Ancient Anomalies and Aliens - Part 1: Art

reply to post by Phage

Ancient people had no imaginations? Ancient people had no creativity? Ancient people had no artistic sense? Ancient people had no scary stories to make their kids behave? Ancient people had no fun?

I at least think we should give careful consideration, to how well controled, each your rhetoricals might have been.

reply to post by CHA0S

Chaos you have understood exactly my point, no worriers about getting back to me later, we all have other things to do in the course of 24 hours
And Reevster, you are reflecting a similar point regarding the ever growing knowledge we are gaining about ancient architecture and infrastructure left behind by previous civilizations, which have been so intricately, perfectly and beautifully constructed and in some cases on such a MASSIVE scale, (of course.... by using 1000's of manpower dressed in in loin cloths and sandals?,... wooden rollers and cranes constructed on wooden platforms bound with bamboo strands and then leaving no trace of evidence, tools, settlements, or such the like anywhere in the vicinity of the these huge building sites. or along the designated routes from origin to destination of the building materials.)
The perfection with which many of these structure have been constructed would cause a major headache for most of today's modern architects and construction companies.
Simply the logistics and transport of the necessary building materials in some cases 1000's of miles across sand, land, sea and mountains dense forests and waterlogged landscapes would take years, decades, centuries even millennium, let alone the planning.
How did these primitive people waling the earth at that time simply move 1000's of tones of these huge granite blocks cut, lift and place them perfectly with such precision and detail you would need laser technology to accomplish that today, and then bid them with metallurgy we have only developed in the last century requiring furnaces generating heat up to 3000 degrees? All of this, just like that 1000's of years ago without technical aid?
.. GET REAL DEBUNKERS.

It is plain to see the overwhelming evidence, the physical facts on the ground within so many ancient structures we have already discovered. Main stream archaeology and science is embarrassed BIG TIME and try to debunk all the evidence for one very simple reason. PRIDE.
They cannot classify these structures because it's beyond their own comprehension.
In affect, we believers can be likened to Galileo..we "see things" somewhat different compared to the "schooled" scientists, archaeologists who are still lost and chained the the walls of belief within their "PRISONS of ACADEMIA" ..
.....and the world is indeed round..and we do orbit the sun...if like us people would think outside the box....
they would see we never were and still are not alone in this great universe.

reply to post by randyvs



Isn't that just saying NO just to say NO though? I'm still waiting for you guys to present evidence they DON'T exist. Its one thing to present evidence they don't exist. It's another thing to say they don't exist with no evidence.

I hope I said that right...

reply to post by Come Clean

Not that it is any of your business but I do not consider myself a Christian.

There is much evidence for the existence of black holes. There is much evidence for the presence of a solid inner core and liquid outer core composed of mostly iron. The evidence is strong and not subject to interpretation. I do not have to see a black hole to think they exist but I do need strong evidence. I do not have to see the Earth's core to know its composition. I have never been to Nigeria but there is strong evidence that it exists. Evidence which is not subject to interpretation.

Artwork is a creative expression, subject to interpretation. There is no evidence, other than personal interpretation that these artworks represent evidence of ET visitation or influence.

Is this an alien?

Here is an interesting information source providing some outstanding example of "very strange artifacts" discovered over the years which point in the direction of ancient civilizations and alien intervention.
It' a download 11mb but worth it weight in megabytes without doubt.

www.dl4all.com...
Earth's Forbidden Secrets - Maxwell Igan

Maxwell Igan

ll Igan | 11 MB | PDF | 259 Pages
This makes good reading and most I would assume are facts.

The Lolladoff plate is a hoax. It is claimed to be from Nepal with an age of several thousands of years. However, it first surfaced in a book titled "Sungods in Exile", written by David Agamon back in the 70's. It's important to note that Mr. Agamon has admitted on several occasions and on the record that this was a hoax. It is not found in a Berlin museum or any museum for that matter, as it is a hoax, plain and simple.

Some of the art from the middle ages is actually describing Halley's Comet that appeared in 1066. In the art work, it can often look like a rocket, saucer or spaceship, but it really is only describing the famous comet.

I have no had the chance to look at any of the other works in your thread, but I'm sure that some of them at least, have rational explanations.


--airspoon

Isn't that just saying NO just to say NO though? I'm still waiting for you guys to present evidence they DON'T exist. Its one thing to present evidence they don't exist. It's another thing to say they don't exist with no evidence.

reply to post by Come Clean


One thing I have to agree with Phage on is that an artists rendering of something or anything for that matter
is evidence of absolutly nothing. We can only consider the possibilities for why these things exist.? Evidence not.

reply to post by manalien

It is plain to see the overwhelming evidence, the physical facts on the ground within so many ancient structures we have already discovered. Main stream archaeology and science is embarrassed BIG TIME and try to debunk all the evidence for one very simple reason. PRIDE.

I can't wait to do the part on ancient structures, it will be juicy! And I think you are correct, we want to believe we are responsible for everything. When dealing with this theory people will often say "hey come on, give the human race some credit"...well I do, I give them credit for what THEY achieve...and I see what they obviously haven't achieved on their own also...I say some groups (aliens) aren't getting credit.

They cannot classify these structures because it's beyond their own comprehension.
In affect, we believers can be likened to Galileo..we "see things" somewhat different compared to the "schooled" scientists, archaeologists who are still lost and chained the the walls of belief within their "PRISONS of ACADEMIA" ..

Right on the money. I've seen historians come up with some REALLY obscure and speculative theories to try to explain ancient structures and other things. In the end it gets to the point where their explanation is completely insane and unlikely, but we can't just accept the obvious conclusion, not when it threatens what we think we know. In their minds their outlandish but "scientific" theories are a lot more likely simply because it doesn't involve "aliens". THAT is the prison of academia. There are always PRECONCEPTIONS. For example Phage will go into any thread with an EXTREMELY predictable stance, despite what type of evidence is presented, he will probably argue the "scientific" or "mundane" explanation, according to mainstream views usually. Science already has an "idea" about how everything works, therefore there is a MISCONCEPTION that science is always correct about everything, and theories become more like fact. Science EXPECTS to see answers it has predicted, therefore it isn't looking where it doesn't think answers exist, and even denies such answers because it already thinks it has the answer without even looking.

reply to post by manalien


Yes, an awesome book showing just how old we really are.
The iron pillars found in India that is made out of the purest iron known to be on earth. They don't rust. The Moon is the only other place we have found iron that pure in form. Just one of the many crazy things in Igan's book.

Originally posted by Phage

As has been pointed out, the religious art of the middle ages is rife with specific symbolism.

Specific symbolism Phage? "Specific symbolism" overtly appears to negate certain possible interpretations, giving an impression that those creating the "art" intended the audience of the "art" to be interpretted in specific or only unique ways. The rhetoric chosen implies that secrets were encoded, but meant to be understood by those who would know the ciphers. "specific symbolism" negates options, and confines what was being conveyed to a limited number of possibilies.

Without an understanding of that symbolism it is easy to make guesses about what is depicted but it's easy for those guesses to be wrong. Something that puzzles me about the UFO interpretations in this art is that these are artistic renderings of biblical events. Where in the stories which inspired the art are the UFOs?

Where in the stories?

Phage. It is already proven fact that the biblical stories which inspired the art were written in codes with the Atbash cipher being one such acknowledge and recognized example that was used in the rightings of the book of Jeremiah, and is acknowledged by modern scholars.

Phage. Apply the verses of the stories to the verses of the stories. Apply the words of the words to the words in the books. The bible, the torah, holy books, were written to be understood in multiple ways, out of perceived necessity, if one can choose to apply one's own self towards the seemingly covert and ambiguous, symbolic, and metaphorical nature of the styles in which information is mediated, locked away, hidden, and may be decoded, deciphered. Language and literacy, no matter what your teachers anchored you to believe, is more than just left to right. They were nude in the garden of edun. or eden if you prefer. Sometimes the vowels can appear as wolves, deceivers amongst the ovis aries, yet of the same ingredients. Vowels and wolVes are two words made of the same stuff. Perhaps "symbolism" to be interpreted in a "specific way", by those with "understanding" who aren't just making "guesses" as to how it is to be interpeted, Nor assuming they know fully the intentionality and priorities of those who created the artwork, other than to express imagery they wished to transfer into the future.

Phage: Munitions unto a simian

For me, the Inca objects bear a stylized resemblance to the family of fish, rhinobatidae, more than any aircraft I've ever seen. The arrangement of the empennage does not really make sense from an aerodynamic standpoint, with the horizontal stabilizer positioned so far forward of the vertical. Yes, it can be made to fly, but so can a lawn mower.

Really, you think these "figurines" (for lack of another word) look like guitar fish?

[ats]http://www.prionace.it/chitarra.JPG[/url]

Interpreting very ancient drawings becomes problematic. Placing the mystical representations by ancient man into the context of reality is a reach but even so, there is no reason to call upon an extraterrestrial interpretation.

]

No reason Phage? Absolutely none? This particular subject matter in this particular forum has 0% relevance here? "Mystical representations by ancient man" has no context in reality? Phage, we disagree. This doesn't mean I do not like or respect your views on certain issues, and I do have a reverence for the information your senses and experiences have garnered. But, I disagree with your summary on this issue, and your apparent abstinence from some possible interpretations. To say there is no reason to consider extraterrestrial interpretation is .... well... I don't know what to call it, Phage. I just dissagree with the level of absoluteness of the statement. I find the that statement hard to accept.

Placing the mystical representations by ancient man into the context of reality is a reach but even so, there is no reason to call upon an extraterrestrial interpretation.

I don't know what else to say about the above, maybe I'm misinterpretting what you mean.

Shamans, kings, and warriors often (usually) bear distinctive headgear in order to distinguish themselves from others.

Why? A learned behavior, copied from nature, or paganistic beliefs that evolved throughout our pre-history, perhaps? (rhetorical questions) Something worth pondering, in my opinion. But, if closure on this issue is something you have achieved, and the answer serves you well, then you are entitiled to your encompassing beliefs for kings, shamans, warriors, and spiritual practices and imagery, and all their intentions and practices origins. I know you are knowledgable about certain things, things I may be ignorant of, and visa versa. That is why we endeavor for intellectually founded dialogue with others here on ATS. Sharing information.

I mean no disrespect, I just would like to let you know where I stand on this particular issue. I am not convinced our history has been overtly dissiminated evenly among all, and even today the fact that specialities and fields of study have their own specific jargon and rhetoric is still a practice, perhaps a reflection of conditioned perceived biological obligations, internal loyalties.

I'm just not sure how many people from how many cultures I am prepared to call liars or accept their symbolism and metaphorical imagery was not based in some familiar real foundation in reality. Fairly ambiguos messages have been carried through generations, and I don't subscribe to the belief it was not done for relatively important, and covert purposes.

Thanks for taking the time to read this Phage,
John Paul
______________________

CHAOS & Fellow ATS members,
Another example of native American petraglyph from prehistory:

In 1966 a 7000 year old petraglyph was discovered in the province of Querétaro, Mexico. There are 4 figures with outstretched arms below a large oval object radiating what appear to be beams of light:



Just sharing my thoughts, and my opinions on some issues. I'm comfortable reserving the right to claim I may be absolutely mistaken about certain things pending experiences and information my senses may garner

Thanks,
ET

reply to post by randyvs


Okay,

But where is the concrete evidence they don't exist? Phage requires proof they exist. Well, I require proof they don't exist. But to use his words, "you can't prove something that doesn't exist." That's his words from a few days back. Well, " he can't DISPROVE something that exist beyond his limited understanding of the universe can he?" He already admitted he doesn't know everything there is to know about the universe. Let alone this planet we call Earth. If he did then he should cure cancer for all of us. I mean really, if he know everything then he at least should know how to cure cancer right?

Isn't this the real issue? No one has proof one way or the other? So what we know or don't know pretty much equals out right?

In comes ancient text and pictures. Let me ask you something. If these beings were around in biblical times wouldn't it make sense they WOULD NOT conceal themselves as much? Its not like they have video camera's back then. And wouldn't it make sense (as time progressed) they would START TO conceal themselves according to our technology?

Excellent thread - as someone else has said already, it's nice to get these pics in once place. I don't believe all of the featured pics are intentional depictions of aliens/ UFOs, but I would guess around 70% were created as a means of recording something 'alien' that the artist had witnessed.

There's a lot to this, and I find it sad that pseudobunkers make such an effort to 'debunk' the ancient aliens theories.

There weren't many 'gods' on earth - they were the ULTIMATE-ELITE, and maintained an aloof, carefully controlled stance in the face of humanity - probably only a few hundred around at any one time, overseeing hundreds of thousands/ millions of low tech humans. Their compounds (ziggurats etc) were exceptionally well-built and architecturally advanced/ suited to the climate. If they used plastics at all, what of the possibility that they used a biodegradable form? If they were advanced, technologically and in terms of social engineering, they would appreciate 'low impact' living. Even more so if they wanted to be seen as 'gods'. Stand aloof, and don't leave the 'holy materials' lying around for any little human rascal to pick up and show to his friends.

If they had/ have an agenda, including the need to remain hidden throughout the centuries, then they would have been exceptionally careful to clean up after themselves.

reply to post by Phage

For me, the Inca objects bear a stylized resemblance to the family of fish, rhinobatidae, more than any aircraft I've ever seen. The arrangement of the empennage does not really make sense from an aerodynamic standpoint, with the horizontal stabilizer positioned so far forward of the vertical. Yes, it can be made to fly, but so can a lawn mower.

Hmm. Sounds like 'science of the gaps' to me.

Nice try!

your thread has been picked up by other sites

______beforeitsnews/story/208/918/Ancient_Anomalies_and_Aliens_-_Part_1:_Art.html

your a star so heres a star and a flag

xp

reply to post by Phage


Here in lies the problem though Phage. What I call evidence you call nonsense. How can we have a meeting of the minds when you are entrenched in your scientific ideology?

What you call a "scientific method", I call it people knowing the answer then making up the questions as they go.

Again Phage, if you know the answer is 4 then the questions (THEORIES) are infinite. (5-1=4, 8/2=4, 2+2=4, and 55.4 - 51.4=4.0. Oh wait...is 4 and 4.0 really the same thing Phage? Maybe here on Earth it is but what about in the universe you already admitted you know nothing about?

You know the answer is the big bang, therefore, you make up the questions (theories) as you go.

Awesome Post!

I tend to agree that UFO's as we know them today seem to be present in the artwork of many different "pre-human fight" civilizations.

However, we must take into consideration that much of what was unexplainable in ancient times we know as fact today. For Example,

www.ufoevidence.org...

This is the image you posted of a piece of art from Basel, Switzerland that is dated to 1566. Sure, it does look like UFOs if that's what you want to see. But to someone who wants to look for a logical explaination they may want to check

eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov...

You will find plenty of solar and lunar eclipse activity in the Switzerland region several years prior to 1566. Could this phenomena have been the artists inspiration for such a mysterious work of art? Of course it could have, it's art.

There is nothing here that "proves" anything. There is only a good body of circumstancial evidence that supports the OPs theory. Well done.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Come Clean

 

Not that it is any of your business but I do not consider myself a Christian.

No one I know is a true Christian, Phage.

Christ taught one commandment:
"Do unto others as you would have done unto you." and/or "Treat your neighbor as you yourself would like to be treated". Yet, not all Christians choose to treat everyone the exact same way all the time. If Christians were Christians, then surely they would be treating everyone the same identical way, and speaking to eachother the same way. I don't always like to be treated the same way. People by their own admission who claim to be a Christian who do not treat everyone the same exact way they like to be treated all the time, are only Christians in word, not in actions, not in behaviors, and apparently not in intentions, or they would be treating everyone the way they would like to be treated, which holds with it necessity of being known, and not hiding who one is. So any Christians on ATS who hide their names, hide behind avatars, hide their identities, hide their locations, hide their .... well, if they are really Christians, what their actions and behaviors say is they want everyone else to hide also.

Look at "Christian Nations", how many laws they have and how many mandatory expectations they expect their newborns to conform to within one lifetime, while no child born today is going to live long enough to learn the number of these social commandments, let alone what they all are, and what they truly mean when held within context with one another simultaneously in any situation or any environment. Laws are born of peoples' FEARs and HATEs, what people FEAR losing, and what people HATE losing, in my opinion.

What Would Jesus Do?
Jesus left, that is what Jesus would do.

Phage should not have to share his spiritual or religious beliefs, nor should any member on ATS have to justify their belief system(s).

But we do share what we choose to share, and for how Phage chose to engage that inquiry

Thoughts, Things & Stuff,
ET

Great thread!

I found this image of a petroglyph on Wikipedia a few days ago - there's a pretty unusual looking creature in the center and a wheel on the right

That is pretty fascinating stuff. I am interested in the UFO phenomenon and always have been. I'm not sure when disclosure really is though.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


It's relevant because the Catholic Church employs Christian scientists to debunk everything. He was asked a question. He can choose to answer it OR not answer it. He chose to answer it without the threat of duress.