reply to post by Ashaman Kyre
I am a real estate attorney in South Carolina, and have conducted thousands of real estate transactions for citizens just like you. While I do not
defend the actions of the federal and even state governments in creating a huge real estate nightmare, I do believe that there is much, much more to
the "how" and "why" the mortgage crisis arose.
First, I would like to point out that the government has acted in a grossly negligent manner over the past several years, and spanning several
administrations, both Republican and Democrat. Their actions have assisted in creating the current economic meltdown without question. While I
personally believe the government may have even intentionally created issues, and even that there may be a banking conspiracy, the original post here
was an over-simplification of the problem, and not due just to governmental negligence or stupid laws.
As an attorney I can appreciate why you would frown upon over simplification. Yet, the truth is that most people do not understand the logistics and
vehicles used in many of these transactions and over simplifying it to it's base rudiments is often the best way to help people begin to grasp
something that was deliberately made to be as complex and confusing as possible in the first place.
So I see that over simplification as a good thing in this case, as it is helping people to better understand the rudiments and foundation of the
Now what you are basically hinting at is personal responsibility or a lack of personal responsibility.
I have one hyphanated word for you...Wal-Mart!
If you think people are suddenly going to accept personal responsibility they aren't for one simple reason.
Individuals have been painstakenly trained by the system to believe that as an individual they have no bearing or impact on the larger world around
them. Government does, corporations do, lawyers do, the average person does not.
Yes, you can find a whole host of really, truly retarded self defeating harmful things that the average person does every day that has contributed to
the financial melt down.
However no offense to anyone that stupidity was anticipated and factored into the conspiracy itself, in fact it was heavily relied on.
From a numbers standpoint it is easier to tackle the clever pretadors than the stupid masses. Simply because there are a lot fewer clever pretadors.
What makes it harder dealing with the clever pretadors is in most circumstances they can in fact convince the stupid masses that they are not
pretadors, and to in effect push it all back down hill on them.
So getting the stupid masses to actually understand the root logistics the vehicles becomes key in stopping that push down hill.
When that push down hill is not stopped then the scapegoats are culled from the stupid masses, the small time fraudster, the desperate family man, the
guy that never learned to balance a check book or read a contract becomes the scapegoat, The real pretadors get off.
They don't start 1st graders off with Algebra, and when it comes to understanding how the world is really run, even most attorneys I know are at
about a kindergarden level.
The original post focused on asking why the banks own so much property, and did not delve much further. The reason banks own property is foreclosure.
Banks do not go out and purchase property as speculative real estate developers or owner to make money; rather, they give loans to people who did not
pay, or became unable to pay, which led to a foreclosure. When a bank forcloses on a home, there are several things which must be addressed. First, a
bank loses money on foreclosing on the property. They must hire an attorney to foreclose, hire and pay a real estate agent to market and sell the
property, and must fix things in the home to get it market ready. They simply do not engage in foreclosure to make money, and many banks, including
Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo, and other large banks will do just about anything right now to NOT own the home. Where they may have begun
foreclosure proceedings in 2005 or 2006, at the heighth of the real estate market, if a person got behind a month or so, they will now delay
proceedings even when a person remains behind 4 to 5 months on a home. Second, the fact that the foreclosure occurred is not always a bank's fault.
The original thread paints a picture of borrowers victimized by big banking, the "system" in general, and shoddy loans. Some of this is true....and
some of it is that people failed to abide by the terms and conditions of their home.
Once again no the banks don't lose money on foreclosures. In fact it's in the banks advantage if you default, between insurances, tax credits and
other hidden profit centers, nothing makes a banker happier than when you can't pay.
Yet understanding what the banks actually are is critical if you really want to understand why yes, they have been in fact using borrowers to acquire
real property for them.
Money has no value, it is a de facto fiat instrument of debt that is attached to absolutely nothing of real value, it's only value is percieved. What
has value is precious metal, gems, land, and natural resources and human beings.
These are the real instruments of wealth that are traded as instruments of wealth by the 2,500 odd people who are running the world.
Currency is script for use at the company store, they are the company.
It is simply a requisition slip for some resources, goods or services that they horde and distribute.
You can't lose money because it has no value.
The entire wealth of the Banking industry begins with the Vatican. From there it extends to the Royals, the Bank of London and the Papal Rothschild
They wish to gain title and keep title to as much of the world's real property, real resources, and items of real value and to manage the human
population through debt.
Unmasking the ownership of the largest banks and tracing their charters through the tangled corporate spider web will always take you back to one
What you are witnessing right now is like a rubber gum band, they are simply pulling everything back to them, after putting it out there for a
prolonged period to accomplish a desired goal.
The next goal they desire to acheive requires them restablishing possession of all these things.
A bit over simplified, but at the dark heart of the conspiracy this is in fact what is happening.
My point is not that banks are "not" responsible, but rather, people are not just victims of a system. There are many, many citizens that merely
failed to abide by the terms of their loan.
Many of these loans were designed not to be fulfilled by the borrower.
You can cry about forged documents and inflated income, but if you really want to believe someone working at McDonald's flipping hamburgers makes
92,000.00 a year because his pay stub and 3 months bank statements say so, you really are well, not being honest with yourself. If you really want to
believe even if they were making 92,000.00 flipping burgers, and that a interest only loan on a 750,000.00 dollar property was the right choice for
them, then well, you really are not being honest with yourself.
In short it would have been impossible for the people inventing these creative financial products to believe that the people they had signing up for
them were possibly going to make good on them.
This was a scheme, where because the little guy involved often did something stupid, fraudelent or criminal, the big guy is now off the hook for doing
Now....let's examine "why" they failed to abide by the terms and consitions of their loan. First, the economy turned south around 2007, leading to
many people losing their jobs. This, in turn, led to mass foreclosures because people could not pay for their mortgage. Much of this real estate
meltdown occurred when builders and developers, private companies and citizens mind you, and not the government, overbuilt. They overdeveloped. They
built more homes than people needed. Why did they do this? Because there had been a surge in easier-to-obtain home loans, when Fannie Mae and Freddie
Mac opened up credit programs and mortgage programs, as well as a surge in the number of builders and developers in the market, a market where it was
easy to sell a home.
Nothing like plausible deniability. It warms my larcenous heart to no end!
Yet the truth is that the economic collapse was inevitible and a huge part of what you are describing was orchestrated to forestall that collapse as
long as possible.
Because so many manufacturing jobs and service jobs had been transferred off shore, and the national debt had risen so high, the only way to keep the
economy going was by injecting huge sums of credit into it, so people flush with cash would spread it around in the services and retail sector.
The Economy was done for in 1986 according to Lyndonne H Larouche Jr. who theorized in that year that the last time any of the nations could have paid
back their debts was that year, by drastically altering the remainder of the Bretton Woods Agreement.
From that point on, if every mineral, every drop of oil, every tree on the planet was cut down and sold, every gem dug up and cut and polished, ever
last ounce of gold and silver and copper squeezed out of the earth and sold by people working for free, it still would not produce enough revenue to
pay off the combined national debt.
Since that point in time, it really has been just the major governments of the world, waiting for the most opportune time to all go bankrupt, and
start a huge depression and try to restructure the debt.
What the big banks have done in this scheme is in part helped them plan ahead for that inevitibility but to also pull back all the real hard assetts
the land the homes, everything of value, as leverage over the governments to make sure that the restructuring actually takes place, with them still
protected and coming out on top.
In other words the banks fear that the governments will move to strip them of their assetts as a means to default on all the debt, so the banks want
as much titled into their name before hand for protection against that.
What we ended up with were pockets of real estate markets which began to overbuild, and when overbuiding occurred, homes for resale stopped, as
everyone began buying a cheap, new home, with more space, more upgrades, and at a cheaper price than a resale. This stagnated the resale market, and
eventually, it caught up the the new construction market. This stagnated the entire market and people could not sell homes.
No the credit tap was just finally turned off.
People would still be buying and flipping and making money out of thin air today if the banks were still willing to extend the credit.
They no longer need to, they have the governments and the the people where they want them now.
The bailouts were a looting of the treasury to make a substantial payment on our national and international debt.
All orchestrated in secrecy by the Federal Reserve which can not be audited all we have is the systems word that what happened with the money really
happened with the money.
The fact that they won't allow an audit of their books ought to tell you a lawyer that what happened with the money is not what happened with the
So, we ask, why did the large, federally backed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac open open new programs and make it easier to buy a home, even when you had
bad credit, a history of non-payment of bills, and allow people who never should have owned a home to buy?
To keep the economy churning along by infusing large chunks of cash constantly into it.
To orchestrate getting all those properties titled into the banks name as collateral against the nations own debt.
This my friend is far, far bigger than you could possibly imagine.
Please keep in mind there is a real reason the South lost the war!
Andrew Coumo. Now, set aside political issues because I am not advocating for or against a political party here; rather, I am stating facts. He was
the youngest Director of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) in the history of the United States, and served under President Clinton. Coumo began
placing mass pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to grant loans to what were called "subprime" borrowers with subprime loans. These loans were
many times adjustable rate mortgage, which gave initial low rates, but jumped up several years later. Not only were credit score requirements relaxed,
but under his pressure, the federal government opened many adjustable rate mortgages to allow marginal applicants to buy a home.
Once again any intelligent person can see that these loans would not possibly work as designed, therefore it is logical to assume that the end
product, default, was what was actually designed.
So the question a smart attorney would ask, is what would be the motive to have so many people acquire homes that normally couldn't and then have
them default requiring huge insurance payments be made to the banks, and a huge cash bailout for the banks.
When you look back to the true state of the world economy in 1986 as LaRouche declared in 1986, then what you see is a scheme to get money to the
banks from the tax payers to pay off that debt.
A debt that has had the United States in Bankruptcy and recievership since the 1930's with select members of Congress as the Trustees.
This becomes a cause/effect question. Did Coumo's blatant stupidity in creating ridiculous adjustable rate loans, and then giving those horrendous
loans to citizens who had a history of not paying bills create the problem, or was it just a very foolish, but well-intentioned, agenda to get the
non-rich into the home-ownership club? Or conversely, was Coumo's agenda a good idea that was coincidentally smashed due to the souring 2007 and
later economic climate?
None of the above, once you understand what was really going on and what really is going on.
It was a sheer stroke of genious of creative financing to rob Peter the tax payer, to pay Paul the banker.
The truth is we still haven't even paid off our revolutionary war debts and aren't even a sovereign nation yet 200 plus years later as a result.
The banking conspiracy is so, so, so much bigger than you imagine.
Now that you have a very basic, very abbreviated history of this, do the analysis. We have several indisputable facts:
I already understood all this, I sure would like to bring you up to speed though.
I understand you are an officer of the court, a member of the bar, a functionary of the corporate government, who has sworn oaths, some of which you
don't even know what they really mean and just who you have sworn too.
Yet you are still a human being, and in this with the rest of us, and a dupe and a pawn very much like we all are.
This is so much bigger than you think and its going to get so much badder than you imagine.
You are being run in circles.
Most people are.
A honest review of the banking industry in the United States and the minutes of International Monetary Fund conferences since the early 1980's will
give you solid clues about many of the things you are missing.
The conquest of the world is about to be completed.
Now is really not the time to be wrong, and an expert on being wrong.
Throw all the dogmas out the window, hit the books, go back to the drawing board, get the whole context so you can put it in proper context and you
will be close to the truth.
Right now you aren't even warm!