Obama Strips the 'Creator' from Declaration of Independence -- Again

Originally posted by damwel
It's called paraphrasing. It makes no difference in his message. Get over it, no theocracy in this United States. It's the land of the FREE.

My friend,

It is madness to think oneself free without acknowledging that his freedom is a right granted by a "Creator".

Let me ask you, if your rights do not stem from a creator, where do you get them from?

If you say yourself, well you are just one of many, thus the many are justified in taking your rights.

If you say by human kind, again, human kind then has a right to take those rights from you.

If you are free, it is by the blessing of a creator. Only a fool would think otherwise. A wise man would demand that someone who represents him politically acknowledge this simple truth. Failing to do so is simply placing one in a position to TAKE your rights from you. It is called "conditioning".

Beware who you defend, and learn why things were worded the way they were at the founding of this country.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by damwel
It's called paraphrasing. It makes no difference in his message. Get over it, no theocracy in this United States. It's the land of the FREE.

Like I said a few posts ago.

Reciting the whole line except for one word out is not paraphrasing, its called omitting.

Definition of PARAPHRASE
1
: a restatement of a text, passage, or work giving the meaning in another form
2
: the use or process of paraphrasing in studying or teaching composition

www.merriam-webster.com...

By stripping "creator" and not replacing it with a similar term he is destroying the meaning of the text and is therefore not paraphrasing.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Sestias

 

Well, I am not a very good Christian, if anything I am a Deist. BUT, I don't think we should be fiddling with the wording of those documents. It is a matter of historical perspective and progress. The fact is, the nation was built on religious foundations and it did very well for a couple of centuries. Recently we have gotten further and further from those ideals and the nation has been run less and less efficiently. Hell, even the atrocities at Abu Ghraib are evidence of a Nation without strong morality.

I don't think we need a theocracy, but I am positive that we don't want to rewrite history and pretend we were never a Christian nation. We were. And, we were successful at it. Now, we are losing our direction, and a little morality might go a long way.

I don't think Obama is Muslim, Atheist, or Reptilian, he might be, but that isn't the point. The point is that a very important document and ideal and foundation of the nation is worded a distinct way for a distinct reason and I don't want the president pretending that it isn't so!

I have to disagree that the country went well for a couple centuries. We had many wars, including a civil war, and human rights issues throughout that entire time. Slavery and the belief of religious superiority by certain religious groups have bastardized the Constitution since its inception. By the time we began to really work those issues out (the 60's and 70's), political power had replaced the "master" role from the slave owners and priests. So it was too late and we are now digressing.

I also disagree that we were a Christian nation. It's true that Christians were the "power" of the nations leadership, but not the crucial element that makes up the framework of individual rights. That my friend is the number one issue at the heart of this. The word "creator" has nothing to do with God or religion. Being created is to be born, when born we are given something that no man or God can take away.....Individual rights!

I think it's just another intended slip. The man thinks he can do whatever he pleases and it shows by the policies he supports. But then again he's the current puppet in charge, eventually he will be replaced by a new puppet and the cycle will continue. My problem with any sitting president is when they choose to not listen to the will of the people, when the people overwhelmingly reject something and you ignore that fact, something is truly flawed. But then again if the people really cared as much as back in the days they would be marching with torches and pitch forks in hand, not debating it on internet forums and such.

I am sure that had creator NEVER been mentioned at all in the document, you would have no problem the way it is. You dislike change, because you fear what you cannot control.

Originally posted by xuenchen
Good analysis!

... and then, Human Rights are replaced with "less rights",

and then "NO rights"!

they're moving right along at "godspeed" arn't they?!

Yes my friend, they are moving along.

If anyone thinks the war for their liberty isn't at full steam by now, they walk with blinders on.

And if they walk as an Atheist, they cannot complain.

Oh how the battle between faiths seems to have turned so many from God. Nope, no conspiracy to see here my friends. Move along.

With Love,

Your Brother

Obama was just executing a correction of American Hypocrisy. The 'Declaration of Independence' states "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Yet our constitution states (in the first amendment, no less) “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
So while those who say that Obama has insulted their beliefs by omitting the word "creator" from his version of the D.O.I, he is protected under Freedom of Speech, and the fact that Religion is to be kept separate from governmental matters (an ideal that wasn't considered upon the Declaration's creation, but should have been changed upon the birth of the first Amendment thirteen years later).

Originally posted by Elsek
I am sure that had creator NEVER been mentioned at all in the document, you would have no problem the way it is. You dislike change, because you fear what you cannot control.

When it comes to changing a couple of documents that are the foundation our country was built on then, yes sir, I do have a problem with change.

reply to post by IAMIAM

Yes, our rights are being stripped from right underneath us, but what does liberty have to do with religion? If I do not believe in the God in which you believe, am I doomed to lose all my rights?

Hmm...

reply to post by Becoming


So you honestly in your heart believe that by him not saying Creator, will hurt or damage the foundation upon which this country was built? Honestly? Now obviously had he changed more substantial words or statements such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then YES I believe that could hurt the foundation of America.

reply to post by xuenchen


This is unimaginably idiotic, Religion does not add rights, it takes away. And dont say "Oh thats only them crazy Arabic religions". Christianity was 10000 times worse in the field of human rights was then Islam on a historical level. Implementing a theocracy will just bring it all back.
Also, religion takes away peoples free will. Yes, once people are older they can convert, become atheist, etc... But when a baby is born, they are born into their parents religion, and have no real choice until much older to switch, and by then most of them are brainwashed, i know this because i went to Jewish day school for all of my elementary education, they tried so hard to push God and their beliefs on me, it was ultimately what made me question the whole thing.

Originally posted by Mactire
So while those who say that Obama has insulted their beliefs by omitting the word "creator" from his version of the D.O.I, he is protected under Freedom of Speech, and the fact that Religion is to be kept separate from governmental matters (an ideal that wasn't considered upon the Declaration's creation, but should have been changed upon the birth of the first Amendment thirteen years later).

My friend,

Religion is what our state is to be separate from. Religion is dogma, structure of belief, and tradition of practice of faith. Yes, we need to keep our government separate from this. Which is why the term "Creator" was used in "The Declaration of Independence". It is dogma neutral.

Our country is founded on a belief in a creator, it just does not define what that creator is. A creator is where we derive our rights, our FREEDOM. Without it, where would those rights come from?

This is a very IMPORTANT omission. Had it happened once, maybe an accidental misstep, twice, perhaps lack of sleep, repeatedly, something is foul.

He is an elected representative of our rights. Failing to acknowledge the source of those rights is denial. Denying the source of those rights is setting us up to have them taken away.

Believe what you will, just remember I told you so.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by sheepslayer247


You can disagree all you want about how well we did for the first couple of centuries, but I believe history will prove you wrong!

We went from a handful of misfit colonists to the most powerful nation on the Earth and the driving force behind the worlds economy. We basically invented "human rights." We revolutionized education, and politics, and industry, and exploration. We went to the moon! From 1776 to 1976 the nation had some growing pains, but our learning curve was steep and successful! No other nation in history has accomplished what the United States has accomplished. China has been around for thousands of years and they haven't done a fraction of what the US has done.

I suppose we were not exactly a "Christian" nation, because the framers of our Constitution were actually Deists, but they did call themselves Christians. The colonists were Christians. Even the French and Spaniard colonists were Christians, so we were about as close to being a Christian nation as possible without establishing a national church like the Church of England.

Wars, slavery, Civil rights, women's rights, all happened in rapid succession and the nation continued to grow and prosper through those issues. It is a pretty dam amazing story if you ask me, and it is unique in the history of the world!!

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Yes, our rights are being stripped from right underneath us, but what does liberty have to do with religion? If I do not believe in the God in which you believe, am I doomed to lose all my rights?

Hmm...

I do not have a religion my friend. However, I KNOW there is a Supreme Creator. If you do not have one, do not believe in one, then you tell me from where do you get your rights?

You better have an answer soon. If you cannot answer, how do you know your rights are being taken or if you even have any at all?

Mine come naturally from God by virtue of being created by him. They are self evident in that I can utilise them at will.

With love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Elsek
reply to post by Becoming

 

So you honestly in your heart believe that by him not saying Creator, will hurt or damage the foundation upon which this country was built? Honestly? Now obviously had he changed more substantial words or statements such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then YES I believe that could hurt the foundation of America.

When you want to make changes to something important you don't jump into the meat of it. You start knocking off things that some people will applaude, others hate and a few not care. Then you change something a little edgier and so on and so forth until those applauding the small change are left with a confused look on thier face while asking themselves "what the hell just happened?".

This document was good enough to help jump start a great nation and has been good enough for over 200 years after that. People need to leave it completely alone, even the smallest change can be extremely harmful.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Where would our rights come from? The founding fathers? Most of which were deists and found the bible to be inaccurate or false.

Originally posted by Elsek
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Where would our rights come from? The founding fathers? Most of which were deists and found the bible to be inaccurate or false.

My friend,

Why do you bring the Bible to the discussion? I did not bring it up.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by sheepslayer247

Being created is to be born, when born we are given something that no man or God can take away.....Individual rights!

"born" or "conceived" or "beginning a heartbea" or "beginning a consciousness" or "becoming self-aware"????? Tell me, what exactly does it mean to be "created?"

My youngest son was never "born." He had to be cut out of his mother and revived. He is fine now, but tell me when he was "created." Was it at conception? At the 2nd month when he got a heartbeat? At some point when he got brainwaves? When he left his mothers womb in the ER? When he finally took that first breath? If you ask me he was "created" at about 3 months old when he finally wiggled and looked up and made eye contact with his mother for the first time and finally got to leave the hospital the next day!

So, if you miraculously come up with a definition for "created" .......then you can tell me who is responsible for the act of creation! My penis? Her egg? Both? The doc that removed him from the womb? The doc that did the heart surgery and got him to become "conscious." The nurses that held him for months? If you ask me, he was "created" long before I ever met his mother, and we were all just role players in a greater plan, but that is just me!

So, is the word "Creator" important?

Bill Clinton escaped impeachment by focusing all of his energies and defense on the word "is." Nobody ever questioned the definition of "is" until Slick Willie, and now they teach classes on his expert evasion!

Is the the word "Creator" important?

reply to post by getreadyalready


The rapid advancement you speak of is more technological than anything. As far as our achievements in human rights and politics: Rome went through the same sort of progression throughout its time as a republic. Only when human rights, freedoms and non-mainstream religions were persecuted did the stability of the state begin to be compromised.

I simply believe that it serves no purpose to call ourselves a Christian nation. It only alienates and creates the subliminal notion that any religion other than Christianity does not have the same rights as Christians.

We are a nation of freemen and individual rights. No more no less.