15 Y/O Shot In Back After Throwing Rocks At Old Man....Can This Be Justified?

A simple rock killed Goliath.

Bet he wished he had a gun though.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Actually if someone was trying to hit you, yes then shoot them.

I would fully support that.

I fully support him defending himself when kids were throwing rocks at his windows and his car. How does he know if this is some kind of prank or not.

And let me be clear: THIS IS NOT A PRANK. Throwing rocks which can injure him is a prank? This is some form of good clean fun for kids?

This is such a joke...

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Actually if someone was trying to hit you, yes then shoot them.

I would fully support that.

LOL! Well thanks!

I think I will refrain though.

What I want to know is. If 100 years ago I had gone to any farmers house in the U.S. and started throwing rocks at the house.

I would have expected to get shot at.

How is this situation any different except for the fact that this kid failed to understand the PC brigade can not always save your ass.

Originally posted by getreadyalready


By your logic, if I start shooting them, by the end of the week, there won't be much traffic left to endanger or annoy me. I would be justified. They are commiting crimes that endanger my life, my gun and my training are legal. It is self defense. They obviously deserve it for their lack of respect for their fellow man.

Bad analogy

These wreckless drivers are not purposefully doing this to hurt annoy or endanger you.These young men were towards the old man.

If I followed the advice in this thread I would be a one man traffic destroying monster! My coworkers (the ones that survive) will love me for it. Our commute will be cut in half!

But I`m with ya as far as idiots behind a wheel.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by gps777

 

How do you know getready wasn't tormented by a grumpy old man when he was a child?

I did have a good laugh at that thanx.

Though I was tormented by my Dad,it must have had an opposite effect on me.

I do not condone picking on people. I might needle friends to get a rise, but picking on strangers just for fun is a no go in my book.

Good for you pal,thing is from a very early age my mother worked with the elderly in an old peoples hospital and from that came to understand that later on in life people often regress into a second childhood sometimes,Its sad to watch people die alone and while losing their independence and faculties.Some people take advantage of this.

Maybe my choice of words was less than wise. Maybe I should have said, "try not to misrepresent what people say." Completely different, but maybe more appropriate.

I`m ok with it either way,because I`m not misrepresenting people,I have either quoted directly what people have said or mirrored their biased opinion.

I`m pretty sure you and I know where we each stand on this and I`m not in disagreement with you.I`m only adding to the discussion of what I believe could be possibly overlooked in situations as this.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher

 

There were three young men pitted - bullying - preying upon one old man. They were throwing rocks at him and his property. If one of those rocks had hit him in the head it could have killed him. Also, as you age, falls become more of a serious issue. If he had tripped and fallen he could have broken some bones.

Now, my husband says, it would have been smarted to just shoot the three of them in their legs and put them in wheel chairs for the rest of their lives so they could never bully anyone else.

A bully, a predator is just that - a predator. Now, I am sure if these three young men had done this to your wife, your daughter, your son, your father, mother, any of your loved ones you possibly would feel differently.

I take it back, killing the 15 year old was harsh, but maybe the old guy was acting out of fear and didn't think straight. There were three of them against one of him and they were young and strong and he was old and frail.

I stated what I did out of emotional anger. I recently experienced a homeless man I use to serve dinner to being beaten to death in his sleep with a baseball bat and my first post was out of anger and hurt. I went to see him shortly before he died in the hospital and to see what another human for no reason did to him made me rethink "all life is precious" frap I have stated before.

My friend, the homeless man, was a ex Vietnam Vet, gentle, kind and intellegent. He did not deserve to die by being beaten to death. The kind of person(s) that did this to him are made of the very exact same fabric as the young men that preyed upon that old guy.

They are predators.

Question: Have you ever actually seen a person that has been stoned or beaten in person? I have.

What kind of person(s) throws rocks at old people and destorys other people's stuff they worked hard for? Will their actions escalate as time goes on? Maybe next time, they will take baseball bats and beat some old homeless person to death.

I hate bullies and predators. I distain any person that would use their strength, youth, power, money or any advantage to abuse another fellow human.

Being a predator, preying upon the weak is a mindset and should not be tolerated OR EXCUSED.

And yes, they do that in the Middle East. People are stoned to death all the time.

I once had a small rock hit me in the head and that caused a lot of bleeding and pain and that was an accident. So I know first hand what it's like to have a rock injury.

A predator, someone that would willingfully hurt someone weaker than them is a bully and not likely to change, only get worse the longer they are allowed to get away with it.

Our laws, are a joke - in and out of jail within days back on the street to prey upon someone else that is weaker.

A bully predator (not senile, just like that word) is just that a mean, vicious excuse of a human being.

That one old man did not go out and seek these three young men out. They came onto his property, ruined his property he worked hard for (most old people are on a limited / fixed income) and threatened his life.

If you and two of your friends came onto my property I would first call the police. I am lucky right now where I live they would be there within under two minutes.

But, if I lived in a place where the police were not as diligent or so far out it would take them 45 minutes to get to me, I would have shot them.

Young predators beware, this new generation of old farts is not going to take your preying upon us. We are buying guns and going to gun ranges to learn how to shoot. We are taking self defense classes. And, we will not go down without a fight.

I still maintain, good ridence, one less predator/bully in the world.

If I were on the jury I would acquit the old guy. He did not go out and look for trouble, they came to him and looked for trouble and found it.

Would you say this experience has overall made you more pro-vengeance in cases such as this?

reply to post by hotbakedtater

It's bad where I go and I live in a suburb of one of the largest midwest cities in the US. But you are right, I drive the car in and have a special parking spot real close by. Some of the street people know me now and watch out for me.

You are right, be safe, the inner cities are very very dangerous. I do not own a gun, but am learning to shoot - have been to a shooting range about six times now and was told I am getting pretty good.

I won't buy or have a gun in my house unless things get really really dicey.

I am also signed up for a self defense class and can't wait to start. It will be good exercise and another skill.

There are getting to be so many homeless people now. Many people now without a home use to hold 9-5 jobs, lived in homes, go to soccer games, own cars..............homelessness has now reached "the middle class" - many of which are children. It is sad. I am seeing the number increase year by year. It use to be only the mentally challenged and lazy now it has become apparent to me that it's now more "normal" people that had one medical issue, or one job being outsourced/insourced..........it could happen to any of us.

And, once you are homeless - you no longer have the luxury of turning on the back porch light and locking your front and back door before going to sleep in a nice soft bed with clean fresh blankets, taking a shower or soak in a nice warm bath in privacy anytime you feel like it. Being homeless, once you fall asleep - anyone could come up and either rape or kill you.

reply to post by 19872012


In all honesty, I really don't know. I would like to think that I would leave vengeance up to karma because to commit the act of vengeance than, I believe, adds onto your own karma. It continues the cycle.

But, I really don't know.

I feel so bad about my friend, the poor old guy that was beaten to death for no reason other than "sport". One can only hope that those individuals that committed this horrible act will suffer the karmatic consequences.

What goes around comes around. As above so below.

Why can't everyone just play nice?

Cannot see the "fun" in hurting another, completely foreign concept to me.

reply to post by gps777


Starred your post.

I can't understand anyone that purposely goes out to hurt or harass another person for the "fun" of it.

Very very strange and foreign concept to me.

Anyone that derives their jollies from either hurting someone or making another feel threatened boarders along being psychopathic and that is sad.

The psychopath is one of the most fascinating and distressing problems of human experience. For the most part, a psychopath never remains attached to anyone or anything. They live a "predatory" lifestyle. They feel little or no regret, and little or no remorse - except when they are caught. They need relationships, but see people as obstacles to overcome and be eliminated. If not, they see people in terms of how they can be used. They use people for stimulation, to build their self-esteem and they invariably value people in terms of their material value (money, property, etc..).

A psychopath can have high verbal intelligence, but they typically lack "emotional intelligence". They can be expert in manipulating others by playing to their emotions. There is a shallow quality to the emotional aspect of their stories (i.e., how they felt, why they felt that way, or how others may have felt and why). The lack of emotional intelligence is the first good sign you may be dealing with a psychopath. A history of criminal behavior in which they do not seem to learn from their experience, but merely think about ways to not get caught is the second best sign.

Source: www.oregoncounseling.org...

The reason we have so much sadness and injustices in the world today is that our planet is being run by people with psychopathic personalities (IMO).

A really good (expensive but really good) book to understand the mindset of these type of people is “POLITICAL PONEROLOGY by Andrew M. Lobaczewski.

reply to post by gps777


Damn, you just gave me another idea for the defense.

Old man was regressed into childhood, thus reacted like the children my city feels so sorry for and is excusing the childish behavior with rewards from shamefully behaving nationally known public figures like Pitino, and locally known media whores, like Christopher 2X.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by pikypiky

 

You call Portland. , Shivley, Smoketown pigs to respond to rock throwing.

Let me know how long your wait was, or how quickly they laughed and hung up on you.

As previously stated, the bulk of the police were at a murder scene a few blocks up the road.

Tater, I can't believe you said this. Speaking of the 21st century, this sounds like 1970.
Most of our cities are too busy paying "city managers" & "PR people" ridiculous salaries and funding (in many cases, raising taxes) porky projects like stadiums for privately owned ball teams (or in my city's case- "if we build it, they will come". They didn't.) that enrich their friends instead of funding essential services like law enforcement & firemen. Those departments are generally understaffed & underpaid. They are spread too thin.

It should be obvious by now, almost everywhere, that law enforcement can do little more than clean up afterwards. In addition, the system fails. Not until carjackers, rapists & home invaders being taken out by their targeted victims as a matter of course will we see a genuine reduction in crime. Once they expect that instead of that they will get away with it, things will change.
Was this incident over the top? We can't possibly judge. If the guy had been young & in good health, beating the crap out of this kid would have been the maximum that was appropriate. Here, that wasn't necessarily an option.

Here's another similar situation from the Chicago Tribune. (link below) This guy shot a neighbor because the neighbor's dog sprinkled on his yard. Sounds like he had his priorities straight to me because it was the neighbor's fault, not the dog's. Was he justified? Of course not! The shooter was nuts. The point is that people are fed up with being on the wrong end of an Ahole.
People are getting REALLY screwed up. They are becoming inconsiderate slobs who believe they are somehow entitled to do whatever they want; devoid of responsibility for their actions. It just keeps getting worse.
A police state isn't the answer. Political correctness isn't the answer. Gun control isn't the answer. "Tolerance" isn't the answer. And socialism/ communism isn't the answer.

"Do unto others...", knowing right from wrong and taking responsibility for our actions (and our kids' actions!) IS the answer. Whatever happened to that, huh?

www.chicagotribune.com...

Well if you are terrorizing my life and trying to do harm to my well being or of my family, i believe i would have defended myself.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater


My question is this.

Is shooting someone in the back ever justified?

[color=#66FF99]Yes, absolutely. If you are the victim of terrorists who sit outside your house in the dark and then escape into the darkness unidentified so they can come back and terrorize you again, then shoot them in the back so they cannot come back at you. Self defense. You can easily kill somebody with a rock thrown out of the darkness through the window.

Im sure a cop would use having rocks hurled at him as an excuse to blast someone. Rocks would be labeled as a deadly weapon in order to cover the cops ass. Not to say that its OK, of course. Just a different way of seeing it.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

I can't understand anyone that purposely goes out to hurt or harass another person for the "fun" of it.

Very very strange and foreign concept to me.

Thats because your human and not an animal and was raised by humans. We`ve all seen nature programs where in the animal kingdom the aged or frail become targets from a pack of Hienas etc.

Tater

I`m not sure if you have a legal background or even if this would help at all,this is something to consider imo......

It is well known that men don`t like to ask for help,rarely do they go to the doctor etc,

now if this elderly man has experienced any of these types of situations before and called the police for help only to be scoffed at (as in the response was along the lines"come on,we`re busy dealing with serious crime here,they`re just a pack of kids throwing rocks") he would be very reluctent to call them again and in his little world in his little house in his mind hes being terrorized and forced to deal with it.

This is not an attempt to excuse him,but to better understand him,because as far as I can see, this old chap just wanted to live in peace but felt that he needed to deal with the matter in his own hands.

His past is important here imo,To be terrorized all night and not call the police? I`d like to know why.

I hope you do follow this case for us here Tater and let us know the outcome if you can.

I suddenly understand why the gun violence death rate is so high in America. Everyone thinks its A-okay to whip out a gun and shoot someone when they feel like it is "within their right" to do so. No moral boundaries. I'm baffled as to how your "freedoms" have led you to believe that someone throwing rocks at your property is just means for manslaughter. If the child had broken a window and come inside and threatened him, THEN it is self defense. This is not. Look at the story before you condemn this child to death, there was MINOR DAMAGE TO THE MAN'S DOOR AND CAR, this THREE TIME CONVICTED FELON OF AN OLD MAN busted open the door and pelted a 15 year old with a shotgun. That's justice? This whole situation makes me sick to my stomach. You shame those who own guns for their safety -- those who have the right to feel threatened and defend themselves, not those whon seek vindication against vandalism and protection of their property. Guns should not be in the hands of barbarians, and the law recognizes that, which is why this man was NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED TO OWN A GUN. Rocks hitting your door and car is not a physical assault, it is vandalism, no matter what you say it is. Stop making excuses for this brash lunatic. Self-defense means defending yourself, not swinging open your door and blowing people away who are hucking rocks at your car from the sidewalk. Yes, they are brats. Brats are not killed by the penal system, and they certainly don't deserve death by redneck. It's very convenient how the other side of this case literally died and cannot present their case; let's pretend everything this felon says is the truth, and we'll all say that it was self defense because there were rocks and rocks are weapons when used with force against a human being. Problem is, they were never thrown at the man at all -- just his property. You embarass those who are real victims of death threats and react in self defense by pretending that this man is anything but a criminal. If he hates today's children so much, I guess he'll love his new home in the state penitentiary. Not unlike where many of you will end up if you don't change your attitude about gun violence pretty soon... or maybe you'll be the one 6 feet under... Maybe they'll ridicule your mother for her emotionlessness after having her heart ripped out of her chest.

it doesnt matter the age sex location or race. if you throw rocks at me im gonna use whatever force i have at hand to stop it. treat everyone as you want to be treated. if you assault me in anyway i will do whatever it takes to render you immobile.

Originally posted by bismos
it doesnt matter the age sex location or race. if you throw rocks at me im gonna use whatever force i have at hand to stop it. treat everyone as you want to be treated. if you assault me in anyway i will do whatever it takes to render you immobile.

Define assault and then express your "opinion" please. They are not throwing rocks at the man, they are throwing rocks at his door and car. Condoning gun violence out of sheer ignorance -- let's hope your children don't end up going to Columbine High.

Originally posted by Brood
this THREE TIME CONVICTED FELON OF AN OLD MAN

Just for perspective.....

WAVE 3 News did some digging and learned this isn't his first time he's been behind bars. In addition to several traffic violations, he's also faced several marijuana-related charges. Now he's facing a murder charge.


www.wave3.com...

Stop making excuses for this brash lunatic.

Just for perspective.......

They say other teens have stirred up trouble here, which may explain Ashley's rage.

"Protecting his home; I mean he worked hard for his house. He was taking care of his mother and she's 87," Jackson said.

www.wave3.com...

A lunatic that still has a heart enough to look after his elderly mother ?.

This is a man who was at his wits end,not a lunatic,though he acted as such in the end.


From his neighbour.....

Cotton described Ashley as a quiet man.

"Been here about 50 years, don't bother nobody, tends to himself, never had no problems with him," she said.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

If this man was my neighbour I would have gone out and helped him,not shoot them though.