Did Jesjuah stage his own death in order to escape from it all?

Can't atleast ONE person look through my five concerns and try to disprove it. Or don't you dare for some stupid reason? Are your ways of interpreting Origen way how the NT is not to be understood literally, but symbolically (which is equalled to modern theology for instance), how in this World Jesjuah had to be killed (meaning God committed the worst sin of human sacrifice) so your egoes might survive to gain even more adherers to this psychotic and unheard of practice of human sacrifice? Jesjuah DIED ONCE -- in BAPTISM. And he is still with us today (though a bit put back by his beloveds' sacrament -- the Truth and his enemies story that he suffered the Second Death?)..........

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


What is there to disprove? You don't believe any of my beliefs so why do you think I should care about yours?
Why don't you PROVE WITHOUT DOUBT that what you wrote is the truth???

reply to post by adjensen


Still just theology, though a more open and question-serving one. Please look beyond theology and what others have made your mind work to explain what actually happened, which is to be understood literally, not like some fairytale with SOME truth in it in the end. Why did Jesjuah kill himself, and why did God put him to death? Why are all Christians accepting God's supposed murder of his own son and how can anyone sleep while still believing Jesjuah (or your "Jesus"--) allowed himself to be murdered in atonement for your bloody and godforsaken sins? I don't hide my sins for my beloved God, but I don't bother him with them either. Neither should you BTW. "Jeswah" or Jesjuah in my language tells me only cleverness can beat the old serpent, love will only let him live, and knowing how the old serpent can change and changes over time, and has changed over time, and has suffered enough to be called back in in the cworum of gods to show what we have become, only shows what we have all been waiting for, that Jesjuah's suffering was not in vain, but could be used as a tool to become a richer more reconcieling beings, ready to carry His cross into the next millennium.

Originally posted by Soldier of God
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

What is there to disprove? You don't believe any of my beliefs so why do you think I should care about yours?
Why don't you PROVE WITHOUT DOUBT that what you wrote is the truth???

And still you replied to this thread? Shame is on you I am afraid.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Can't atleast ONE person look through my five concerns and try to disprove it. Or don't you dare for some stupid reason?

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but you've provided nothing other than idle speculation. There's nothing in your five points that bears a whole lot of scrutiny, so you've proven nothing, and so nothing needs to be disproven.

Jesjuah DIED ONCE -- in BAPTISM. And he is still with us today (though a bit put back by his beloveds' sacrament -- the Truth and his enemies story that he suffered the Second Death?)..........

Yes, see, you've actually got this backwards. We died, in Adam, through our first birth. We are reborn, in Christ, through baptism. John's baptism was a ritual Jewish cleansing, not the same thing as a Christian baptism. You'll note that John ran afoul of Herod (and his wife) for his denouncement of Herod's marriage -- he was respected and somewhat feared by the Jewish religious authorities, something that would not have happened if he was acting counter to Judaic law.

You don't die in baptism, John's or otherwise.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Can't atleast ONE person look through my five concerns and try to disprove it. Or don't you dare for some stupid reason?

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but you've provided nothing other than idle speculation. There's nothing in your five points that bears a whole lot of scrutiny, so you've proven nothing, and so nothing needs to be disproven.

Jesjuah DIED ONCE -- in BAPTISM. And he is still with us today (though a bit put back by his beloveds' sacrament -- the Truth and his enemies story that he suffered the Second Death?)..........

Yes, see, you've actually got this backwards. We died, in Adam, through our first birth. We are reborn, in Christ, through baptism. John's baptism was a ritual Jewish cleansing, not the same thing as a Christian baptism. You'll note that John ran afoul of Herod (and his wife) for his denouncement of Herod's marriage -- he was respected and somewhat feared by the Jewish religious authorities, something that would not have happened if he was acting counter to Judaic law.

You don't die in baptism, John's or otherwise.

Exactly...

Originally posted by adjensen
Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but you've provided nothing other than idle speculation.

Which noone has been able to go against other than with spurious esotheria and magic mumbo jumbo supporting todays theology schools. All my five points are supported by scripture. Still noone has been able to refute my five points. Why is it so that nearly all aspects surrounding the crucifixion all indicates that Jesjuah didn't die, but was saved by the Greatest Love? Showing your head's off won't show anything other than what it might look like....

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Why did Jesjuah kill himself, and why did God put him to death?

Why do you keep asking me this, when I've answered you and you just don't like the answer? Accept that Christian beliefs are different than yours and move on. I'm only critical of you when you make incorrect statements about the central figure in my religion -- I have no beef with your personal beliefs.

Why are all Christians accepting God's supposed murder of his own son and how can anyone sleep while still believing Jesjuah (or your "Jesus"--) allowed himself to be murdered in atonement for your bloody and godforsaken sins?

Hey, I didn't say I liked it, I just said that it is what it is.

See that bit in my signature below this message? I think it's folly to expect reality to conform to our expectations -- if Christ died to atone for my sins, then that's what he did, and whether I like it or not, whether I accept it or not, it is what it is. The Doctrine of Atonement explains it, it doesn't necessitate it.

reply to post by Soldier of God


Which is a typical example of why this place donot allow oneliners. You curb up to show the better man's reply saying "yeah" "right on" or whatever. Work on my five points instead of making your pastorian-getting-the-hold-of-it kinda way, trying to support the usual circular reasoning we all know was the base of Origen's theology, still taught by people calling themselves scientists today. Sorry, you don't get any points by doing such.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Soldier of God

 

Which is a typical example of why this place donot allow oneliners. You curb up to show the better man's reply saying "yeah" "right on" or whatever. Work on my five points instead of making your pastorian-getting-the-hold-of-it kinda way, trying to support the usual circular reasoning we all know was the base of Origen's theology, still taught by people calling themselves scientists today. Sorry, you don't get any points by doing such.

I already tried to tell you, you have nothing of substance.
Did Jesus change his appearance?
Did he have a collapsed lung?
Was he alive when taken from the cross?
Why did Mary bring healing medicines?

Nothing proven, all speculation but you think if you contibnue to ask the same questions that somehow they'll seem to make sense. They don't and nothing is backed up by scripture.
Why don't you answer my question about you repeatedly posting this same thread???
Have an agenda or just won't face the truth???

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
All my five points are supported by scripture. Still noone has been able to refute my five points. Why is it so that nearly all aspects surrounding the crucifixion all indicates that Jesjuah didn't die, but was saved by the Greatest Love? Showing your head's off won't show anything other than what it might look like....

Here's your first point:

#1 According to tradition Jesjuah was long haired and heavily bearded and used to walk in a rather extravagant linen or hemp robe woven in one single piece, so it would be relatively easy to change his initial appearance, through cutting his hair and beard and dressing him up in new clothes, perhaps even the robe of the gardener who worked around the given tomb, resulting in how Mary Magdalene believed he was the gardener, and how his disciples later didn't recognise him straight away but needed time to understand it was in fact Jesjuah, their lord who appeared in front of them after the tomb was found empty.

What support in scripture is there for any of this? You claim that, because Jesus had long hair and a beard, he could disguise himself as a gardener. Frankly, this just sounds silly. There is nothing in this point to be disputed, because it's all complete speculation on your part.

The Bible clearly states, in multiple places, that Jesus died on the cross. It does not say that he was fond of disguises, or that he drank a secret potion that knocked him out, or that the spear in his side caused a lung to collapse and put him in a coma that no one recognized.

You have a biased belief, and you wish to read the Bible selectively to eke out snippets of scripture that just might support you, but this proves nothing, apart from your having a vivid imagination and the drive to be found correct.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Why did Jesjuah kill himself, and why did God put him to death?

Why do you keep asking me this, when I've answered you and you just don't like the answer?

You still have not answered me. You have provided the colpit of what theology says about the thing. You still have not given as much as a hint of what you yourself believe. Or is believing in your world the same as copying and pasting whatever circular reasoning might provide? Try again. And please tell me if you don't know what circular reasioning means, I am willing to explain. But you'll have to wait for tyomorrow, since I need some sleep right now.

Bah. What a bunch of dead losers.....

reply to post by adjensen


Are you saying Jesjuah was not a Nazarean? Are you saying he ever shaved or cut his hair? Unless you can cite any proof of the oposite, I'll stick with the untold truth as explained by OT to substanciate that Jesjuah being a Nazirean was indeed carrying a gross beard and all hair he had ever produced since birth. EVEN though he was born in Nazareth making him literally a "Nazarean".

I think the problem here is people are basing arguments in religious fervor, which of course, is difficult to lead to a condusive discussion. As a christian, I can see why some might resist a logical discussion on this topic, but as a rational person, I will indulge you. I think your theory is plausible, but I find it hard to derive evidence from anything other then the bible, and the bible pretty much has Jesus dieing and rising from the grave, etc.

I know its against T&C to be talking about "drug" experiences on here, however I feel this is necessary to your thread.....About 3 years ago I had a grand revelation. I won't say what I was on, you can just say I had a "rapture"
From that experience which lasted about 5 minutes, it soon became clear to me, but I won't say I liked the "answer"
I had spent 27 years of my life, thoroughly enamored by my senses. When I had discovered that it had all been "meaningless" it was a shock to the system. Its hard to imagine what you have come to know was a lie. It turns out my origin from the center, there was no need to fall to the right or to the left...in fact the entire goal should never have been to leave at all! When my being branched out it had escaped too far and gotten used to the entire "experience" and now there is a need to remove all that and return to center.

I understand this will be interpreted in many ways, but my point should be clear. I disagree about "staging" his death, however it was necessary to escape from it all

Didn't someone just say that Jesus got killed by a spear to his side. I would love to kill 50 specimens with a spear to the side, and equally save fifty more from piercing their thorax. Your knowledge in first aid and surgery obvuiously is at a minimum (as mine is too, although I have saved a few from certain death through ehat I have learned from my Red Cross/Crescent training. So you might indeed say I am carrying my cross, for some times I do carry it.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Why did Jesjuah kill himself, and why did God put him to death?

Why do you keep asking me this, when I've answered you and you just don't like the answer?

You still have not answered me. You have provided the colpit of what theology says about the thing. You still have not given as much as a hint of what you yourself believe.

I've flat out said EXACTLY what I believe. On what planet are we not allowed to have beliefs which are in concordance with existing thought? I have studied the Doctrine of Atonement, given it thought, and come to the conclusion that it makes sense to me.

I think you fail to understand a basic premise -- doctrine seeks to explain something that happened, nothing more. Christians believe that Christ was God, that Christ died on the cross, and that the passages in scripture related to this help us sort that out, and the result of St. Anselm's thinking, anyway, is this Doctrine.

If you don't like it, you don't have to accept it, but your own personal preferences aren't binding on me or anyone else, sorry.

What does "colpit" mean, anyway? Doesn't appear to be an English word.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Didn't someone just say that Jesus got killed by a spear to his side

Actually, scripture clearly states that Jesus was already dead, and the soldier stuck the spear in him to make sure of the fact (the usual practice was to break the legs of those crucified to "hurry them along" when things got boring, but when they went to do this to Christ, they found him already dead. This fulfilled an Old Testament prophecy.)

Bear in mind that he'd been basically tortured earlier and likely died from blood loss not typical of others crucified who were not scourged.

reply to post by adjensen


The problem that I see is that for one to subsribe to the Bible and its teachings is to subsribe to that agenda, and that agenda has Jesus dying on the cross. As it is a religious text with an agenda, the possiblity that has been presented presumes that since religion often deals in mythology and not in fact, anyone who is Christian might not be able to see it.

Originally posted by adjensen
I've flat out said EXACTLY what I believe.

Which is somehow what 99% of what all other devoted "Christians" believe. Don't come here and tell me you have all reasoned into the same answer, no YOU have been TOLD what to BELIEVE and you are simply QUOTING the MIRACLE FORMULA that made your forerunners "survive". Pity realy. Bloody pityless actually. A frecking lost cause ready to leave millions in Hell and bring a few devoted truthseekers into the future. I have no pity for such, when you have all been shown what really happened without doing anything else than quoting and parroting your forrunners. None of them SURVIVED LIFE. We may very well do that. We know what it takes to live eternally. We have to tamper with genetics.