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Alien abduction accounts take major hit:

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posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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Well this is old news. Take a look at hypnosis what is the characteristic of the hypnotic state or trance? It is a state of hypersuggestibility. Have you ever sat in court and watched a "good" lawyer manipulate a witnerss by telling them what really happened? Face facts it happens in real life much less in the hypnoid state.


edit on 22-9-2010 by tiger5 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by Xcalibur254
2. Science never claimed that humans evolved from apes. It claimed that humans and apes have a common ancestor, which is true.


Humans are apes...


Originally posted by Xcalibur254
4. Superstitions and religious belief are not science.


Old wives tales about science are not truly representative of science either.


Originally posted by Xcalibur254
Furthermore, science is an ever evolving field. If we already knew everything then there would be no need for science.


That member (now on ignore because he obviously has nothing intelligent to add to any conversation) is relying on an Appeal-to-Ignorance fallacy, thinking that it validates his beliefs. Science has been wrong (and will be wrong), therefore he believes it proves his beliefs right, without ever providing any evidence.

What he fails to realize is that science admits it is wrong. It is a self-correcting method. As we learn more about the universe around us we will overthrow fallacious beliefs, supplanting them with new knowledge. Blind ignorance and Belief as exercised by this member, however, are not self-correcting, they are not a tool by which we grow and learn. Unlike science, this blind ignorance and Belief never admit they are wrong; when they facts do not support them, they employ ever method of logical fallacy and special pleading to explain why they are not wrong but everyone else is.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 02:52 PM
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What a load of bollocks. @ "Alien abduction accounts take major hit"

This is Flat Earth thinking.

..and backward.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 02:53 PM
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The research appears to be about the idea that memories can be repressed by trauma. It says nothing about memories that may have been deliberately buried by an external force, say by hypnosis.

If it's possible to create memory by hypnosis it seems reasonable to suppose that it's also possible to destroy or at least mask memory using the same technique, by replacing one memory with another false memory.

The perpetrators of 'alien' abductions, whoever they are, could be using these techniques to mask the true memory.

What is more, the research has no bearing on people who remember the abduction consciously and undergo no hypnosis.

By the way the 10% brain thing is a red herring and off-topic. The fact that Human_Alien got one fact wrong doesn't negate his underlying point that we don't know everything (in fact it demonstrates it
). The salient part of the article that I think demonstrates his point is


But now some experts are saying the evidence points the other way.
(my emphasis)

It's not unreasonable to infer from this that there is disagreement in this area. It's certainly premature to use this one article to make sweeping statements about the reality or otherwise of 'alien' abductions, which aren't even mentioned in the article.

Edit: I just wanted to add the point that if alien abductions are real and being perpetrated by an external agency, it's pretty unlikely they would leave it to trauma based memory repression to cover their tracks. That would seem a pretty hit-and-miss method for all the reasons given in the article. Much more likely would be that they use a deliberate and reliable technique to mask the memories of the abduction.







edit on 22/9/2010 by MarrsAttax because: Used bold to emphasise as quote was already italicised




edit on 22/9/2010 by MarrsAttax because: (no reason given)




edit on 22/9/2010 by MarrsAttax because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Humans are apes...


Well that explains A LOT about you if you think that!

Speak for yourself monkey man...




posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by wasco2
 


I know 2 people that have ongoing abduction experiences and they are not mentally ill, nor are they liars...


I see this so called new study as being pure rubbish and propaganda....

There still is a very serious official program in place to squelch abduction stories and ufo sightings... all been documented and released documents prove it...

Either this study was conducted under a clandestine purpose, or the person conducting the study is an idiot, or both..



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Turiddu
Rational analysis and the scientific method are the only tools we have to try and understand things like this. When "believers" disparage science it only proves they are not interested in the truth and are only interested in living in delusion or deliberately perpetuating frauds for personal or monetary reasons.

As for the nature of this topic: I'm not surprised, abductions have always been one of the silliest parts of Ufology and we have not a single piece of evidence to support the claims of these people.

Abductions can be explained in terms of:

-Sleep paralysis + overactive imagination (likely the majority of cases)

You are confused and wrong. The vast majority of abductions occur during the day when the abductee is awake. Statistical surveys of people claiming to be abductees have shown that they are no more imaginative than the rest of the human population. "Imagination" does not explain physical traces, like scoop marks on the bood, unexplained scarring and bruising - even radiation poisoning in some cases.

Originally posted by Turiddu
-Mental illness + unscrupulous "investigators" and therapists leading people into these fantasies
-Outright lying

That's pure fantasy on YOUR part. Absolutely no evidence to support your vacuous delusions.

Originally posted by Turiddu
I wouldn't be surprised if some "abductees" have committed suicide or have turned to drugs or alcohol abuse to deal with their issues. In this case, Ufologists and hypnotherapists have done grievous damage to their fellow human beings.

You invent what you want to believe and then use it as an argument. Once again, you give no evidence supporting your wild conjecture. Try thinking more scientifically.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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Why, why, WHY would an alien go to the trouble of returning an "abductee" to earth?

When Calvin Klein tests perfume on mices' eyes, I doubt he takes them back to the field afterward. Think about it.


edit on 22-9-2010 by FOXMULDER147 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
Well that explains A LOT about you if you think that!


It is scientific fact.


Humans, known taxonomically as Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man"), are the only living species in the Homo genus of bipedal primates in Hominidae, the great ape family
. Source


The Hominidae (anglicized hominids, also known as great apes[notes 1]) form a taxonomic family, including four extant genera: chimpanzees, gorillas, humans, and orangutans.
Source

Humans and chimpanzees are closely related, sharing 96% of the same genes.


"Darwin wasn't just provocative in saying that we descend from the apes—he didn't go far enough," said Frans de Waal, a primate scientist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. "We are apes in every way, from our long arms and tailless bodies to our habits and temperament."

Source


Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
Speak for yourself monkey man...


That explains a lot about you if you think monkeys and apes are the same thing.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien

The last thing I'll ever entertain is reading what others have to say. Please! To that one article you inserted, I can insert 5 more dispelling that! So, what's the point? They're all opinions from a bunch of people who know no more than any of us.

Science is written with a pencil and eraser.
Science once thought the world was flat.
Science once thought Humans evolved from apes.
Science once thought Pluto was a planet
Science once thought, sneezing was the devil coming out



Wow! It's obvious you know nothing about science or the scientific method. If those people didn't know any more about anything than you you could not be typing your half witted blatherings on that thing you call a computer and posting it to the amazing invention we call the Internet.

One thing I will add: did you ever notice real scientists are generally loathe to use absolutes? All scientists understand science is an ongoing process with even the most cherished beliefs subject to revision. Modern physicists, for example, know full well we don't have all the answers. The search for those missing answers is what's behind the construction of things like the Hubble telescope, Fermilab, and CERN. Someday, probably soon, some bright young physicist will take experimental results from somewhere like CERN and create a Unified Field Theory that ties Newtonian and quantum physics together. While that discovery will not change your world overnight it will almost certainly lead to new technologies as unexpected as lasers and solid state electronics with as much or more potential to change our world. Every modern convenience you enjoy on a daily basis is a practical application of principles discovered by scientists somewhere in the past. To say that people who have devoted their lives to learning everything about esoteric subjects you have never heard of know no more than you is beyond absurd, it's pathetic.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by alienreality
I know 2 people that have ongoing abduction experiences and they are not mentally ill, nor are they liars...


The notion that abductees are either telling the truth or "are lying" or "mentally ill" is a false dichotomy created by believers.

For instance, I suffer from frequent sleep paralysis that includes very vivid hallucinations, visual, auditory and tactile. When I tell you I saw, heard or felt certain things, I am telling you the truth even though these things exist only as a function of my mind, but I am not mentally ill. Human perception is not necessarily a true accounting of what a person is observing; one may easily tell the truth about something that only exists in their mind, yet they do not have to be crazy.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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Laboratory mice are specially bred for experiments. Scientists don't go hunting them in fields


It's not really possible to second guess the motives of an alien species - their behaviour may fall well outside human norms. On the other hand it may be that there purpose is important enough for them that they must engage in seemingly unethical practices such as secret abductions but at the same time they wish to minimise the harm done to their subjects. Creating screen memories may in fact be as much about minimising the harm to the abductee as it is about keeping the practice clandestine.

One further point, humans don't treat all animals in the same manner so there's no reason to suppose aliens would treat humans the same way we treat mice. We also have laws about what is and isn't acceptable in our scientific use of animals - scientists don't torture mice for fun and then throw them in the street, so your analogy is flawed.


edit on 22/9/2010 by MarrsAttax because: this post was in response to FOXMULDER147



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by micpsi
 


I am not the one making these outlandish claims, I am merely offering my thoughts on the things people like you are claiming.

Show me the proof. You made the claims, now show us the evidence.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
Well that explains A LOT about you if you think that!


It is scientific fact.


Humans, known taxonomically as Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man"), are the only living species in the Homo genus of bipedal primates in Hominidae, the great ape family
. Source


The Hominidae (anglicized hominids, also known as great apes[notes 1]) form a taxonomic family, including four extant genera: chimpanzees, gorillas, humans, and orangutans.
Source

Humans and chimpanzees are closely related, sharing 96% of the same genes.


"Darwin wasn't just provocative in saying that we descend from the apes—he didn't go far enough," said Frans de Waal, a primate scientist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. "We are apes in every way, from our long arms and tailless bodies to our habits and temperament."

Source


Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
Speak for yourself monkey man...


That explains a lot about you if you think monkeys and apes are the same thing.


Fact to a monkey maybe...

I'm no monkey - and you can't tell me I am! because I KNOW I am not!

Cheerio!



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by MarrsAttax
We also have laws about what is and isn't acceptable in our scientific use of animals - scientists don't torture mice for fun and then throw them in the street, so your analogy is flawed.

I didn't mention "torture" or "fun". Maybe aliens have laws about what is acceptable in their scientific use of humans? And regardless of whether the mice come from fields or laboratories, I'm guessing they don't resume "normal life" afterward. So, my analogy isn't flawed.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow
 


No, you are not a monkey. You are an ape like the rest of us.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Human_Alien
The last thing I'll ever entertain is reading what others have to say.


This is perhaps the most closed-minded, ignorant post ever written on ATS. Ever.


edit on 22-9-2010 by DoomsdayRex because: (no reason given)




Excuse me but, how would anyone else KNOW what I feel and.....why? People are NOT text-book drones!

Everything in science is conjecture based on opinions. Yes. Some 'opinions' hold weight but look at what's happening to Einstein's E=MC2 theory! It's being challenged and will probably end up being wrong thanks to String Theory (and in another 100 years, String Theory will be proven wrong)

I've learned that no one knows anymore about LIFE than I do. Just because someone goes to school and learns what others taught them doesn't make them right. Only puts them in a certain 'class' in which, they get a paper diploma for a receipt (not to mention the enormous amount of debt that ensues after graduation which, probably will cause major despair and depression and ironically, they become their own case study!)

No scientist will ever tell me what I experienced let alone, why! Ain't going happen. This is way beyond any Human beings comprehension so they're not about to insult me with their galactic-kindergarten level, diagnosis.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
Fact to a monkey maybe...

I'm no monkey - and you can't tell me I am! because I KNOW I am not!


I am not telling you that you are a monkey, because monkeys and apes are not the same thing.

But of course, deny the evidence. What does evidence matter when you can wallow in their filth of your ignorance.

Yet another person who does not have a single intelligent thing to contribute to the forum. It seems ATS is running out of believers who are not either outright liars or willfully ignorant.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


He was replying to Turiddu's post, in particular


Abductions can be explained in terms of:

-Sleep paralysis + overactive imagination (likely the majority of cases)
-Mental illness + unscrupulous "investigators" and therapists leading people into these fantasies
-Outright lying


so it's a bit unfair to imply he's somehow introducing a false dichotomy when all he's doing is responding to the charge. From your premise it's possible to infer the conclusion that as his friends aren't mentally ill or liars they must be suffering from sleep paralysis. Turridu would certainly seem to be saying that (I don't want to put words in people's mouths though). Would you agree that that is also a false dichotomy (trichotomy?) give that it's never been proved that sleep paralysis is the cause of alien abduction phenomena. There may be other explanations (earth-bound or otherwise).

I don't recall ever seeing a study that definitively proved that sleep paralysis was the cause of alien abduction phenomena. There is an interesting article by Dr Susan Blackmore which is pertinent to this discussion www.susanblackmore.co.uk... where she describes an experiment she underwent performed by Michael Persinger, that fired magnetic impulses in to her brain. The results were suggestive but by no means outright proof of causality. Indeed, there would seem (to me at least) to be quite a lot of differences between her experience and that claimed by abductees.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Turiddu
No, you are not a monkey. You are an ape like the rest of us.


Save your energy. The effort to educate him would be wasted. Better to put him on ignore and concentrate on those members who are not closed-minded fools.



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