Defaulting On Home Loans and the Banking Conspiracy

Originally posted by aew14
reply to post by dbloch7986

 

Is this serious? A conspiracy?

Its funny, the more I am here the more I realize that all the paranoid are here at ATS and believe that there is a conspiracy for everything.

You folks do realize that the bank actually loses money when a home is f/c on, right?

Of course you guys dont....to the masses here it seems that there is an underground network who controls everything and also the banks. In addition, they are looking to take down the people by FORCING them to buy homes that they really dont want.

I dont mean to be rude...but guys, [SNIP]

You obviously have not done your research and your statements are soooo WRONG! They make HUGE profits on foreclosures (thanks to our government).

I highly suggest you watch this video and get caught up with the CORRECT facts.



I don't mean to be rude - but I find people who make stated opinions and quote incorrect facts as reckless. So please put down your pipe and get educated.

reply to post by aew14

Actually,
YOU don't know what you are talking about. Banks make TONS of money foreclosing. If they see no money to be made foreclosing, they work "with" the homeowner to keep them in the house.
YOU really need to do some research yourself. In fact, there are several ongoing threads right now on ATS where you can do that.

reply to post by Julie Washington


You have it right Julie, good post and find, I learned all about how this works years ago when I went for my Real Estate Brokers license, finance and how it works was a big part of my education. It is true that banks who foreclose on homes don't care how much they eventually sell these homes for they still get paid and paid and paid by whom, that would be you and me the taypayers.

wow. im very impressed dbloch.


that was very easy to understand and puts the whole picture right in a very solid frame.

im actually going to print this and circulate it to those who i feel may not understand the scope of all this. protos followup included.

well earned stars for you both.

I am a real estate attorney in South Carolina, and have conducted thousands of real estate transactions for citizens just like you. While I do not defend the actions of the federal and even state governments in creating a huge real estate nightmare, I do believe that there is much, much more to the "how" and "why" the mortgage crisis arose.

First, I would like to point out that the government has acted in a grossly negligent manner over the past several years, and spanning several administrations, both Republican and Democrat. Their actions have assisted in creating the current economic meltdown without question. While I personally believe the government may have even intentionally created issues, and even that there may be a banking conspiracy, the original post here was an over-simplification of the problem, and not due just to governmental negligence or stupid laws.

The original post focused on asking why the banks own so much property, and did not delve much further. The reason banks own property is foreclosure. Banks do not go out and purchase property as speculative real estate developers or owner to make money; rather, they give loans to people who did not pay, or became unable to pay, which led to a foreclosure. When a bank forcloses on a home, there are several things which must be addressed. First, a bank loses money on foreclosing on the property. They must hire an attorney to foreclose, hire and pay a real estate agent to market and sell the property, and must fix things in the home to get it market ready. They simply do not engage in foreclosure to make money, and many banks, including Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo, and other large banks will do just about anything right now to NOT own the home. Where they may have begun foreclosure proceedings in 2005 or 2006, at the heighth of the real estate market, if a person got behind a month or so, they will now delay proceedings even when a person remains behind 4 to 5 months on a home. Second, the fact that the foreclosure occurred is not always a bank's fault. The original thread paints a picture of borrowers victimized by big banking, the "system" in general, and shoddy loans. Some of this is true....and some of it is that people failed to abide by the terms and conditions of their home.

My point is not that banks are "not" responsible, but rather, people are not just victims of a system. There are many, many citizens that merely failed to abide by the terms of their loan.

Now....let's examine "why" they failed to abide by the terms and consitions of their loan. First, the economy turned south around 2007, leading to many people losing their jobs. This, in turn, led to mass foreclosures because people could not pay for their mortgage. Much of this real estate meltdown occurred when builders and developers, private companies and citizens mind you, and not the government, overbuilt. They overdeveloped. They built more homes than people needed. Why did they do this? Because there had been a surge in easier-to-obtain home loans, when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac opened up credit programs and mortgage programs, as well as a surge in the number of builders and developers in the market, a market where it was easy to sell a home.

What we ended up with were pockets of real estate markets which began to overbuild, and when overbuiding occurred, homes for resale stopped, as everyone began buying a cheap, new home, with more space, more upgrades, and at a cheaper price than a resale. This stagnated the resale market, and eventually, it caught up the the new construction market. This stagnated the entire market and people could not sell homes.

So, we ask, why did the large, federally backed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac open open new programs and make it easier to buy a home, even when you had bad credit, a history of non-payment of bills, and allow people who never should have owned a home to buy?

Andrew Coumo. Now, set aside political issues because I am not advocating for or against a political party here; rather, I am stating facts. He was the youngest Director of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) in the history of the United States, and served under President Clinton. Coumo began placing mass pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to grant loans to what were called "subprime" borrowers with subprime loans. These loans were many times adjustable rate mortgage, which gave initial low rates, but jumped up several years later. Not only were credit score requirements relaxed, but under his pressure, the federal government opened many adjustable rate mortgages to allow marginal applicants to buy a home.

This becomes a cause/effect question. Did Coumo's blatant stupidity in creating ridiculous adjustable rate loans, and then giving those horrendous loans to citizens who had a history of not paying bills create the problem, or was it just a very foolish, but well-intentioned, agenda to get the non-rich into the home-ownership club? Or conversely, was Coumo's agenda a good idea that was coincidentally smashed due to the souring 2007 and later economic climate?

Now that you have a very basic, very abbreviated history of this, do the analysis. We have several indisputable facts:

1. Government intervention created subprime loans and gave these subprime loans to subprime borrowers.
2. Many people who had a poor credit history obtained loans which actually increased payments years later.
3. The private sector overbuilt, which led to a stagnation of the real estate market.
4. The stagnation of the market led to people losing jobs at the same time many of their home payments rose.
5. Banks foreclosed on their homes, which led to larger bank losses, which in turn, led to a meltdown.

It is easy to create a conspiracy theory and say the "banks" created this mess. It is also easy to blame the government due to its foolish intervention into the private home lending market. It is also easy to blame the "lazy" borrower who took out a loan and failed to pay.

The problem with the conrpiracy theory, in my personal opinion, is that there are several factors at play here which the government and the banks did not control. They do not control the number of builders or developers overbuilding. Remember, there are large pockets of the U.S. market which did not get hit with this real estate fiasco, and those areas are the specific areas where building and development has remained constant.

My personal opinion as to what caused the meltdown? GREED. Builders and developers saw an easy opportunity to make easy, quick money selling cheap homes quickly. Banks saw dollar signs by being able to open up and sell/creaste more loans for citizens, which previously they had not been able to. The government agenda was to get people into homes which previously could not, and in turn, get political votes from all the new homeowners who could now get a loan.

In the end, a conspiracy theory looks great on paper, and may have even been the case, but seems unlikely due to the many, separate factors which went into the meltdown.

Respectfully,

Kyre

reply to post by wutone

You've got that right. I went back to school and got a degree in electrical engineering because I couldn't find a job making more than $10 an hour and was sinking in debt. This is after raising a family and going through a divorce and remarrying etc, to put things in perspective. I graduated in '07 and now make more money than I ever thought I would, but am still living paycheck to paycheck because of the mountains of debt I had to incur to get to this point. I sometimes think I'd have been better off just to drift through life with no worries. The stress I've been through and am still experiencing has to be taking a toll on me.

Originally posted by aew14
reply to post by dbloch7986

 

Is this serious? A conspiracy?

Its funny, the more I am here the more I realize that all the paranoid are here at ATS and believe that there is a conspiracy for everything.

You folks do realize that the bank actually loses money when a home is f/c on, right?

Of course you guys dont....to the masses here it seems that there is an underground network who controls everything and also the banks. In addition, they are looking to take down the people by FORCING them to buy homes that they really dont want.

I dont mean to be rude...but guys, put down the crack pipes

Probably not the best strategy to winning friends and influencing enemies.

I know you previously worked for a bank, so you imagine because of that you know something about banking.

Probably about as much as low to mid level bank employee needs to know to function in that capacity for a bank.

Yet it's important to understand there are banks, and there are banks.

The Bank of England, Rothschild Banking, Chase, JP Morgan, Bank of America, Citi Group would fall into the and then there are banks categrory.

With the financial clout and ability to finance or bankrupt nations, move entire markets, even decide the outcome of wars banks.

No, the people who run these banks, aren't actually going to be stopping by your cubicle to clue you in with what is really going on when you work for them.

Instead they are going to train you to be sympathetic to the bank and enforce the banks policies.

Armed with a little incidental information you are now confused into thinking you know a whole lot of something.

There has in reality been a banking conspiracy going on for several hundred years, that people started talking about and investigating long before ATS every sprang on the scene. In fact it dates back to the earliest days of our own republic.

In fact people like President Andrew Jackson were actively fighting the banking conspiracy and talking about it publicly hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

The Banking Conspiracy in the United States starts with the First United States Bank chartered in 1781.

I detail that it my popular thread...

Tax Day April 15, 2010 the London Bankers CelebrateCelebration of the Anniversary of Lincoln's Death.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In this thread I chronicle the conspiracies behind the 1st, and 2nd United States Banks and then the Federal Reserve and display how your tax dollars are still going to Europe to pay off Revolutionary War Debts!

The mortgage conspiracy just happens to be the latest in a long line of banking conspiracies over hundreds of years.

You can run around attempting to insult people on ATS or you can actually avail yourself of the incredible wealth of information there is to learn on ATS.

Not all conspiracies are real but...

Here is a list of 33 Conspiracies that really happened and were proven. Many of them were life altering events.

www.newworldorderreport.com...

ATS is probably not the best site to hang out on if you like living in denial.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


So... if we declared war on the banks... and then spared their lives... everything they have would be subject to our mercy. I have absolutely nothing against this idea. Really, the Army and Marines should be fighting the bankers instead of Afghanistan. Of course, this is a dangerous idea... so it makes me wonder whether the bankers have really done a good risk assessment. Let's see what the elections bring. Not too hopeful, but the tide seems to be shifting a bit.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
To all of you that are against the "evil bankers"...I have a simple solution for you...don't do business with them.

Don't take out loans, don't have checkings/savings accounts, don't use credit cards, don't buy any stocks...and most of all DON'T USE ANY MONEY.

That's right...don't use money...since you all think the evil banks create this money out of thin air. If you are doing any of the above...you are a huge hypocrite.

I'm sorry, you really should read the thread before commenting. You know full well this is impossible if one wants to have any semblance of a normal life. You might as well call an environmentalist a hypocrite for living in a home and driving a car knowing full well that the way society is today demands both those things.

This thread is not so much about avoiding involvement with banking as it is the amount of control they have over us. Then again you would know that had you read more than the thread title.

I'm guessing most of you...which is why you think the banks are evil...because you own them money.

By that logic I can say, I'm guessing you agree with us because you posted in this thread.

reply to post by JR MacBeth


Thanks.

Yes money is manufactured out of thin air. The funny part is when the link betwen the dollar and gold was severed, essentially the value of currency was now subject to the whims of these bankers. How awesome is that? These people are brilliant.

I am looking forward to a lively debate as well, and i am hoping for a few changed opinion.

Originally posted by aew14
reply to post by dbloch7986

 

Is this serious? A conspiracy?

Yes.

Its funny, the more I am here the more I realize that all the paranoid are here at ATS and believe that there is a conspiracy for everything.

This is a conspiracy website.

You folks do realize that the bank actually loses money when a home is f/c on, right?

Of course you guys dont....to the masses here it seems that there is an underground network who controls everything and also the banks. In addition, they are looking to take down the people by FORCING them to buy homes that they really dont want.

No. There is no underground network. They are very above ground. You obviously did not read the thread as shown by your statements. You are off topic.

I dont mean to be rude...but guys, put down the crack pipes

I don't meant to be rude but put on your glasses and read the thread. Also, I dont use drugs.

reply to post by TXRabbit


We don't save money because its damn near impossible to with the cost of things. Almost everyone in the US is living paycheck to paycheck. Americans like to have fun, which is why we are a consumer oriented society.

Thanks.

reply to post by dbloch7986

This is a very interesting account of what was going on in the early years of the FDR presidency, and what led him to take the U.S. off of the gold standard is included. JPMorgan and others absolutely did not want FDR getting the country off of the gold standard because the controlled credit, and kept the common American poor and jobless.

www.veteranstoday.com...

It is interesting if you think about it, that there is this push to get back to currency backed by gold. Who owns the gold? We need a NEW currency, maybe a whole NEW way of thinking?

www.realitysandwich.com...

(Sorry to lay so much reading material on you)


Note: The Veterans Today article was submitted by another member this morning in a thread. I will try to find and link his/her thread.

reply to post by rebeldog


I agree with you 100%.

This conspiracy is massive and you can see from this thread that some people suffer from Stockholm's Syndrome.

reply to post by Ashaman Kyre


Actually, I think the banks had quite a lot to do with pressuring Congress to pass laws forcing them (the banks) to loan to a lot of people they ordinarily would not or could not loan to. Banks were issuing loans to people without validating income. In a whole lot of cases, banks made loans to people they absolutely and positively knew could not pay for the home they got the loan for.

The banks still get their money - but instead of getting it from the person who took the loan for the house, they get it from the federal government via the FDIC taking smaller failed banks into receivership and handing them off to the larger banks. The too big to fails are only getting bigger in this process. When you start looking at costs of acquisitions for clients - this process makes a whole lot of sense to the big banks. They are able to pick up large swaths, sometimes entire communities, with each of these failures far faster and for a fraction of what it would take them through any other method.

Add that the new financial regulation and the (lies) talking about getting tough on banks... so banks can get tougher on all of their customers. Increasing the threshold for interest bearing accounts, increasing ATM card transaction feeds, check writing fees, etc, such that even those who have perfect credit will be paying more to help the banks recover the fees lost to delinquent accounts.

Individual people and families are losing the most and are getting hit from every direction. We have a habit of looking at the way things are now. We know how they got to this point. But, we need to seriously start considering how things are going to look five or ten years down the road. That which cannot continue forever eventually stops. And then what? At least two radically different possibilities. Of course, there is the possibility that all of this can go on forever... wouldn't bet on it though.

Originally posted by Klaatumagnum
reply to post by dbloch7986

 

In addition, with this MERS debacle where the "paperwork" behind the mortgages has disappeared into cyberspace to facilitate the bundling of mortgages into derrivatives, so that Wall St. can make huge money. You can pay your mortgage through to fruition of the loan, but will you get a clean title to the property at the end of the loan? Hardly unlikely IMHO. They have no idea where the original document is.

This just shows how intricate and crazy this whole thing gets. Mortgages have become so convoluted.

The whole mechanism of derivatives was used as a tool to crash the economy and make an already tough life become impossible for most of us. It all feeds back into making us more reliant on the state and taking away any idea of ownership.

Thanks.

reply to post by Ashaman Kyre

I am a real estate attorney in South Carolina, and have conducted thousands of real estate transactions for citizens just like you. While I do not defend the actions of the federal and even state governments in creating a huge real estate nightmare, I do believe that there is much, much more to the "how" and "why" the mortgage crisis arose.

First, I would like to point out that the government has acted in a grossly negligent manner over the past several years, and spanning several administrations, both Republican and Democrat. Their actions have assisted in creating the current economic meltdown without question. While I personally believe the government may have even intentionally created issues, and even that there may be a banking conspiracy, the original post here was an over-simplification of the problem, and not due just to governmental negligence or stupid laws.

As an attorney I can appreciate why you would frown upon over simplification. Yet, the truth is that most people do not understand the logistics and vehicles used in many of these transactions and over simplifying it to it's base rudiments is often the best way to help people begin to grasp something that was deliberately made to be as complex and confusing as possible in the first place.

So I see that over simplification as a good thing in this case, as it is helping people to better understand the rudiments and foundation of the system.

Now what you are basically hinting at is personal responsibility or a lack of personal responsibility.

I have one hyphanated word for you...Wal-Mart!

If you think people are suddenly going to accept personal responsibility they aren't for one simple reason.

Individuals have been painstakenly trained by the system to believe that as an individual they have no bearing or impact on the larger world around them. Government does, corporations do, lawyers do, the average person does not.

Yes, you can find a whole host of really, truly retarded self defeating harmful things that the average person does every day that has contributed to the financial melt down.

However no offense to anyone that stupidity was anticipated and factored into the conspiracy itself, in fact it was heavily relied on.

From a numbers standpoint it is easier to tackle the clever pretadors than the stupid masses. Simply because there are a lot fewer clever pretadors.

What makes it harder dealing with the clever pretadors is in most circumstances they can in fact convince the stupid masses that they are not pretadors, and to in effect push it all back down hill on them.

So getting the stupid masses to actually understand the root logistics the vehicles becomes key in stopping that push down hill.

When that push down hill is not stopped then the scapegoats are culled from the stupid masses, the small time fraudster, the desperate family man, the guy that never learned to balance a check book or read a contract becomes the scapegoat, The real pretadors get off.

They don't start 1st graders off with Algebra, and when it comes to understanding how the world is really run, even most attorneys I know are at about a kindergarden level.

The original post focused on asking why the banks own so much property, and did not delve much further. The reason banks own property is foreclosure. Banks do not go out and purchase property as speculative real estate developers or owner to make money; rather, they give loans to people who did not pay, or became unable to pay, which led to a foreclosure. When a bank forcloses on a home, there are several things which must be addressed. First, a bank loses money on foreclosing on the property. They must hire an attorney to foreclose, hire and pay a real estate agent to market and sell the property, and must fix things in the home to get it market ready. They simply do not engage in foreclosure to make money, and many banks, including Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo, and other large banks will do just about anything right now to NOT own the home. Where they may have begun foreclosure proceedings in 2005 or 2006, at the heighth of the real estate market, if a person got behind a month or so, they will now delay proceedings even when a person remains behind 4 to 5 months on a home. Second, the fact that the foreclosure occurred is not always a bank's fault. The original thread paints a picture of borrowers victimized by big banking, the "system" in general, and shoddy loans. Some of this is true....and some of it is that people failed to abide by the terms and conditions of their home.

Once again no the banks don't lose money on foreclosures. In fact it's in the banks advantage if you default, between insurances, tax credits and other hidden profit centers, nothing makes a banker happier than when you can't pay.

Yet understanding what the banks actually are is critical if you really want to understand why yes, they have been in fact using borrowers to acquire real property for them.

Money has no value, it is a de facto fiat instrument of debt that is attached to absolutely nothing of real value, it's only value is percieved. What has value is precious metal, gems, land, and natural resources and human beings.

These are the real instruments of wealth that are traded as instruments of wealth by the 2,500 odd people who are running the world.

Currency is script for use at the company store, they are the company.

It is simply a requisition slip for some resources, goods or services that they horde and distribute.

You can't lose money because it has no value.

The entire wealth of the Banking industry begins with the Vatican. From there it extends to the Royals, the Bank of London and the Papal Rothschild Family.

They wish to gain title and keep title to as much of the world's real property, real resources, and items of real value and to manage the human population through debt.

Unmasking the ownership of the largest banks and tracing their charters through the tangled corporate spider web will always take you back to one place. Rome.

What you are witnessing right now is like a rubber gum band, they are simply pulling everything back to them, after putting it out there for a prolonged period to accomplish a desired goal.

The next goal they desire to acheive requires them restablishing possession of all these things.

A bit over simplified, but at the dark heart of the conspiracy this is in fact what is happening.

My point is not that banks are "not" responsible, but rather, people are not just victims of a system. There are many, many citizens that merely failed to abide by the terms of their loan.

Many of these loans were designed not to be fulfilled by the borrower.

You can cry about forged documents and inflated income, but if you really want to believe someone working at McDonald's flipping hamburgers makes 92,000.00 a year because his pay stub and 3 months bank statements say so, you really are well, not being honest with yourself. If you really want to believe even if they were making 92,000.00 flipping burgers, and that a interest only loan on a 750,000.00 dollar property was the right choice for them, then well, you really are not being honest with yourself.

In short it would have been impossible for the people inventing these creative financial products to believe that the people they had signing up for them were possibly going to make good on them.

This was a scheme, where because the little guy involved often did something stupid, fraudelent or criminal, the big guy is now off the hook for doing the same.

Now....let's examine "why" they failed to abide by the terms and consitions of their loan. First, the economy turned south around 2007, leading to many people losing their jobs. This, in turn, led to mass foreclosures because people could not pay for their mortgage. Much of this real estate meltdown occurred when builders and developers, private companies and citizens mind you, and not the government, overbuilt. They overdeveloped. They built more homes than people needed. Why did they do this? Because there had been a surge in easier-to-obtain home loans, when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac opened up credit programs and mortgage programs, as well as a surge in the number of builders and developers in the market, a market where it was easy to sell a home.

Nothing like plausible deniability. It warms my larcenous heart to no end!

Yet the truth is that the economic collapse was inevitible and a huge part of what you are describing was orchestrated to forestall that collapse as long as possible.

Because so many manufacturing jobs and service jobs had been transferred off shore, and the national debt had risen so high, the only way to keep the economy going was by injecting huge sums of credit into it, so people flush with cash would spread it around in the services and retail sector.

The Economy was done for in 1986 according to Lyndonne H Larouche Jr. who theorized in that year that the last time any of the nations could have paid back their debts was that year, by drastically altering the remainder of the Bretton Woods Agreement.

From that point on, if every mineral, every drop of oil, every tree on the planet was cut down and sold, every gem dug up and cut and polished, ever last ounce of gold and silver and copper squeezed out of the earth and sold by people working for free, it still would not produce enough revenue to pay off the combined national debt.

Since that point in time, it really has been just the major governments of the world, waiting for the most opportune time to all go bankrupt, and start a huge depression and try to restructure the debt.

What the big banks have done in this scheme is in part helped them plan ahead for that inevitibility but to also pull back all the real hard assetts the land the homes, everything of value, as leverage over the governments to make sure that the restructuring actually takes place, with them still protected and coming out on top.

In other words the banks fear that the governments will move to strip them of their assetts as a means to default on all the debt, so the banks want as much titled into their name before hand for protection against that.

What we ended up with were pockets of real estate markets which began to overbuild, and when overbuiding occurred, homes for resale stopped, as everyone began buying a cheap, new home, with more space, more upgrades, and at a cheaper price than a resale. This stagnated the resale market, and eventually, it caught up the the new construction market. This stagnated the entire market and people could not sell homes.

No the credit tap was just finally turned off.

People would still be buying and flipping and making money out of thin air today if the banks were still willing to extend the credit.

They no longer need to, they have the governments and the the people where they want them now.

The bailouts were a looting of the treasury to make a substantial payment on our national and international debt.

All orchestrated in secrecy by the Federal Reserve which can not be audited all we have is the systems word that what happened with the money really happened with the money.

The fact that they won't allow an audit of their books ought to tell you a lawyer that what happened with the money is not what happened with the money.

So, we ask, why did the large, federally backed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac open open new programs and make it easier to buy a home, even when you had bad credit, a history of non-payment of bills, and allow people who never should have owned a home to buy?

To keep the economy churning along by infusing large chunks of cash constantly into it.

To orchestrate getting all those properties titled into the banks name as collateral against the nations own debt.

This my friend is far, far bigger than you could possibly imagine.

Please keep in mind there is a real reason the South lost the war!

Andrew Coumo. Now, set aside political issues because I am not advocating for or against a political party here; rather, I am stating facts. He was the youngest Director of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) in the history of the United States, and served under President Clinton. Coumo began placing mass pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to grant loans to what were called "subprime" borrowers with subprime loans. These loans were many times adjustable rate mortgage, which gave initial low rates, but jumped up several years later. Not only were credit score requirements relaxed, but under his pressure, the federal government opened many adjustable rate mortgages to allow marginal applicants to buy a home.

Once again any intelligent person can see that these loans would not possibly work as designed, therefore it is logical to assume that the end product, default, was what was actually designed.

So the question a smart attorney would ask, is what would be the motive to have so many people acquire homes that normally couldn't and then have them default requiring huge insurance payments be made to the banks, and a huge cash bailout for the banks.

When you look back to the true state of the world economy in 1986 as LaRouche declared in 1986, then what you see is a scheme to get money to the banks from the tax payers to pay off that debt.

A debt that has had the United States in Bankruptcy and recievership since the 1930's with select members of Congress as the Trustees.

This becomes a cause/effect question. Did Coumo's blatant stupidity in creating ridiculous adjustable rate loans, and then giving those horrendous loans to citizens who had a history of not paying bills create the problem, or was it just a very foolish, but well-intentioned, agenda to get the non-rich into the home-ownership club? Or conversely, was Coumo's agenda a good idea that was coincidentally smashed due to the souring 2007 and later economic climate?

None of the above, once you understand what was really going on and what really is going on.

It was a sheer stroke of genious of creative financing to rob Peter the tax payer, to pay Paul the banker.

The truth is we still haven't even paid off our revolutionary war debts and aren't even a sovereign nation yet 200 plus years later as a result.

The banking conspiracy is so, so, so much bigger than you imagine.

Now that you have a very basic, very abbreviated history of this, do the analysis. We have several indisputable facts:

I already understood all this, I sure would like to bring you up to speed though.

I understand you are an officer of the court, a member of the bar, a functionary of the corporate government, who has sworn oaths, some of which you don't even know what they really mean and just who you have sworn too.

Yet you are still a human being, and in this with the rest of us, and a dupe and a pawn very much like we all are.

This is so much bigger than you think and its going to get so much badder than you imagine.

You are being run in circles.

Most people are.

A honest review of the banking industry in the United States and the minutes of International Monetary Fund conferences since the early 1980's will give you solid clues about many of the things you are missing.

The conquest of the world is about to be completed.

Now is really not the time to be wrong, and an expert on being wrong.

Throw all the dogmas out the window, hit the books, go back to the drawing board, get the whole context so you can put it in proper context and you will be close to the truth.

Right now you aren't even warm!

reply to post by carlitomoore


Its more than fraud. This is about control. Its far beyond any question of legality and the governmemt, including then courts, will not stop it.

I hope this thread gets lots of attention too. This conspiracy is very important and it means a lot to me that people are getting educated on it.

Thanks.

reply to post by RelentlessLurker


Thanks.

The important thing to me is that people realize they are not at fault. The idea behind all of this is that the despotic powers that be are trying to make us all feel helpless and ineffectual so they can stay in power. If we can rid people of this feeling or even make them understand why they feel that way we are one step closer to taking the power back.

reply to post by Ashaman Kyre


I very much appreciate you bringing your knowledge to the thread. I am glad you share all that. I just see it as a convoluted mechanism to bring about an ultimate goal, which is why I simplified it. As an attorney, especially a real estate attorney, I am sure it is in your nature to be detail oriented and I appreciate your addition to the discussion, thanks.

Its also interesting to see how many different kinds of people visit ATS.