested with some parasitical fungi and return to devour us. You won't catch me out that easily.

No thanks.

Mr Lizard

reply to post by mr-lizard


and never where red shirts!!!!

if you value your life...

I would like to apply some layman' project-management notions to this:

1 - Pre-flight
2 - Flight
3 - Post-flight

But before I can dig into this, there are a few demons we need to exorcise from this discussion;

"Fix our problems on Earth first"
It can be argued that a significant portion of our problems on Earth are precisely because there is no more room 'to get away' from the insanity which results from cultural, ideological, and political friction between people. In other words, it's too damn crowded on Earth. Why not give a chance for a group of Earthlings to start a society without the crass and base baggage that we are subject to from the so-called 'leaders' of this world?

"Money"
It is the single most irrelevant thing anyone could bring up. First of all, many already know, "money" is 100% fictional B/S made up (and maintained) by people who understand that the fear of 'want' drives people to sacrifice their personal values to 'get' it. Things don't "cost" money.... people "charge" money for things. There is a clear difference between the two ideas. If it were a matter of species survival, do you think "money" would be an issue? Of course not. So the alternative to surrendering to glorious money is waiting until it IS a matter of survival and then what?

"Priorities"
We are not a global community. We MOST likely never will be. I propose the day will come when people realize there is a point where separate communities spawn separate societies.. and that being the case, the splintering of a population is an inevitability. It probably has something to do with the math.... math which (once again) our "leaders" can't cope. People don't agree on priorities; we have never agreed on priorities... and barring the global species extinction scenario, we probably never will.

Those three 'demons' kill the whole debate. Be gone with them.....

1 - Pre-flight

BIIIIG issues here.

First off... such a "mission" being relegated to the military disturbs me (remember NASA and DARPA are both Department of Defense Agencies.... i.e. "Military Industrial Complex" club members). This could very well become a 'string along' expenditure hole for endless billions to be 'absorbed' by the financial industry while military and defense contractors buy $500 toilet seats and $300 hammers. Also, being military in nature... who do you think is going to make up the manpower for what could be mankind's most ambitious undertaking? Military and defense contractors of course. This will guarantee a certain 'culture' will be entrenched in the endeavor. My first request - as if what I could request would matter - would be to remove ALL military involvement from the project and ensure - with finality - that NO military budget be connected to it in any way.

Second... International. What the heck is THAT supposed to mean? Everyone knows such a designation opens the door to the same political/diplomatic nonsense that plagues us NOW. It would NEVER get done... the only international projects that EVER meet with success are the ones where some third party (a monetary fund, an NGO, or some cabal of corporations) gets richer. We as a global society (for whatever that perspective is worth) have to define a new - isolated - form of public enterprise to achieve this if we are to have any hope of common decency being applied to the venture... it can't be a corporation because they are all controlled by ivory-tower boards of other corporate members with their own agendas. It can't be a U.N. - type operation because that's just a front for more of the same corporate crap we are subject to at present. This consideration will lay the framework for how this project can survive political regimes, wars, and the financial shenanigans of the money changers.

Third... presumptive technology applications. In order for this to work, sustainability will be key. But if that 'sustainability is achievable- why haven't we benefited from it here on Earth? Energy? Same question. In fact all of it presupposes that we have the means to accomplish what people on Earth are dying over right now. This project would create massive resentment from those who watch their debt-wealth manipulated for a handful of people who are being jettisoned from the planet as they and their posterity languish.

Fourth... "Volunteers". Really? You think random people will be allowed to go? I find that very unlikely. Considering the paradigms of such a 'trek' across the universe, efficiency and relevance are key for each person involved. No one gets to ride on his or her butt waiting to arrive and be served Mimosa's when they get to their new beachfront property. Or will they? If there is an 'elite' command-class group - this becomes a royal barge, not a colonization mission.

Fifth - and most importantly "Social Order." When they study this... it will be on spreadsheets and with presentations slides showing wondrous images and concepts. But how will that address the society that we are sending? Do we assume that a military structure will solve all their social issues? Do the children of officers become officers? Do the children of laborers become laborers? Will their be "money" in this world... not to mention the colossal difference between living on a ship, and living on a new planet - having to accept leadership from people who never have to 'earn' respect or 'demonstrate' leadership ability... they lead because they say so... see where that could go? Haven't we been down that road already?

Flight - Hollywood. Think of the movies you may have seen that are not about blasting guts and slime all over the place.... what happens to people who are born in a tin can and subsequently live and die of old age (presumably) in that same can. What will their children be like I wonder? Will people be content to perform endlessly according to a pre-programmed function laid out generations before? Perhaps if it were their religion.... otherwise I see trouble for the first person who says... "but I don't want to be an environmental technician, I want to be a musician." Maybe they'll all just be in 'sleepers' and wake up their... another potential tragedy there... (Pandorum)

And these folks traveling endlessly (at least to them) also have another emptiness that must be filled. History. Do we feed them the white-washed BS our leaders attempt to fill us with? And if not, from whence will true history be drawn to teach them (so they don;t fall for the same crap we did)? And if there is a true history out there in the world, why shouldn't we have it already? Will there be "classified" nonsense in their future... secrets that only a few or none should know? Secrets are the cancer of our society ... will we send them with that cancer pre-installed?

Post-Flight

They get there and we are already waiting for them because in the interim we developed technologies that they didn't benefit from..... ooops

They get there and discover that they are doomed because the planet is already inhabited with lifeforms that make it impossible for us to cohabitate with .... ooops

They get there and find themselves incapable of starting a new society because of internal social problems, groups splinter off and die out in isolation.... ooops

They land in a Utopian wonderland, and discover that Earth is no more.... whew... good call.

They land and Earth begins to demand the 'tribute' which most of our 'leaders' would be rubbing their hands over.....
what if they refuse?
what if they resist?
what if they rip us off?

Are we prepared to accept the inevitable recognition of a separate state on a different planet?

This is an excellent topic..... by the way.... I'll leave you all to the debate now... thanks for reading!

Without a magnetic field around the planet no life could live there.

You couldn't even grow plants underground in a greenhouse with artificial light. The suns emitted particles would prevent anything from living.

Unless they figure out a way to get a magnetic field around that planet, nothing will ever live there.

We have the capability to put a magnetic field around a space ship. It would take us several hundred years to get a magnetic field around that planet again...minimum.

Just another false move from NASA to let the sheeple think space traveling is not that easy.

Except for the elite blackops pilots who fly around in ET back enginered crafts or even with the real deal the US militairy shot out of the sky in the past years

This is great news, "to bring humans to other worlds and leave them there" well I think all our dreams are about to come true...

while I think of all scientific finding we could have, I suggest we send leaders of governments, politics and major corpatations, because this would be the wisest group of people most equiped to handle this type of mission


........"and leave them there" ....we might finally have a chance lol

Still, getting there would Still, getting there would require an advanced propulsion system that could get off the ground with minimal fuel and land safely.

Easy. Build the ship in space...

And use the propulsion system that could send us to Mars in 30 days... but I don't remember the name, it's already in the test phase.

For landing, well figure it out!

But me thinks they already have another parallel program way more advance than public knowledge.

Originally posted by Mr Mask

Originally posted by pinealexplorer
oh my god!! I will never live on this lush blue planet ever again..... holy $#@! Haaaaaaaalp!!! get me offffff thisssss!!!! get me offff this!!!!!

Captain Spartan, we have yet another crew member flipping out...should we have him report to the termination center on Dock-1B or should I just put this one down myself, sir?

He's freaking out the other passengers.

More meat - for the meat eaters ....


Strange goings on abroad that SpaceWhaler headed for New Nantucket !

reply to post by Maxmars


That was very thought provoking and thank you.

However, I think you may have overlooked one very important detail ...... 100 years of kids asking "Are we there yet?"

reply to post by Pervius


So there has never been a hydroponics lab on a space station ? I think you are mistaken myself . I think that there are ways and means of making ANYTHING that needs to happen, happen.
Besides which , are you really telling me that the first thing you get to that throws a problem in the works is being able to grow plants in a low grav environment ? If the people building this vehicle can solve the transit time issue of travel to other planets in the solar system, then they can solve the piddling matter of how to grow carrots in crap environments.