Did Jesjuah stage his own death in order to escape from it all?, page 2

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reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 11:54 AM by amc621

reply to post by Soldier of God

I apologize, maybe I'm missing something. Your explanation makes no sense. God created man, man needed reconcilliation, God sends his own son to suffer to pay for man's sins. God has paid the price.

Let me know where I'm missing something, seriously I would like to have a better understanding, This has not ever made sense to me.

God, the supreme being, to me should / does not need to pay the price for anything. The supreme being, is so he/she chooses can have things the way he/she designed.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 11:54 AM by Soldier of God

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Soldier of God

I don't believe in no Jesus. My faith is to the guy whose name was Jesjuah bin Joseph, aka Jesjuah ha-Mesjiach, who taught me a trick or two about healing fatal injuries and fake death in the sense of logic and grace. No prophet was ever called Jesus, and no Jew born in Judea some 2000 years+ has ever been called Jesus.

Believe what you want, we'll all find out soon enough...

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 11:56 AM by Soldier of God

Originally posted by amc621
reply to post by Soldier of God

I apologize, maybe I'm missing something. Your explanation makes no sense. God created man, man needed reconcilliation, God sends his own son to suffer to pay for man's sins. God has paid the price.

Let me know where I'm missing something, seriously I would like to have a better understanding, This has not ever made sense to me.

God, the supreme being, to me should / does not need to pay the price for anything. The supreme being, is so he/she chooses can have things the way he/she designed.

Correct, we sinned against God and He bore the cost. Just like you would do if one of your children wrecked their car into your neighbor's house.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 11:57 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by Soldier of God

If there is something that you dont understand or do not know...does part of your belief give you faith that God will frogive that and understand it?

And if that is so with you...what about with others that may not understand or know?

What about someone with good intent in life, always tried to love others and be humble and honest....is their lack of belief really going to matter?

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 11:59 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by Soldier of God

But for how long does a parent cover the cost of the child's damage?

Eventually, the parent slowly allows the child to pay for their own damages.

If the parent kept saving the child from being responsible...then what would the child learn? How would they ever grow up?

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:01 PM by Neo Christian Mystic

reply to post by IAMIAM

Indeed. What did Jesjuah say himself? "Do to others what you'd like others would do to you". And "The greatest kind of Love is to enter death for another to live". Jesjuah didn't die for us other than in baptism, the soldier at the foot of the cross however died instead of him, since he let a death-convict survive, and showed this convict the greatest kind of love around. This centurion was traditionally called Longinus Panthera, or the "Lion's Lance". To me he is up there with Stephanos as the first marthyrs. Jesjuah only died once in my understanding. True death cannot be undone, not even for gods, as demonstrated throughout religious history.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:03 PM by amc621

reply to post by Soldier of God

I see. So we sinned against God, therefore God had to send Jesus to earth. Jesus suffered because we sinned.

My question is this, if God is a good, forgiving and loving God. Wouldn't God just forgiven us for our sins instead of making Jesus suffer. I don't see how that is a lesson learned.

You sin, someone suffers for the sin, therefore to get forgiveness someone else needs to suffer.

That sounds like a God who would want all people to feel guilt. To not aprreciate life and loving what we have around us, but to constantly feel bad, feel guilty.

I believe the Supreme being is more benevolent than that.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:08 PM by Soldier of God

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by Soldier of God

If there is something that you dont understand or do not know...does part of your belief give you faith that God will frogive that and understand it?

And if that is so with you...what about with others that may not understand or know?

What about someone with good intent in life, always tried to love others and be humble and honest....is their lack of belief really going to matter?

All God asks is that we accept that no amount of good works can ever get us into heaven. If we come to that point, then we can accept his offer to transfer our sin to Jesus. Once our sin is transferred to Him, our standing before God is "sin-free". It's a legal transfer. God declares that legally, we are in right standing before him. There is no longer anything preventing us from getting to heaven.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:12 PM by Soldier of God

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Yes there is a time where you will be held accountable. That is why we are put through trials and life's sorrows to refine each of us.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:17 PM by slimmerpickens

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

Could you go into more detail regarding the geometry you speak of? Also, I am left wondering where the spelling Jesjuah comes from as I have only ever seen it spelled Yeshuah. I am assuming this geometry is some type of numerology which would depend on the spelling? I remember hearing something similar in regards to 666 and Nero. I also do remember some newer discovery about 616 being the actual number a few years ago so maybe there is some validity to this supposition.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:17 PM by Blue Shift

If Jesus existed at all, his story was probably really something like this:

This guy, Jesus, who has some distant claim to being King of the Jews through his mother, studies up on his sorcery and magic and presents himself to be the Messiah. With the help of his aunt, Salome, he basically takes over the already large following and a lot of the philosophy of his cousin, John the Baptist, and goes around casting out demons, generating money, and building his following. Eventually, he gets a little too ambitious for his own good (and possibly infected by some demons, himself), goes a little nuts, and heads to Jerusalem to claim his title. He causes a ruckus in the Temple, and mostly for being a pain in the butt, he's arrested, tried, convicted and executed. There are a few Gnostic stories that suggest Simon Peter took his place on the cross, but that's not what the bulk of them say.

Not long after, somebody else who looks completely different shows up and convinces some of Jesus's following that he is Jesus back from the dead, and some believe it. That person doesn't stick around too long, but it starts rumors.

And so some of the Apostles continue to do demon casting and preaching to make a living, and eventually the stories get mixed up and re-edited, and Christianity lingers in the background for a couple hundred years until the Emperor Constantine credits it with helping him win a battle, and the stories get standardized. That's probably what happened.

There are some other weird things that might have happened, like the time travelers at the tomb, and so on, but it makes the most sense as just a plain and simple story about an overly-ambitious guy who failed to become King of the Jews.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:17 PM by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by Soldier of God

Believe what you want, we'll all find out soon enough...

Obviously nothing can rock your Petra mantra. Jesus died, and I agree, Jesjuah survived, and we were shown how to survive even the worst case scenario, since there is love in other places than inside yourselves, but also in retired centurions who needs a little extra something to be ressurrected (cloned from bones etc. in the future) and become a child of God in the Kingdom. How can anyone claim Jesjuah had to show this love, while none others? And if others showed it, then how come you lie against it? Jesjuah says himself it is impossible to survive the certain death, called the second death, and we are also shown that baptism counts as first death. Personally I survive the certain death about once a year since my faith allows me to continue alive and relatively unharmed. I don't walk around calling meself the Son of God in effect of that, I simply thank God for all the extra days he has given me, and promise I won't live life to the limit every bloody day and excuise myself for having turned to the Spirit for help who has shown me mercy every time I was supposed to be dead. I should have been dead atleast 40 times during my life. Like Johnny Cash and friends sing in the song below, life and death may be deceiving:

YouTube Link

(Check out the lyrics).

edit on 18/10/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic because: Clarified

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:18 PM by Soldier of God

Originally posted by amc621
reply to post by Soldier of God

My question is this, if God is a good, forgiving and loving God. Wouldn't God just forgiven us for our sins instead of making Jesus suffer.

He sent his Son to die for you and you ask if He is a good, forgiving, loving God???

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:22 PM by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Soldier of God
All God asks is that we accept that no amount of good works can ever get us into heaven. If we come to that point, then we can accept his offer to transfer our sin to Jesus. Once our sin is transferred to Him, our standing before God is "sin-free". It's a legal transfer. God declares that legally, we are in right standing before him. There is no longer anything preventing us from getting to heaven.

My goodness my friend, sounds like you need a lawyer to plead your case into heaven. Heaven is right here before our eyes. The only thing God wants from us is to love him with all our being and our neighbors as ourselves. At least that is what Jesus said.

God forgives all. Your damnation is your own judgement of others.

Judge not, Love all, be at peace

With Love,

Your Brother

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:22 PM by Neo Christian Mystic

reply to post by Soldier of God

OK, so kill your own son and prove to God what blessed Abraham was unable to when he tried to kill his only begotten son. There is no way that God would demand human sacrifice. But all the Christian dissidents of the Roman branch still believe that God is dealing with human sacrifice. If I could I would destroy such ignorance by calling you son and putting a fist into the softspot in your head or something. It just doesn't work the way you claim, that God accepts human sacrifice, other than in the symbolic realm.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:22 PM by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by Soldier of God

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by Soldier of God

If there is something that you dont understand or do not know...does part of your belief give you faith that God will frogive that and understand it?

And if that is so with you...what about with others that may not understand or know?

What about someone with good intent in life, always tried to love others and be humble and honest....is their lack of belief really going to matter?

All God asks is that we accept that no amount of good works can ever get us into heaven. If we come to that point, then we can accept his offer to transfer our sin to Jesus. Once our sin is transferred to Him, our standing before God is "sin-free". It's a legal transfer. God declares that legally, we are in right standing before him. There is no longer anything preventing us from getting to heaven.

And so for you to know this golden rule that good works cant get you into heaven....God counted on another man to write this down in a earthly book for you to have this wisdom....right?

And God lost faith that you or I would not one day understand and be able to carry our own cross and come to Thee? Be ready to live more for Spirit over the flesh....and that now we have to place Jesus's blood on our hands through believing another had to die when God says to 'not kill'.

What sense is this?

My point is, by looking into life, where the word is...a different story is told. To just go by the scriptures...is this really seeking?

So what have you learned on your personal path of seeking within, as Jesus said to do? And you are aware that Jesus did say for you to pick up your own cross...right?

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:26 PM by adjensen

Originally posted by amc621
reply to post by Soldier of God

I see. So we sinned against God, therefore God had to send Jesus to earth. Jesus suffered because we sinned.

My question is this, if God is a good, forgiving and loving God. Wouldn't God just forgiven us for our sins instead of making Jesus suffer. I don't see how that is a lesson learned.

It is not about learning a lesson -- it is about atonement.

First, I hope that you recognize that Christians believe that Christ IS God. God didn't send some random guy named Jesus to suffer and die, he sent himself. If you don't get that, then you won't understand much about Christianity.

Secondly, St. Anselm demonstrated it this way. The nature of a crime is related to whom it is committed against, and the debt required to result in satisfaction is commensurate with that. For example, treason against a king is a worse crime than betraying a peasant (appropriate for Anselm's times) or the way that we see a man beating a child to be a worse crime than a man beating his wife, which is a worse crime than a man beating his male friend.

In the case of sin, we have committed a crime against an infinite being, God, resulting in a debt which is infinite. For God to have satisfaction, he can't simply "wave it off" as you imply, because this would be simply acquiescing to evil, saying that our actions don't matter. But we have an infinite debt, one that we can never possibly pay, unless the one who is also infinite pays the debt for us.

And so that's what he did. He, God, suffered for our sins, but, for those who accept this sacrifice, our infinite debt for a lifetime of sin has been paid.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:26 PM by Soldier of God

reply to post by IAMIAM

Well I don't know what you believe in but we cannot save ourselves.

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:30 PM by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by Soldier of God
reply to post by IAMIAM

Well I don't know what you believe in but we cannot save ourselves.

And neither could Jesjuah or these guys' brainchild "Jesus". Or are they saying the mob got their fifteen seconds and the longest straw when they cried "Doctor heal yourself!"

edit on 18/10/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic because: moved an Iota/jod, the smallest spark of God....

edit on 18/10/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic because: Moved to third person to help SoG

reply posted on 18-10-2010 @ 12:33 PM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by adjensen

Let me give you a 'what if'....

What if....by not discerning and just accepting what you do...by believing another being 'had to die' you have no less committed the murder.

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