Nazi Atomic weapons in 1943

That document is an easily determinable fraud. It is typed on contemporary type face and would be laughed at by anyone who has ever even researched coloring books.
What is with some of you.


Well, caught off guard here I would say:

"It cites a declassified MAGIC decrypt from December 1944 referring to German use of nuclear weapons about August 1943. "Stockholm to Tokyo, No. 232.9" December 1944 (War Department), National Archives, RG 457, declassified October 1, 1978. The decrypt reads"

This statement: "RG 457, declassified October 1, 1978" means absolutely nothing and is inert because that is not the way war department records are re' or de' classified. The system simply doesn't work like that. That is exactly why no one can find it.

As far as the American Archives is concerned you will need to work with the staff (translated: You better have a damn good reason for wanting to know this) Also, since nothing like this will ever be digitized that would incur a personal visit. To get information such as this, or even be considered for an interview by the staff, you would need to go through the office of your US Senator. The normal background checks+1 would be in order.

Your best chance for something like this would be the archives in Europe. As long as you stay in the mainstream -JKF, Civil rights, Hoover and his FBI, this that and the other the staff at the American Archive will be very helpful. Start pressing around for stuff like this and stir the soup too much and you will never get anything.
I would start at the most obvious place Nuremberg.

The best, and most reliable way to hey or nay military information like this is from the selected few who have access to all the records. In this case it would, of course, be Kershaw who has unlimited access to ever single military archive in the world. Knowing his works as I do I'm sure he would categorize this as 'Gewäsch' or perhaps 'kletspraat' the German and Dutch words for claptrap.

Whatever he knows about nuclear test secrets like this he is sure not going to tell anyone-unless he decides too which he will not.

reply to post by spooky24


Oh, very well said!

reply to post by spooky24




That's contemporary typeface?

Originally posted by spooky24
That document is an easily determinable fraud. It is typed on contemporary type face and would be laughed at by anyone who has ever even researched coloring books.
What is with some of you.

Well, caught off guard here I would say:

"It cites a declassified MAGIC decrypt from December 1944 referring to German use of nuclear weapons about August 1943. "Stockholm to Tokyo, No. 232.9" December 1944 (War Department), National Archives, RG 457, declassified October 1, 1978. The decrypt reads"

This statement: "RG 457, declassified October 1, 1978" means absolutely nothing and is inert because that is not the way war department records are re' or de' classified. The system simply doesn't work like that. That is exactly why no one can find it.

As far as the American Archives is concerned you will need to work with the staff (translated: You better have a damn good reason for wanting to know this) Also, since nothing like this will ever be digitized that would incur a personal visit. To get information such as this, or even be considered for an interview by the staff, you would need to go through the office of your US Senator. The normal background checks+1 would be in order.

As I believe I noted previously the RG 457 document was kindly obtained and photographed by my friend from Kentucky.

The best, and most reliable way to hey or nay military information like this is from the selected few who have access to all the records.

What a load of cods-wallop, the FOIA does not confer rights of access to a selected few.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
reply to post by spooky24

 

That's contemporary typeface?

You must be living in a cave, nobody I know has used a typewriter since the 1970's

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

I have no idea who you're talking about. I do however have to say that I'm still utterly unconvinced by your statements.

Edit: Your link does through to a statement from a witness who seems to have seen a large explosion but hardly an atomic explosion.

edit on 4-3-2013 by AngryCymraeg because: (no reason given)

Who cares whether you are convinced Gwydion Madawc Williams?

Naive is the word I would use to describe your views on history. You mentioned that you were going to rummage around for your copy of Most Secret War, British Scientific Intelligence 1939-1945, pub 1978, RV Jones....

Well let me spare you the effort by citing you from my copy. He makes little comment on the Nazi Atomic bomb and none at all on Antrhax.

p.593-594 discusses Eric Welsh, Heavy Water, the migration of Nazi nuclear science south from Hamburg and Berlin to the Hechingen area and the apparent lack of activity there and surprise at the publishing of several papers which Jones thought should be kept secret.

By this stage in the war the atomic bomb project had shifted to the provenance of the SS and underground laboratories in Czechoslovakia, Melk, Zell am See and near Arnstadt. This is no idle conjecture but is referred to in telegrams from the OSS station chief in Switzerland from various insider sources.

At page.594 RV Jones mentions that Neils Bohr told him Heisenberg disclosed in October 1941, that Germany was already working on the Atomic bomb. RV Jones cites that Heisenberg told Air Marshal Milch at a conference in February 1942 that if one could assemble a lump of pure enriched uranium then a nuclear bomb, big enough to destroy a city would be the size of a Pineapple. RV Jones then made a peculiar footnote with an observation that if anything Heisenberg overstated the size of a bomb made with pure Uranium because even less Uranium was required than Heisenberg had suggested.

RV Jones does however concede that The British government had kept secret until 1978 the existence of Bletchley Park and the wholesale de-cryption of Enigma traffic during the war, thus RV Jones himself had been a fellow co-conspirator in deceiving the British people by his silence long after the war

This is the source which you advance to assure us that other important secrets have not been with-held from the public. How convincing, I think not.

reply to post by sy.gunson


Please stop referring to me as this Williams person, as I am not him.

Originally posted by Lawgiver
this post and the replies are like a freaking physics lesson. i had a few years of physics in college but nothing like this. in the realm of possibility, most people would believe that towards the end of wwii, germany was able to make some headway into a fission based nuclear weapon, a dirty weapon of sorts. wouldn't an experimental explosion be able to be tracked and documented? but back on point. is the issue whether they had or not? or is the real issue that another country with the initials usa provide the technical info to the germans? and the horrific concept of that truth? just saying.

Quite correct it is called fission track analysis. The problem is that in the calculations required to identify the original fission event (ie explosion) the known yield must first be inputted and where this either is unknown or the nature and type of warhead is variable due to the fission efficiency, the range of error is wide.

Where soil samples are available with the artificial radionuclide Caesium 137 if the soil has been historically undisturbed then one can drawn conclusions from the depth at which 137Cs is deposited. Chernobyl event 137Cs is not deposited any deeper than 0.5cm, whilst 1945 deposits are located at 2 cm depth.

One can however draw some valid assumptions from the ratio between Caesium 137 and Barium 137 as to the age of the Caesium 137.

What is known however is that in December 1944 before the first US nuclear bomb test in July 1945, ALSOS obtained samples of Rhone valley wine with Caesium 137 in it.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

Please stop referring to me as this Williams person, as I am not him.

Okay how about fuzzy faced welshman ...that works for me?

reply to post by sy.gunson


Huh?

I was questioning the statement that the document was "contemporary typeface" and you make that remark?

FOIA???

That is judicial process in which attorneys argue in front of a Magistrate the vitality of a documents classification status. The Freedom of information Act does NOT cover, or apply to, any documents within the frame of a declared war.
The bottom line is this. Kershaw said that the heavy water program was just like so many others-he pointed to the so called Alpine Redoubt-it was all just more manufactured leak fodder for a regime that was desperate to instill fear into it's cavalcade of enemy's marching to destroy it-in a war that had been lost for years.

Since the Knighted one himself is the only one with all the information-99.9% of those who study the period in history accept his judgement and move on.

End of story.

Originally posted by sy.gunson

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

Please stop referring to me as this Williams person, as I am not him.

Okay how about fuzzy faced welshman ...that works for me?

Welsh, yes, fuzzy-faced no. Never been bearded. Still not Williams. You have mistaken me for someone else.

If the Nazis had the atomic bomb, many of the high ranking Nazis would've escaped to various parts of the world through the Odessa ranks.

Wait? They did.

Hmmm...that means the Nazis had the atomic bomb but didn't tell Hitler about it. Instead, they used their knowledge as barter for the Nazi Witness Protection Program.

Hitler had Parkinsons. He'd become a meth freak treating the Parkinsons. Those Nazis who weren't trying to assassinate Hitler were keeping secrets from Hitler.

And it's a shame that the Rosenbergs got the bum rap of having passed atomic secrets to Stalin.

Originally posted by coltcall
If the Nazis had the atomic bomb, many of the high ranking Nazis would've escaped to various parts of the world through the Odessa ranks.

Wait? They did.

Hmmm...that means the Nazis had the atomic bomb but didn't tell Hitler about it. Instead, they used their knowledge as barter for the Nazi Witness Protection Program.

Hitler had Parkinsons. He'd become a meth freak treating the Parkinsons. Those Nazis who weren't trying to assassinate Hitler were keeping secrets from Hitler.

And it's a shame that the Rosenbergs got the bum rap of having passed atomic secrets to Stalin.

No they didn't - the top-ranking Nazis were all caught and put on trial. Goring, Speer, Kaltenbrunner, Donitz, the lot of them. Borman was killed trying to get out of Berlin, Himmler killed himself, Hitler took the cowards way out, as did Goebbels.

Wernher Von Braun,

The Nazi scientist brought to America that ended up running NASA......."we gave the bomb to America because a Christian Nation wouldn't use it".....

Boy was he wrong.

Additional evidence turned in in the mid-1990's. When America did that START nuclear weapon reduction Treaty with Russia allowing them to inspect all our sites for nuclear weapons...before the Russians went through everything Teams of Scientists and Military Officers went through everything first.....

Lucky they did go through our military bases in Germany before the Russians came through....Nazi nuclear stuff was still being found in the mid 1990's. Almost caused us 'problems' with the START Treaty.

Germany built the bomb first. They feared the world backlash if they used it.

Originally posted by Pervius
Wernher Von Braun,

The Nazi scientist brought to America that ended up running NASA......."we gave the bomb to America because a Christian Nation wouldn't use it".....

Boy was he wrong.

Additional evidence turned in in the mid-1990's. When America did that START nuclear weapon reduction Treaty with Russia allowing them to inspect all our sites for nuclear weapons...before the Russians went through everything Teams of Scientists and Military Officers went through everything first.....

Lucky they did go through our military bases in Germany before the Russians came through....Nazi nuclear stuff was still being found in the mid 1990's. Almost caused us 'problems' with the START Treaty.

Germany built the bomb first. They feared the world backlash if they used it.

I'm sorry, but if you think that the nation that committed mass-murder on an industrial scale was afraid of world opinion you have another think coming. If Germany had had the bomb Hitler would have used it, especially at the end of the war when Hitler no longer gave a damn about anything at all.
Anyway, this is besides the point. There is still no evidence, at all - other than in conspiracy theories and books based on speculation and hearsay - that the Germans built the Bomb.

Originally posted by denynothing
Germany never could have detonated nuclear weapons, when the Americans captured the lead scientists on the German nuclear project they were interrogated saying that it would take over a thousand pounds of plutonium to make a nuclear, and were astounded when they were told America did it with 1-10 lbs

America didn't do it. However America, Britain and Canada did. The first atomic bombs where not just an American project ( even though some Americans like to tale all the credit)

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by mbkennel

Originally posted by dowot
Winston Churchill was, at one point of the war, thinking of using Anthrax and possibly other poisons, the use of which would have been catastrophic to a large part of Europe.

For him to consider this course, must have come as an answer to some equally devastating threat from Hitlers Germany.

The Wehrmacht's success through 1942 was substantial enough.

Of course that threat may just have been bluster, the threats of a slightly deranged megalomaniac and have had no basis in fact. Or maybe there was?

It's doubtful Churchill even knew of the concept of a nuclear weapon until 1945.

There are many ignorant people who post on here. Churchill was well aware about the concept of nuclear weapons, and in fact Britain was well ahead of the US in research. If you want REAL facts then they are here:-

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by alldaylong


Wikipedia has "good facts" but not real facts.