Nazi Atomic weapons in 1943

reply to post by sy.gunson


That's interesting. Japanese mineralogical science has always been somewhat to totally superior to western mineralogy. They still (possibly excepting Gothenburg) produce the finest steel on earth.

Just another example of how different routes to the same goal can be pursued successfully.

reply to post by sy.gunson


Do you have any more information about this Nazi beam weapon? Beam weapon technology, especially early beam weapons, dovetails with my interest in radio and allied technologies.

Tesla's beam weapon was demonstrated a number of times and there are press reports to this effect, but I believe that he was working with an entirely different set of theories which makes reconstruction of his efforts all but impossible without more detailed information.

One of my pet theories is that Tesla's theories on electromagnetism have been exploited and developed in parallel with more conventional physics, and the fact that Tesla technology is still highly classified is one clue for those with eyes and ears.

Originally posted by sy.gunson

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by bigdohbeatdown
If this dude can build this in his back yard... then what can a team of scientists do with the resources of the third Reich behind them and the threat of death for failure?

As to resources... Resources were really scarce in Germany in the second half of the war. Just read up on history. They finally managed to produce synthetic gasoline out of coal, and that's indeed a major engineering feat. But it shows how bad things were. Shortage of spare parts for their tanks and other equipment played a role in their defeat. And then the Allies were quick to discover the synthetic fuel facilities and bombed the hell out of them.

So scarce in fact that they mass produced the incredible Me262 in tunnels under a mountain at Khala, an advanced particle accelerator at Bissingen, submarines so advanced (ie Type XXI and XXIII) that they directly inspired submarine development in USA and Russia for decades to come.

And speaking of nuclear research, the humble Pupin Hall on the campus of Columbia U (nostalgic feelings...), was a host to many of the nuclear physics discoveries even before the war. Fermi did some world class work there, so I'm utterly unimpressed with whatever you have to say about Germany.

If I remember correctly, there is (or was, years ago) a stump of a sawed-off howitzer in Pupin Hall, 7th or 8th floor, I believe. Whatever they say, I have my own conspiracy theory -- it was hauled up there to consider as a prototype for a gun-type uranium nuclear bomb. It always looked weird and out of place.

reply to post by buddhasystem


See, your statement above indicates still that you need to open your mind a bit. One successful thread of development at Columbia does not automatically invalidate another success elsewhere. This is not a mere duplication of effort that we are talking about, but independent development of nuclear research along other lines.

Your post is, in its quaint way, reminiscent of the Newton v Leibniz debate. The impressive thing is not that one guy got there first, but that both arrived at a similar place even though both were working along different lines.

Do you have anything to actually add to this? You seem to only post dubious doubts of limited usefulness.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

See, your statement above indicates still that you need to open your mind a bit. One successful thread of development at Columbia does not automatically invalidate another success elsewhere.

No, but it puts it in perspective. It's maybe more exciting to talk about "brilliant Nazi scientists" and their "cutting edge research", whereas in reality they were just OK compared to their counterparts elsewhere.

reply to post by sy.gunson


What do you make of the large shipments of mercury sent by Germany to Japan? Is this in any related to their pursuit of the bomb (mercury is an excellent solvent of other metals under the right conditions) or perhaps their electronics industry?

I have always found this to be pretty curious. Mercury could be an excellent component of a centrifuge operation.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

Do you have any more information about this Nazi beam weapon? Beam weapon technology, especially early beam weapons, dovetails with my interest in radio and allied technologies.

Tesla's beam weapon was demonstrated a number of times and there are press reports to this effect, but I believe that he was working with an entirely different set of theories which makes reconstruction of his efforts all but impossible without more detailed information.

One of my pet theories is that Tesla's theories on electromagnetism have been exploited and developed in parallel with more conventional physics, and the fact that Tesla technology is still highly classified is one clue for those with eyes and ears.

Another way to describe Tesla methodology is to talk about plasma discharges.

The Nazis were intensely interested in Tesla's work before WW2 and acquired all his research documents they could lay their hands on whilst in USA the scientific community and Government were disinterested. Powerful plasma discharges are X-rays which can excite radioactivity in fissile material which is why another way of describing the Schumann trinks Atomic bomb is to refer to it as a Plasma Pinch initiated sub-critical nuclear weapon.

As for the particle beam weapons the Nazis had tow competing designs and each found their own approach to aiming or directing the beam.

One was installed in a subterranean bunker beneath Grossosstheim Air base south of Franfurt am Main. It's beam was often encountered by Allied bombers and disrupted their engines to make aircraft fall out of formation for attack by the Luftwaffe or descend into Flak fire. US bombers were ordered to avoid the locality.

One was developed by a man called Shiebold and encompassed nine rods of Beryllium along the axis of a particle accelerator which induced a beam to fire vertically along the path of these rods.

The japanese also developed similar beam weapons and the t5echnology used for this also traversed the same techniques required to transmute Thorium into Uranium via Protactinium.

A good place to start is the excellent biography of Rolf Wideroe by Waloshek

Rolf Wideroe biography

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

What do you make of the large shipments of mercury sent by Germany to Japan? Is this in any related to their pursuit of the bomb (mercury is an excellent solvent of other metals under the right conditions) or perhaps their electronics industry?

I have always found this to be pretty curious. Mercury could be an excellent component of a centrifuge operation.

I came across a reference on the website J-fleets on the Sensuken logs of voyage careers of Japanese submarines during WW2 that a japanese historian noted submarines returning from France in WW2 stored uranium oxide in their flooded keels as an amalgam of Mercury in steel flasks. If you think about it this was an easy crush resistant way to store Uranium and could easily be separated after the voyage by simple heating.

When I approached the owner of the J-fleet website for contact with the Japanese historian cited as the source the reference was removed from the website and the site's owner became quite aggressive in response. I also tried to contact the Japanese historian directly and he refused to respond.

You should also note that U-864 was sunk off Bergen Harbour departing for Japan and the wreck has since been found littered with steel flasks of mercury. An obscure Norwegian report on the wreck mentions radioactivity on the seabed around the site, however Norwegian authorities refuse all further comment or acknowledgement.

Mercury however is also vital to fuzes for explosive devices, and for instruments in aircraft and ships.

In reference to it's use in the so called Nazi Bell (about whose purpose I vehemently disagree with Farrell) SS Lt General Jakob Sporrenberg mentions the use of "Red Mercury" in a pink jelly containing oxides of Thorium and Beryllium.

Farrell talks a load of nonsense about anti-gravity devices....

Red Mercury or Mercury Iodide is a superconductor. The jelly substance was likely a parrafin compound developed by Dr Harold Alpers at Danzig, later located at Neumakt near Breslau.

This was the material to be transmuted in a particle accelerator.

Sporrenberg also mentioned the spinning of mercury in two contrarotating coaxle drums. Immagine if you can this being inside large induction coils contained under a thick ceramic bell shaped hood (giving the name "Nazi Bell") and you have a Tokamak designed for transmuting Thorium.

Heated mercury vapour fed into a centrifugal particle accelerator ( a type of Tokamak) would have some excellent qualities for stepping up the voltages from a known property of mercury as electrons change energy levels in it's valence shells.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by sy.gunson

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by bigdohbeatdown
If this dude can build this in his back yard... then what can a team of scientists do with the resources of the third Reich behind them and the threat of death for failure?

As to resources... Resources were really scarce in Germany in the second half of the war. Just read up on history. They finally managed to produce synthetic gasoline out of coal, and that's indeed a major engineering feat. But it shows how bad things were. Shortage of spare parts for their tanks and other equipment played a role in their defeat. And then the Allies were quick to discover the synthetic fuel facilities and bombed the hell out of them.

So scarce in fact that they mass produced the incredible Me262 in tunnels under a mountain at Khala, an advanced particle accelerator at Bissingen, submarines so advanced (ie Type XXI and XXIII) that they directly inspired submarine development in USA and Russia for decades to come.

And speaking of nuclear research, the humble Pupin Hall on the campus of Columbia U (nostalgic feelings...), was a host to many of the nuclear physics discoveries even before the war. Fermi did some world class work there, so I'm utterly unimpressed with whatever you have to say about Germany.

If I remember correctly, there is (or was, years ago) a stump of a sawed-off howitzer in Pupin Hall, 7th or 8th floor, I believe. Whatever they say, I have my own conspiracy theory -- it was hauled up there to consider as a prototype for a gun-type uranium nuclear bomb. It always looked weird and out of place.

The Gun stump proves how inelegant and crude the Hiroshima weapon was. The Nagasaki weapon on the other hand was largely created by Jewish emigre scientists trained in european universities.

According to physicist Edward Teller the Russian Physicist George Gamow studied with him at Gottingen under Heisenberg from 1930-31

The most talented emegre nuclear physicists on the Manhatten project were almost always pre-war graduates from Gottingen University in Germany, including I might add Fermi who trained in Quantum Physics under Heisenberg. For example Gamow and Teller. Although Teller was based at Berkely he visited Clombia to expound and explore his ideas frequently during the war.

So if you want to go into sulk and ignore me feel free... no great loss I assure you

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

That's interesting. Japanese mineralogical science has always been somewhat to totally superior to western mineralogy. They still (possibly excepting Gothenburg) produce the finest steel on earth.

Just another example of how different routes to the same goal can be pursued successfully.

I should have added to your request for information that the Rikken near Tokyo was home to Dr Yoshio Nishina's Army research project.

The Japanese Navy (IJN) had been working on an atomic bomb informally since 1937 under the urgings of Dr Asada, however created a formal project called "F-Go" under Dr Arakatsu Bunsuku.

Both projects were amalgamated in 1944 under a new designation "F-NZ" and their laboratory at Hungnam ("Konan") was controlled by General Kawashima under the 8th Imperial Army laboratory.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
The Gun stump proves how inelegant and crude the Hiroshima weapon was.

What it really proves if your total lack of understanding of the subject. There is nothing that makes the gun design inherently crude or "inelegant". Armchair wannabes will disagree, of course. How many tons of Uranium did you ever handle personally? What is the answer, punk? Did you have to haul Thorium? Were you ever sprayed in the face by a radioactive liquid due to an equipment malfunction? Are you feeling OK while posting cr@p here on ATS day in, day out, without having knowledge, expertise and experience in the subject?

The gun design was great. What makes it impractical is the inherent lack of stability in the explosive driver, that can be set off by any sort of events, but wait, more importantly, the characteristics of the fissile material that can be practically produced.

The Nagasaki weapon on the other hand was largely created by Jewish emigre scientists trained in european universities.

That has to be one of the most racist and retired comments ever posted on ATS. What does Jewish heritage of SOME of the physicists have to do with ANYTHING?

Lay off your medicine.

reply to post by sy.gunson


I'm aware of the uses of mercury in explosives. I reload my own ammunition and so this is a familiar subject to me. However, I thought that this red mercury was a myth made up in the Soviet Union?

Anyway thanks for the additional information. I would of course be interested in hearing anything else you have to say on this subject, if you can find the time. Let's keep this thread going and on-topic.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by sy.gunson
CERN was used by scientists as part of a fellowship sponsored by Rand Corporation for the US Air Force to explore the use of antimatter for Fourth Generation nuclear weapons in 1983 and ever since has been collecting antimatter Positrons for use by Los Alamos

How exactly did they "collect positrons"? Why? What is the reason LANL could not produce their own positrons?

Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) did not have it's own facility for collection and study of antimatter in 1983.

This is incorrect. LEAR was never located in the same ring as LHC, that was LEP. LEAR was converted to serve as an ion injector to the LHC and is no longer serving the study of antiprotons. LHC was never a replacement for LEAR.

Yes quite right, it no longer serves in the study of antiprotons....

We are discussing experiments which took place in 1983.

There are two tangential rings like a figure of eight with a large loop and a small loop. The former LEAR ring now serves as a decelerator ring for the capture and slowing of anti-matter.

As I understand it the larger ring is used to accelerate particles and the smaller one to capture them.


To cite again from Andre Gsponer and Jean-Pierre Hurni (A report which I seriously doubt you sincerely read, because it devotes and easily locatable chapter on antimatter):

(Gsponer & Hurni, pp.123-124)

At the end of 1996, CERN’s LEAR facility was decommissioned as part of a major reorganization of the CERN accelerator complex in view of the construction of a new very large accelerator—the Large Hadron Collider (LHC)—which will be the highest-energy hadron accelerator ever built. The construction of LHC will start at the end of year 2000 and last about five years. During this period, there will be no high energy physics at CERN. This is because the LHC will be installed in the same tunnel as the LEP, the Large Electron Positron ring, which is currently the main accelerator of CERN.

In order to continue its program of research on antimatter—which will be the only major physics research program at CERN in the years 2001 to 2005—a new antiproton source, the Antiproton Decelerator (AD), has being constructed [322]. The AD was built using the former Antiproton Collector (AC) ring (commissioned in 1987 to boost CERN’s antiproton levels by a factor of ten) and various components of LEAR (such as the antiproton cooling system). More than half of the cost of building the AD was contributed by Japan

In fact, Japan initiated an ambitious antimatter research program. The Japanese Ministry of Education, Science and Culture (Monbusho) announced in 1997 that “Antimatter Science” had been selected as one of the two most important research projects to be conducted as of 1998 [328]. This is why Monbusho supported the construction of the AD and the participation of Japanese scientists in the CERN antimatter experiments. In return, Japan salvaged various obsolete components of the CERN antiproton complex to build its own antiproton source.

You further stated:

I looked through that source [Gsponer / Hurni] and didn't find that passage (probably my fault), but anyhow, the current level of anti-hydrogen atom production measures in dozens, maybe a hundred at a time. This is a miniscule number. Its significance for weapons development is zero. You can't call 38 atoms frozen together a "pellet".

You say my words are plain false...and then with poker faced dishonesty you attacked me for citing the report which you pretend does not validate my claims: I think you have some enormous effrontery calling me dishonest. If you have the authority and integrity you claim then have the nerve to publish with your real name.

...anyhow, the current level of anti-hydrogen atom production measures in dozens, maybe a hundred at a time.

Precisely, you said it... at a time....and each time the LHC is run up to collect antimatter for Los Alamos these hundred or so anti-matter particles are collected in a trap and flown to Los Alamos, New Mexico for further study.

Given that the collision of just one antiproton with just one Uranium atom releases an enormous store of energy the collection of just a hundred, or so antiprotons is not insignificant at all as you would suggest.

Research for their application in nuclear weapons centres on finding a way infuse them in a meta-stable state, into antimatter enriched pellets or crystals that can then be used in weapons with long shelf lives.

As for pellets you obviously have not read the document sufficiently to have any grasp of it at all and I suspect you feign ignorance of several issues raised in the document, most likely I suspect because to properly acknowledge what the document wrote undermines your credibility, not mine.

Clearly you don’t know as much as you claim to know.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by sy.gunson
The Gun stump proves how inelegant and crude the Hiroshima weapon was.

What it really proves if your total lack of understanding of the subject. There is nothing that makes the gun design inherently crude or "inelegant".

Actually you explained the reason perfectly yourself...

A Uranium gun barrel device (like Little Boy used on Hiroshima) is prone to premature detonation because there is a lack of fail-safe control over it, when in the next breath you absurdly shot yourself in the foot with this remark:

The gun design was great. What makes it impractical is the inherent lack of stability in the explosive driver, that can be set off by any sort of events....

The gun design was not great... it was totally crude and primitive.

If the Hiroshima styled gun barrel device were such an elegant and efficient device why is it no longer in use?

Of course more significant was that it was remarkably inefficient...Only 1.4%, or just 780 grams of the 64 kilograms of Uranium 235 (enriched at enormous expense) actually underwent nuclear chain reaction in the blast over Hiroshima.

The Nagasaki Plutonium bomb, Fat Man by contrast had 16% efficiency, but of course if you were really a genuine nuclear physicist, perhaps you would already know this and not need me to recount it for you, would you?


Even the superior Nagasaki style device was abandoned by 1948 as too crude and inefficient. Nagasaki Mark III type bombs were overtaken by a yet more efficient design with a levitated core trialled in “Sandstone” tests at Eniwetok Atoll.

The really remarkable thing is without USA drafting the post war guidance of a Nazi nuclear physicist, Dr Kurt Diebner who led the Nazi atomic bomb project during the War the United States might never have figured out how to boost the efficiency of these Atomic weapons.

Armchair wannabes will disagree, of course. How many tons of Uranium did you ever handle personally? What is the answer, punk? Did you have to haul Thorium? Were you ever sprayed in the face by a radioactive liquid due to an equipment malfunction? Are you feeling OK while posting cr@p here on ATS day in, day out, without having knowledge, expertise and experience in the subject?

Your experience is irrelevant...All your qualifications and experience are basically dustbin trash Buddhasystem if you lack an ability to think rationally and outside the square. It seems to me that your qualifications merely certify your conformity to regimented thinking.

That is the difference with scientists educated at Gottingen pre-war, that they were genuine independent thinkers able to think intuitively and not afraid to innovate.

I believe I’ve encountered you before on the BBC forum website on a thread about the Nazi Bell where I think we already established there that you were some sort of lab technician using a little LINAC device with grandiose visions of your own importance. On that forum you managed to muzzle me by having that thread locked.

In my experience of you on the BBC website when you couldn’t win by force of logic then you resorted to dirty politics, muzzling debate by complaints to moderators when in fact you inflamed debates yourself with your own insults to create a pretext for complaining.

That of course is why you are now floating a red herring about Jewish émigré scientists. It is not a racist remark at all, but simply a factual statement.

Let me cite you this historical quotation referring to German atomic scientists being held by the Americans, including those held on British soil:

...General Groves was convinced they were 'superior in all-round ability to the group which had started the New Mexico laboratory.

(T-Force” by Sean Longden, page 195)

Just to remind you Brigadier General Leslie Groves led the Manhattan Project so he would have some fair idea wouldn’t he?

Likewise the Monsanto report, NA G-371, dated Nov 8 1945 prepared at the end of the War for the Manhattan Committee chairman Dr Arthur Compton summarising the abilities of Nazi scientists based upon analysis of the Goudsmitt papers had this to say of the abilities of Nazi nuclear physicists:

Generally we would say their approach was in no wise inferior to ours; in some respects it was superior.

And now for the little boy who cried wolf!

posted by buddhasystem

The Nagasaki weapon on the other hand was largely created by Jewish emigre scientists trained in european universities.

That has to be one of the most racist and retired comments ever posted on ATS. What does Jewish heritage of SOME of the physicists have to do with ANYTHING?

It is a plain statement of fact, the Manhattan project recruited many German trained Jewish scientists who had emigrated to the United States to escape Nazi persecution. These scientists proved superior in talents and ability to their American cousins.

Have you never studied history?

What it has to do with this narrative is simply this, the Jewish scientists who fled Nazi persecution before the war were German trained and were more capable than their American counterparts of the same era by virtue of their training in Germany. That is the point.

The point is that in the late 1930s nowhere in the world was the understanding of nuclear physics more advanced than in Germany.

I actually don’t see what your difficulty is with that statement, unless of course you are running out of ideas to dispute this topic and have resorted to drama queen hysterics again?

For the record, my father was torpedoed by U-653 in the Atlantic in 1942 and subsequently fought Nazis at the Normandy beaches on D-day and later at Westkappelle. I have never supported Nazi ideology. There is nothing anti-Semitic in my personal beliefs. Your remarks are just foul mouthed slurs.

The point you are trying to distract us from is that Germany, it’s scientists and in particular those from Gottingen University led the whole world in nuclear physics, both before and during WW2.

That includes people like Fermi, Teller, Szilard and Gamow who were the backbone of the Manhattan project, irrespective whether they were Jewish, or not, but definitely because of their German education in nuclear physics.

USA inherited Nazi expertise in science and technology and capitalised by developing it after the War.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

Progress that left no footprint at all??? No paper chain at all, no evidence, no eyewitness and no physical proof. This is getting ridiculous. The V-weapons used up a fraction of the resources that a fully-funded and successful Nazi nuclear programme would have used. The former was detected via Enigma decrypts and other intelligence years before the first V-1 or V-2 was launched. No sign at all of the latter. I wonder why?

No witnesses ?????

Let me see for the Rugen atomic tests in October 1944 there were the following:

• First-hand account of Luigi Romersa 2005 of witnessing Atomic test blast on Baltic coast in October 1944. Romersa died in 2007 after giving interviews available on Youtube.

• The blast itself according to pilot witness Zinsser had a 1000 metre radius with a 100 metre fireball which corresponds to a yield of 0.814kt.

• Grothmann (chief Himmler's adjutant) mentions this test.(Heiko Petermann)

• Stralsund resident Elisabeth Mestlin saw explosion and a large purple mushroom shaped cloud hovering over Büg peninsula from the island of Vitte Hiddensee on 12 October 1944. (Recording the NDR October 2004, source Heiko Petermann)

• Declassified USN Intelligence file report of Captain RF Hickey USN “Investigations, Research, Developments and Practical Use of the German Atomic Bomb” dated 19 August 1945, NARA/RG 38, Box 9-13 Entry 98c issued by COMNAVEU London on 25 January 1946, includes an affidavit of interrogator Capt Helenes T Freiburger recounting testimony given to him by Zinsser and two scientists. The affidavit features a flight in October 1944 by Penemunde observer pilot Hans Zinsser sent aloft to witness and report an atomic bomb test at Rugen October 1945. Zinsser’s interrogator gave Zinsser’s testimony a rating of “B-1” USN Intelligence on a scale which defines B-1 to mean: B= “usually reliable and 1= “Report confirmed by other sources”

• Disclosure by Manhattan Project scientist Philip Morrison to Time magazine 27 November 1944 notes reading interrogation reports of two German officers [captured], near Peenemünde who disclosed that Germany already had the bomb...Morrison said:

“I read a report on the interrogation of German officers [captured], near Peenemünde who had seen the purple mushroom-shaped cloud. We thought this to be very reliable, but they upset us. I sent a memorandum to safety advisers, in which I informed that President Roosevelt should not be meet with Churchill in London, because it was feared London would be attacked by use of the atomic bomb. Every evening and morning I listened BBC radio to see if London still existed. V2 rocket would be enough to move a small atomic bomb.

• Press reports from Stockholm about communication blackouts accompanied by electromagnetic interference dated 11 October 1944.

Nor should I neglect to mention Clare Werner who witnessed the test blasts at Ohrdruf near Arnstadt in March 1945 also available on Youtube as videotaped interviews.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Then you admit you lied when you said that there was no evidence. It's not anybody's fault but your own that you were laughing when you should have been paying attention.

I have reported you for disrupting this thread, because your claims about whether or not any of this evidence stands up are not useful or credible by your own admission. Continually lying and changing your story is not a good way to deal with being caught out.

edit on 26-2-2013 by HattoriHanzou because: (no reason given)

There is no evidence. Not one scrap, not one iota, not one scintilla of evidence that the Nazis had a nuclear bomb. That is what I have stated. That is what I have stuck to. I have not changed my position on this. I have not lied. I have admitted to laughing a lot, but this must be some strange new definition of "lying" that you have created.
I have just reported you by the way for bullying and unreasonable behaviour.

No evidence ???

Declassified USN Intelligence file report of Captain RF Hickey USN “Investigations, Research, Developments and Practical Use of the German Atomic Bomb” dated 19 August 1945, NARA/RG 38, Box 9-13 Entry 98c issued by COMNAVEU London on 25 January 1946, includes an affidavit of interrogator Capt Helenes T Freiburger recounting testimony given to him by Zinsser and two German scientists.

At the location on Bug Isthmus on which the Rugen nuclear tests occurred in October 1944, there are two craters filled with water contaminated by Cobalt 60 and Caesium 137, an artificial radionuclide created in nuclear explosions.

There are no similar coastal ponds or lagoons along the Baltic coast similarly contaminated to the same levels thus it is not radioactive fallout from Chernobyl.

German testing of nuclear weapons is also mentioned in OSS Report A-44 136/5985, 07 November1944

Yes, no evidence at all. Your mention of the report by Hickey is superficially polausible except for one fact - a lot of people have mentioned this report before on other websites and it has been checked out - and no such report exists in the archives. The witnesses were unsure about what was seen and the evidence seems to show that it was a thermobaric bomb, which would produce a big bang, but wouldn't be nuclear. Please remember that any suitably large exploision in the right conditions produces a mushroom cloud. By the way the Bug Ithsmus at Rugen now has a housing estate on it.
By the way the argument that Hitler didn't use the bomb on the Allies because of the countervailing threat of Anthrax doesn't hold up. By the end of the war he was convinced that the German people had let him down (as there could be no other explanation for the fact that the war was lost, in his deluded and insane little head anyway) so he didn't give a damn about the future of Germany. If he had the bomb he would have used it. He didn't. Therefore he didn't have it. QED.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
Yes, no evidence at all. Your mention of the report by Hickey is superficially polausible except for one fact - a lot of people have mentioned this report before on other websites and it has been checked out - and no such report exists in the archives. The witnesses were unsure about what was seen and the evidence seems to show that it was a thermobaric bomb, which would produce a big bang, but wouldn't be nuclear. Please remember that any suitably large exploision in the right conditions produces a mushroom cloud. By the way the Bug Ithsmus at Rugen now has a housing estate on it.

Ha-ha I love it, this is like manna from heaven every time you open your mouth you get it wrong.

Presumably I am talking to that scratched record from Cambridgeshire, Gwydion Madawc Williams again?

remember this:

posted on 26-2-2013 @ 10:04 AM

I note that there is still absolutely no proof, in any way, shape or form, for the claim that the Germans ever created even a mini-nuke.

...and then I posted this?


reply to post by sy.gunson


Evidence which you say never existed?

...and now you say there never was any report US Naval Intelligence report, “Investigations, Research, Developments and Practical Use of the German Atomic Bomb” dated 19 August 1945?

Well here is a portion of it:

i257.photobucket.com...

I am sure you will need a few hours to extract your foot from your mouth

reply to post by sy.gunson


I have no idea who you're talking about. I do however have to say that I'm still utterly unconvinced by your statements.

Edit: Your link does through to a statement from a witness who seems to have seen a large explosion but hardly an atomic explosion.