15 Y/O Shot In Back After Throwing Rocks At Old Man....Can This Be Justified?

Originally posted by warequalsmurder
There's an old rule that men follow and it goes like this:
"Never fight an old man. He can't win so he'll just kill you."

Screw with one like these thugs were doing and you'll get the horns eventually.

Thank you...and it is exactly that reason why I see this justified...
Bring relevance back into such sayings and understandings..it is very true, the only thing left a elder has is his dignity, and some young punk trying to take that away from him will be in for a very rude awakening.

You think this old man cares about prison? hell no, and you know what, the neighborhood kids are now reconsidering the easy target elders in their neighborhood also...wondering how many others have guns and will gladly shoot some disrespectful violent kid,,

scared straight. The event is unfortunate, but hopefully the effect will send shivers down every harassing moron's spine out there for years to come.

Originally posted by psyko45
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Come on man!! Youve got to be kidding me. Im not watching that video again. Is this really what was going on with the shooter in this case? If it was ..you have my apologies. If not...Come on man!! I also realize somebodys probably going to say.."David killed Goliath with a pebble"

Elders have brittle bones...sort of why they have all them walkers and such. yes, just a broken bone to youth can be deadly to a elder.

Sorry, but if this was like a 30 year old man getting a stone winged at him or his window, then ya, shoot the air, but doing this to a senior where this is just as bad as a stoning in some 3rd world nation...all I gotta say is...

reply to post by SaturnFX


It is definitely never justified to shoot at anyone over property, no one. Call the police over and over until they are climbing the walls, sure. But you don't use lethal force against a human being. Let alone a child.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I actually got to see Filter the year they came out with that single. They opened for the Meat Puppets...cool show.

Anyway, Im not going to argue small points. My uneducated opinion. Very bad decision on the part of the older guy and I hope to see justice served.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

It is definitely never justified to shoot at anyone over property, no one. Call the police over and over until they are climbing the walls, sure. But no human being. Let alone a child.

Gawd..."The Children"..... Lets hope this strategy works for you when you live on the wrong side of town, when you are old, weak and infirm. Waiting the 3 hrs for the police to show up as your family is threatened, your home and the last bit of your property.

..Ex

Originally posted by psyko45
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I actually got to see Filter the year they came out with that single. They opened for the Meat Puppets...cool show.

Anyway, Im not going to argue small points. My uneducated opinion. Very bad decision on the part of the older guy and I hope to see justice served.

Oh, justice will be served, the man will spend the rest of his life behind bars

I just see a epic sized silver lining potential here...a return to the fear of freaking God in the youth when considering pissing off the elderly.
I am tired of hearing yobs torturing elderly, pushing them down manholes until they die, etc...

a few bodies may set things straight again...and since other respectable youth won't clamp down on their counterparts to show the elders respect, and the adults will turn a blind eye and hope everyone gets along, then yep, its time for the elders to bring it home.

anyhow, done with the thread. I see the overall action and consequence justified. on a person to person level, its of course sad on both parts, but the outcome that lasts may be great.

and if not, then more yob bodies will turn up until the outcome is what it needs to be.

The old man was inside. He came outside repeatedly and confronted the kids. That means that he was inside the house while they were throwing rocks at his car and house. He should have called the cops and stayed inside. If he wanted to go out and confront them he should have used something like pepper spray.

You can retaliate in ways that are not violent. He could have taken a picture and then went to the police and parents in the morning. Yeah it might have meant a hard night, but he could press charges and take civil action.

Vandalism is not punishable by death any where. It is punishable by flogging, and corporal punishment in some places, but death in none I know of.

The kids were wrong, and rocks could be lethal, but he was not being physically assaulted. He should have called the cops, taken pictures, confronted the kids, and repeated. Then in the morning he could take legal action. Shooting a running kid in the back is not right in any way.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Your example of throwing rocks at cars is a double edged sword for your point. What if you had have killed someone? I imagine you would have a much different perspective on you being a "good" kid. The fact is, you were doing something that could have killed someone. I bet the old guy in this case is hoping people like you are on his jury - he can just say he was trying to terrorize the kid, and didn't mean to kill him, much like you were just trying to terrorize the people in the cars you were throwing rocks at

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

It is definitely never justified to shoot at anyone over property, no one. Call the police over and over until they are climbing the walls, sure. But you don't use lethal force against a human being. Let alone a child.

edit on 14-10-2010 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

People have created some of the most incredible atrocities on earth over property..but we label it war when a nation does this...murder when a individual does it.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Let this be a lesson to all would be terrorizers of the elderly...

They may shoot you in the back! No doubt...

There are always consequences to your actions... and parents need to teach this quick to their children... why? Because they could get shot in the back otherwise for doing stupid stuff...

I feel for the parents, but the kid should have known better... Hopefully he has made an example for others...

The youths were predators against an old man.

Where was the mother? Instead of teaching respect to the elderly, these punks were throwing rocks at him.

Yes, the old man got rid of one more predator.

I've always stated, "all life is precious" - well I stand corrected and ready to eat crow.

There are some people on this planet that are predators, (no I'm not senile but this is the exact term for someone that preys on old people, children and the homeless).

I work in a food distribution center for the homeless. A old guy, Vietnam Vet, my friend - use to come in every time I served meals. He was really a nice old guy that had, had a really rough life.

Wanna know how his life ended?

He was sleeping in a alley and a bunch of punks beat the crap out of him with a couple baseball bats.

He died the next day of head wounds.

These same punks would victimize you as well Hot Baked, your daughter, grand daughter or father.

They are predators and we need to be rid of them.

Tell you what, volunteer at a homeless shelter and you will start to hear how many young people now have no respect for the law or those weaker than them.

Any person that preys (there is that word again) upon another, animal or human, that is weaker than them is a @sshole.

With strength comes the responsiblity to protect those weaker than yourself, not preying upon them. That is what is suppose to set man above the animals.

Except, for the most part, animals only prey upon the weak for a meal, man does it for sport.

Our society now makes it "cute" to be a badarse tough guy and that's part of the problem.

Xbox, the Hollywood shoot em up ghetto mentality.

I use to work in nursing in downtown St. Louis years back and if you have ever put a stabbed, beaten or shotgun in the morgue drawer you would know what I am talking about.

Bullies need to be taught and in this case, one more bully predator was removed from this planet.

Sorry to rant, but this guy that I grew to know and like did not deserve to die at the end of a baseball bat.

It's sad there are so many lost souls right now.

reply to post by Brood


are you an extremest?

i've done stupid stuff when i was young and have never thought of revenge when i was wrong.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I can think of instances where shooting in the back are still justified to keep the public safe.

However, it is not justified to use lethal force in response to rock throwing and pranks! If the old man was known to be grouchy and the kids got a kick out of riling him up, then I am sure he was overly frustrated. The old farmers in my town would have used shotguns full of rock salt. That is teaching someone a lesson without killing them. Also, the old man could have repeatedly called police until they were as frustrated as he was and they finally did something about it. Using a gun in response to a rock thrown at a house or a car is not appropriate, and it is sad anytime someone's kid has to die.

I am all about gun rights, and rarely do I criticize someone that seemed to be acting in self-defense and fear, but from what I know on this case so far, this guy was completely wrong and should go to jail!

Rock throwing is something to be taken lightly?

What if a heavy rock hit the man's head? What if he suffered a concussion, or if his nose was broken? What if he was hit and was killed by it?

This is not some prank. This is not kids spray painting his car. They were throwing rocks at him. This is a serious matter. The man was defending himself.

Shot in the back? Why not aim for the legs or the butt? Why couldn't the old fart just call the police and file a report? For heaven's sake, people are becoming stupid: No morals or respect for other people's property and public safety from rock throwers and now this - gun slingers defending inanimate objects (of house and vehicle) over the lives of others.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


It's a tough and sad situation. I suppose to sum it all up, the good, the bad, the ugly... Teens shouldn't be terrorizing *anyone.* What if it had been a single mother? What if it had been a disabled person? The elderly should be respected and revered. This is not to say that his death was warranted. I'm only saying that he took the effort, took the steps, went out of his way to do things that led to his being shot. He wasn't an innocent victim, as in a drive-by shooting. He was participating in the torture of an elderly person. It's all tragic. Maybe this will serve as a warning to any teens (anyone) who thinks picking-on, bullying and/or terrorizing another person is "fun." Those teens were bullying and terrorizing that elderly person. Did the kid get what he deserved? Probably not. But, when you do things like bully and terrorize, sometimes the response can be lethal.

I just hope teens take this lesson to heart. But, I imagine they won't. They seem to live in a state of delusional immortality until one, or several, of them become statistics and examples, and then the cycle just repeats itself over time. Teens, unfortunately, are pretty stupid, to put it bluntly. Hey, I was there too. But, I must admit, I didn't terrorize elderly people. We all make mistakes, --except for the very few, the very fortunate--, it's a matter of learning from them and becoming better people. I suppose when you really go out of your way to hurt someone, to terrorize them by aggressively throwing rocks at them in hopes of doing damage to their domicile and/or causing potentially deadly physical harm (rocks, ladies and gentlemen, can KILL), you can elicit the fight or flight mentality from someone. And, this elderly person had nowhere to run because they were attacking HIS HOME.

When you do that to a person, prepare for an *escalated response.* When you take part in that level of torment against another person, you may not get a chance to learn from your mistake.

Originally posted by warequalsmurder
There's an old rule that men follow and it goes like this:
"Never fight an old man. He can't win, so he'll just kill you."

Screw with an old bull, like these thugs were doing and you'll get the horns eventually.

edit on 14-10-2010 by warequalsmurder because: (no reason given)

Throwing rocks at a house should result in a child's death??

I Never knew how insane this website was until tonight.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Originally posted by warequalsmurder
There's an old rule that men follow and it goes like this:
"Never fight an old man. He can't win, so he'll just kill you."

Screw with an old bull, like these thugs were doing and you'll get the horns eventually.

edit on 14-10-2010 by warequalsmurder because: (no reason given)

Throwing rocks at a house should result in a child's death??

I Never knew how insane this website was until tonight.

Obviously you have not been tormented by people trying to hurt you via throwing potentially lethal volleys of rocks. Obviously you don't have the empathy to put yourself in the shoes of someone whose home, whose private refuge is being attacked. Obviously you didn't consider that ROCKS CAN KILL and that they were trying to hurt him, scare him, intimidate him, BULLY HIM, TERRORIZE HIM. Have you had such experiences? From your post, probably not. Even so, you should be able to put yourself in his shoes, realizing that a rock to the side of anyone's head can kill, let alone having that someone be an elderly person.

Was the price paid by the teen just? Only God can say. Only Fate can say. We can try to analyze it, and to us, sure, it was probably most unfortunate. But, the teen went far out of his way to make life miserable for an elderly person. He tried to destroy his home. He tried to harm the person. ROCKS DESTROY AND ROCKS KILL. The message is clear: don't terrorize other people; don't bully them; don't try to destroy and damage their home. When you corner a tiger, and it has nowhere to run, it will attack with more ferocity than you can imagine. The same is true for people.

Insane? Who is to say *who* is insane? To defend aggressive attackers and terrorists is insane. Those teens were terrorists to that elderly person. Maybe people will learn from this and stop terrorizing others. What's worse... they were doing it for fun. For fun!!? THAT, dear poster, is INSANITY.

Originally posted by randomname
Jesus, said u live by the sword u die by the sword, now this old man in all likely hood is going to prison, and the kid is dead. he should have just in the air and scared the crap out of them.

Really? You contradict yourself- they started it (live by the sword) he finished it (die by the sword)....
i really don't think Jesus would have condoned throwing rocks at senior citizens......

reply to post by GhostLancer


...he murdered a kid who threw rocks at his home.

Hey remeber the scene in riverworrld where pizzaro is about to kill whats his name and sam clemens shoots him in the back?
Pizzaro turns to clemens and says "IN the back sam?"
and clemens says "where i come from you shoot any mad dog from behind, and from a safe distance."Matter of factly repulling the trigger and finishing the guy off....good old sam
I am an old man....my sympathy is with the old dude....
I believe that they went to greater lengths to terrorise him than described as in over a longer period than a night.
How would you like to be barricaded in because some punks are making threatening gestures and damaging yer house and car.And dont tell me rocks dont make dents.or break glass....
If she was such a good mom what the hey was she dropping the kid off in the ghetto situation where there are all kinds of dangers for the unaware or ignorant starnger.?(or the easily led....)