It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Alien abduction accounts take major hit:

page: 4
9
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 11:14 PM
link   
reply to post by wasco2
 


What if the new research making suggestions is funded by lobbyists, politicians, or weirdos?

Ex: The Reich's "superhuman"s... "ClimateGate"... etc.

What if new research making suggestions is contradictory?

Ex: Thermesol / mercury is good for kids' brain development ; Mercury is a particularly damaging heavy metal to brain cells...

What happens when a society regurgitates the credibility of researchers on a wholesale basis? ;-)




posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 01:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Technology is keeping us from being spiritual Beings and REALLY tapping into our TRIUE capabilities.


So thousands upon thousands of years with no technology yielded nothing that you are alluding to, and you're suggesting now that it's the industrialised/technological era that is preventing us from being all that we can be?


If we honed into that, I could read your mind and not need the Internet to communicate!


Do you have any peer reviewed research to back that claim or is that just a personal belief system that you may share with other like minded individuals? Don't get me wrong, I'd love that stuff to be true but I just don't see any trustworthy evidence for it... which is why James Randy still has his $1,000,000.00.

IRM



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 01:44 AM
link   
What nonsense. The science of mind control, started by the Nazis and perfected by the CIA, is FUNDAMENTALLY BASED on the PROVEN concept of compartmentalization of memory.

One word for ya, buddy - MKUltra. Thread fail.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 01:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by Human_AlienTechnology is keeping us from being spiritual Beings and REALLY tapping into our TRIUE capabilities.


I dunno, I'm with Carl on this one...

"If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate."
-Carl Sagan



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 03:35 AM
link   

He maintains false memories can easily be created by inept therapists


i will go one step further :

" ape maintains that false memories can easily be created by dishonest therapists "


i offer as my evidence the various " satanic " and " ritual " child abuse cases esp here [ the UK ] and the USA



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 03:48 AM
link   
reply to OP
 

Well posted. Repression is an idea of Freud's. It was never researched or tested before acceptance. It is a pseudoscience. Freud's ideas are generally discredited nowadays.

A good deal of recent work casts serious doubt on traumatic repression. A review of this literature, by Yakov Rofé, was published in he Review of General Psychology recently: see here for more information.

Indeed, 'repression' appears to be a recent cultural artifact rather than a neurological fact.

Repression of real-life memories through hypnosis, on the other hand, appears to be quite possible.

Alien abductees are either sleep paralytics with overactive imaginations, or mentally disturbed people, or else they are just making things up.

edit on 23/9/10 by Astyanax because: URLs needed fixing.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 04:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by Human_Alien
The last thing I'll ever entertain is reading what others have to say.

That is rather obvious from the quality of your ideas and arguments.


Science is written with a pencil and eraser.

Science is not written. Science is done. Scientific papers are written, usually on word processors.


Science once thought the world was flat.

Science as we know it did not exist until Galileo. No scientist has ever thought the world was flat.


Science once thought Humans evolved from apes.

They still do. And we are still apes.


Science once thought Pluto was a planet

The definition of 'planet' has changed, and Pluto's status with it, but scientific ideas about Pluto have not changed.


Science once thought, sneezing was the devil coming out

This is what old wives and maundering old church bigots thought, not scientists.


I'm not going to waste anymore time telling you what "science' once thought but you get my drift.

Yes. the drift appears to be equal parts cluelessness, bumptious self-complacency and misinformation.

Anyway, it is the business of science to be wrong. That is because it is the business of science to be right. Luddites, mystics and confabulating hysterics rarely understand this.


I had an experience and 'science' is not about to come in and eradicate my experience. Sorry. Not going to happen.

Who cares about your experience if you can't prove it happened? Common sense and science both tell us it most probably did not. Common sense and science suggest that you are merely confabulating hysterically or telling outright untruths. Until you can prove your experience really did happen--and that requires science, I'm afraid--only gullible fools will believe you.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 05:29 AM
link   
One thing I always thought interesting was how the abductees ascend to the UFO through the roof. Then I get these weird explanations how it's some technology that makes you into atoms and transform through the roof or whatever... why don't the aliens use the balcony door? And what if the door is locked?

Sure the abduction is a very umm... artistic, and psychologically interesting thing. Well, the stories are faschinating to read as well. I'm not saying I'm 100% they don't happen. But maybe 90%.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 05:59 AM
link   
Why is it that every time an unusual occurrence with humans exist - whether it be homosexuality, stress-related issues, and in this case abduction cases - do they always say "mentally ill"?????

Is that the solution to everything? I suppose it would make their job a lot easier by just saying that, 'oh...he/she is displaying unusual characteristics...they must be mentally ill!'



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 06:30 AM
link   
reply to post by Brad-H
 


You raise a good point. Any reported phenomena can be explained away by saying the witness is mentally ill or lying. But what does such an explanation get you?

Hand-waving away these accounts like this just demonstrates a lack of curiosity in my opinion.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 06:49 AM
link   
reply to post by MarrsAttax
 



please review the experiences generated by the koren helmet

that is just a simple and quite crude [ compared to the ranges of electrical and chemical activity within the brain ]magnetic feild generator

considring the greater rangers of delusions and halucinsations that the human brain can generate - its no great leap to suggest that electro / chemical imbalances CAN / COULD be the cause of " alien abduction " phenonemon

yes / no ?



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 08:25 AM
link   
new research becomes old research when there is newer research...which im sure w/the topic of alien abduction more research is around the cosmic corner!!



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:29 AM
link   
reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


I agree it's possible.

I think this is the same equipment used by Susan Blackmore in the article I linked to earlier. Like I said before the experiences are suggestive but I've yet to hear of anyone wearing this helmet having a 'classic abduction' experience. If you can get hold of a copy you should read The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman. His study cases seem a lot closer to the alien abduction experience. Unfortunately it's not really possible to discuss that in any depth here because of ATS restrictions about discussing that whole area.

Another argument against the magnetic field theory is that I'm unaware of any cases where there is evidence of strong magnetic fields present at the time of an abduction (I stand to be corrected on this). Of course that could be down to the inherent difficulty of obtaining evidence in a scientific way of what is essentially an unpredictable phenomenon. However, it's still the case that this makes Persinger's theories supposition until more evidence is forthcoming.

Also, I concede it's a stretch, but who's to say that that Persinger's experiments, rather than creating false realities in the mind aren't actually unlocking people's perception of a truer reality? As an analogy, consider this. I wear contact lenses because I am short-sighted. Without them the world appears to me to be blurry and out of focus, when I put them in objects become clear and sharp. Which is the real world? The blurry one I see naturally or the sharp one I see with my technological aids? Maybe Persinger's helmet brings the 'real' world into focus? Probably not but who knows?



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by Human_Alien





Do you have any peer reviewed research to back that claim or is that just a personal belief system that you may share with other like minded individuals? Don't get me wrong, I'd love that stuff to be true but I just don't see any trustworthy evidence for it... which is why James Randy still has his $1,000,000.00.

IRM



Here's what makes me different than you. I don't need that mob-mentality vote to qualify and dignify my deep beliefs. In fact, when the mob-crowd gets too large.....that's usually an indication, I'm on the wrong side!

I believe on an Universal level. I've had experiences that affords me to know the answers are not Earth bound. And it's to each of us singularly, to find the connection Universally.

So science will be good (to some limited degree) for Earth's mechanics but will never obtain an Universal epiphany. They can fire up as many LHC's they want. Won't happen. Not the way they're going about it. And if they think they've figured out our minds well.....that's just modern-caveman beating his ego chest in arrogance.

Life, is not the hard. We're (science, religion, education are) making it complicated. Smashing atoms, worshipping dead people and teaching ideologies that contain 'periods' after a sentence is taking people away from their truth. We're never going to 'figure it out' that way. The answers are within.

Not sure why people are mocking me cause I'm not mocking anyone personally on here. Apparently my beliefs are touching a raw-nerve with some and if that's the case perhaps it's time to let go of your dogma and fine-tune your karma!



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:53 AM
link   
reply to post by wasco2
 


NOPE.

THIS psychologist wholesale disagrees with your assertions.

No time to track down ref's . . . however . . .

Persistent research has demonstrated there is NO significantly greater incidence of mental illness amongst abductees.

As might be expected, THEY DO show signs of PSTD

DOH!

I don't recall the stats on what percentage of abductees memories have been 'retrieved' by hypnosis. Also, one would have to control for kosher absolutely NON LEADING questions under hypnosis with otherwise.

A VAST NUMBER OF ABDUCTEES HAVE MEMORIES SPONTANEOUSLY CLEARLY APPEARING WITHOUT A SHRED OF HYPNOSIS.

In other words, your hypothesis is nonsense.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 11:05 AM
link   
reply to post by MarrsAttax
 


What Persinger has found does not require a magnetic field. What his helmet does is virtually lesions an area of the brain. Before Persinger's research we already knew this area of the brain was associated with religious experiences. People who suffer from epilepsy in this area of the brain will occasionally report having a religious experience while seizing.

However, I do agree with you that the abduction scenario seems to be more the product of naturally occurring psychedelics. We already know that '___' exists in the brain and that it seems to have a role in dreaming. We have also seen that people under the influence of psychedelics can report seeing creatures similar in appearance to the Greys. Aleister Crowley even drew a picture of what he saw while on psychedelics. So, from this '___' seems to be a likely explanation for many abduction scearios.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 11:24 AM
link   
Can picture it now, harden sceptic/debunker or advocate of this anti mind regression wakes up to find really strange beings staring at him from the bottom of his bed, he is extremely freaked out but all of his reasoning are telling him this IS for real and is no dream or hallucination.He awakes in the morning with no memory of it but a strange feeling that something happened, the day goes by and then certain things that happen in his day suddenly awake memories from the previous night.

He then starts to have major flash backs but these are very different to the memories of intense dreams, he has the feeling and urge to check his body and he finds strange marks and abrasions, perplexed he starts to question his sanity but something tells him that this is very real, he comes across a man by the name of DR JOHN MACK and agrees to an intense interview and annalist by him.Dr Macks findings find him NOT suffering from hallucinations, NOT experiencing the "waking dream" scenario, NOT mentally ill , NOT making it up.These and cases like them have been investigated by MACK considering his reputation and experience are we to dismiss Macks over all findings based on professional insights and investigation's, i for one will NOT.


“…because of its conspicuous attempts to be even handed and the introduction of cross-cultural material, Passport to the Cosmos breaks new ground. ...A credible work on an incredible topic and worth reading.” — Albert A. Harrison, Ph.D., Professor of Psychology, UC Davis, National Institute for Discovery Science



“Passport to the Cosmos provides the most sophisticated and insightful analysis to date about alien abduction phenomenon. [Mack deserves] thanks for holding his ground in the face of critics.” — Michael Zimmerman, Ph.D., Chair of the Dept. of Philosophy, Tulane University



SOURCE LINK ;www.passporttothecosmos.com...



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 11:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


It's a possible explanation for sure but I don't know if it can explain everything.

And we should always guard against the conclusion that because two phenomena are similar they have the same cause.

I go back to my point about there being no evidence for magnetic fields during abductions, likewise there is no known mechanism that would account for the sudden rise in naturally occurring neurotransmitters that would be necessary to explain vivid hallucinations of that sort. That seems to me to be the weak part of the theory that this could explain abductions. In his book I think it's fair to say Strassman didn't rule out that his experiments were actually allowing the test subjects to access another level of reality, rather than simply experiencing hallucinations. I'm not sure I agree with that view but it remains a possibility.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 01:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by wasco2
New research suggests repressed memories don't exist. Since most "abductees" discover their ordeals under hypnosis this represents a major blow to those who claim alien abductions are real and widespread. I've met dozens of claimed "abductees" and always suspected most of them are mentally ill, this just strengthens that belief.

www.abc.net.au...


Is your statement 'most "abductees" discover their ordeals under hypnosis' fact, or is it something you just personally believe or presume?

I've had abduction type memories since childhood and never had any need for hypnosis. If you want to believe I'm mentally ill or lying then there's no reasoning with you, you are simply refusing to even consider on realm of possibility. Dr John E. Mack carried out research without letting preconcieved notions of what is and isn't possible stop him in the first place, he screened people for mental illness and suggestibility, then he listened to what they had to say. All of them had some degree of conscious memory in order to come to him in the first place.

After 10 years, he concluded that something significant really had happened to these people but the experience and nature of it, does not fit into our western world view at all. It's not necesscarily as simple as presuming that all 'abductees' are compulsively lying, attention seeking loony hillbillies.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 12:49 AM
link   
I have never been a big supporter of all the abduction and contactee stories, but I am skeptical about this idea that selective memories, partial amnesia and repressed memories do not exist. Can anyone in all honesty say that they have not repressed or forgotten certain unpleasant ot traumatic experiences in their life? Can anyone say that certain memories do not fade with time?


And then what happens if people encounter some hostile elements who deliberately induce amnesia? We know that can be done with certain drugs and hypnotic techniques.



new topics

top topics



 
9
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join