Muslims do NOT care if we burn the Koran! They care about THIS!

reply to post by Serizawa


I'm sure I'm not alone when I say, I'd like to hear you attempt to answer your own questions first.
What do you think?

Many are suspect of those who ask questions with no attempt to answer them themself as in 'reaching'.
It takes all kinds to make an ats forum.

Many have heard the most a man can say about something or nothing at all.
So speak freely, everyone's on edge anyhow.....
What's another 'shake' gonna do.
Not much.....for now.

Them fellers are treed.
Folks are re-assessing the 'catch and release' idea.

There seems to be quite a few whales on the loose making waves in the pools they created.
Sometimes a fish outgrows it's pond and lies fallow on the bank of no return.
Some can't wait to get back to the moon, only to realize how lonely it was.....

prettttttty sure they would still sacrifice me to their evil fake god if they caught me setting fire to their sacred set of killing guidelines.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
except that once again you are ignoring the fact that we didnt invade them until AFTER they flew planes into one of the largest cities on the planet, which happen to be on US soil......

Who was it that flew those planes?

Iraqis?

Afghans?

Those villagers burning flags on TV that look like they couldn't fly a kite in a strong wind?

Think back.

Official: 15 of 19 Sept. 11 hijackers were Saudi

Saudi Arabia acknowledged for the first time that 15 of the Sept. 11 suicide hijackers were Saudi citizens, but said Wednesday that the oil-rich kingdom bears no responsibility for their actions. USA Today

Saudis Arabia.
That's more hard evidence than those weak WMDs claims.

Yet thanks to Bush we end up in Iraq dumping a ton of taxpayer money (in their cronies accounts), and lives in Iraq, plus blowing up Afghanistan over a man we will never find.

That's why the reasons for keeping the war going kept shifting until it was more about "Iraqi Freedom", "the Taliban", and "spreading Democracy" than 9-11.

I surprised people still want to believe that.
It was never about 9-11 it was about the PNAC.

- Lee

reply to post by mattias


"Sacred set of killing guidelines you say?"
Sacred to who?
As long as folks know what is sacred to 'them' without some other 'folk' telling them what 'sacred' Is, then so be him. One should be concerned about taking 'any' word of man too seriously. Make sure you know for yourself what is right, was is wrong, if not, you know you are only fooling yourself. It's good to have an 'identity' with folks of one kind or another though remember to Be Your Own Man. If something is wrong, do something right to counter it. Why? Just because it's Right.

Freedom Is, not something to be 'bargained' with.
Who gave you 'that' idea?
Think hard till you don't find the answer.

reply to post by muzzleflash


"We shot first! "

Excuse me!?!

What drugs are you on anyway? I never want em'

Tat has to be the most retarded thing i have ever read on ats...!!!

The first shots were fired over 30 years ago when a few Islamic Speedboats packed with explosives tore apart a US warship, followed by a truck full of explosives that leveled a US military base in a friendly country, followed by 100's & 100's of attacks on millitary and civillians alike all over the world.

Anyone amrerican or sympathetic to americans was a target. In Shopping malls, on planes, on ships, in daycare centers, Schools, Night clubs....., The list goes on.

Islamic extremists started the war on christianity and the western world...

We fight back, our guns are bigger and we do more damage...

We attack outright, in the open and in plain sight. They attack from the shadow, when our backs are turned and they go for the weakest of us all "Civilians"... and your crying about a few civilians we bomb while the bad guys are using them as shields because they are gutless weak losers... Sadam was a loser, Osama is a TOTAL loser and a coward.

Try sellinbg your crap to someone who has lost family to a terrorist as well as these poor wretches your defending, then make a statment. Right now, your crap is just that... crap.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Couldn't agree more. Theirs bad on both sides. Look at that SOB who lied, new he was lieing and got all of his sick basterds to lie with him. This (puke) coward who never really accomplished anything other than put the nail in the coffin for this nation needs to have a court date. I am a retired military officer. I only wish that shoe would have bashed his f**king head in. Now we have something even worse. Didn't think it was possible. Our soldiers are coming back to a nation of zombies who are to fat, to sorry, to everything and have grown oblivious to obvious lies coming form the mouth of an expert lier (this thing thats in the oval office now). Their coming back to (now) one of the sorriest nations (whats left it) that has ever exsisted. Help hell, their more liable to get hurt coming back to something that is going to get much worse. A revolution form hell.

reply to post by donhuangenaro


Every single one of those soldiers should be given the death penalty.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

The subject of the thread is being skewed though.

The subject = They don't care we burn the Koran, they care mostly about the interventionism.

Iran Ayatollahs Issue Fatwas Against Koran-Burners

Sept. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Two Iranian grand ayatollahs issued fatwas calling for the killing of those who insult the Koran, including anyone who burns the Islamic holy book, the state-run Fars news agency reported.

No one was specified in the decrees, which were issued by Nasser Makarem-Shirazi and Hossein Nouri-Hamedani in response to questions asked by student groups from universities in Tehran, Fars said. Such an action against any individual could only be carried out with the authorization of an Islamic religious judge, they said.

“Undoubtedly, the blood of a person who burns the Koran should be shed,” Makarem-Shirazi was cited by Fars as saying.

Source

Or
They Don't Care If We Burn the Koran. - Source - An Internet Poster

I am going to have to go with "Believe the Imam means it" for $200, Alex..

reply to post by muzzleflash


couldn have said it better myself

sidenote muslims arent pissed
its just the peoples who are gettin bombed,some of them are muslim
also there are many diffrent beliefs in the muslim faith
and its mostly misunderstood
especially in usa
awesome thread

reply to post by muzzleflash


also these people who are defending their families are now being bombed by usa
throug remote controlled airplanes
without any evidence or trial
and much collatrol damage
yet these poor innocent people,that most of u think u hate, cuz they have a beard
are the terrorist
so my point
its about oil money and power-control

again good thread

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Once again, funded by the US to HELP the people in the area, i know i know, you want America to be haters of Muslims.......except we were arming them to help push out the soviets......

This isnt coming together for you too well to BASH the US, because in every instance you cited we were coming to the aid of all those Islamic nations we hate.......




This wouldn't have anything to do with the supply of oil would it?

reply to post by muzzleflash


Oh really? So the Persian Empire never existed? They never attacked, or owned huge parts of the globe?

You call others ignorant in relevance of History, yet you are completely ignorant to any History that isn't told in the US. Your own mind is already made up by years of propaganda, and just because you "google stuff" you think you actually have learned the truth.

It actually saddens me that you can have such an illusion about the world. Just because you only about the good parts (which, to them, are bad) of Western History, doesn't mean that they were all saints, poor and ignorant since the beginning of times.

They have had empires while Europe was in rubble, and we have had empires while they were in rubble. It's one of the basic notions of History, and yet you don't restrain yourself from thinking too high of yourself and "yelling" "learn some facts".

Fact: Not every Muslim hates the West, nor the US. Period. There are people who actually agree with that life style and politics, thus countries like Iran having a youth that tends to be pro-West/US. But, the ones that do hate, hate the country, as a whole, not the US military.

Fact: Those Muslims that aim hate towards the US aren't victims, okay? They are rich, powerful man with their own interests. They don't give a crap about what their people are suffering, but they do use their peoples pain in heart to justify and carry on with their goals. You failing to understand this, thinking that everyone either is a victim/saint or a murderer, is a logical fallacy.

The suicide bombers, the kids that attack troops, the soldiers that still resist, are just pawns in a much bigger game. The US isn't innocent, and the war doesn't have a reason to exist, but that doesn't mean that the US is the bogeyman and that Europe/Western civilization is the cancer of the world (bare in mind that I'm not a US citizen, nor american).

Fact: What you, and many others, are actually feeling is a notion of guilty because we live better than most parts of the world. We have food, water, shelter, luxuries, computers, tv and internet. All that with time and money to spare on mundane habits and commercial seductions. So you are filled with this hate for Western Civilization, because since your birth you have seen a Europe and America with wealth, with peace in their territories and with problems that could be solved. You saw growth and economies flourish from a form of good life.

And so you feel guilty, because you have what millions don't and will never have. And since the History that is taught in the classroom is the History of the winner, and not the looser (especially in the US), you think that through all out the History, Europe and later the US, have been crushing the world with colonies and what not.

A reality check, is that you can't look at History (REAL History) within your life time, you can't even look at it from the books in your country, and from opinions that are born with the same circumstances than yours.

You have to learn YOUR History, the correct one, and THEIRS.

You don't restrain from saying "THIS IS WHY THEY HATE US! Because we attack their cities and their people". I ask you... Do you know the extent of the Persian Empire? Do you know how many wars, and for how many time, such empires lived and fought? I say the Persian Empire, because it's a obvious comparison to Iran's current situation in the world.

But lets pick another example...China, that you mentioned. China now is growing stronger, but was week for many, many years. Yet, everyone that looks at China as poor, underdeveloped, and well...stupid...fail to realize that you are actually talking about the country that once built a freaking wall around the whole empire. A structure that still lives today, and should remind people like you that the world is a balance of powers that never stops to find a perfect balance within humanity. Look at the Chinese wall, and then imagine that the Chinese empire was even bigger than the area of the wall, in their prime time.

Concluding, we have Asia with huge empires, ages ago. We have the Middle East with huge empires, ages ago. We have Europe with huge empires, ages ago. Now, we have America with a huge empire, and like every other civilization before you, America does their share of mistakes, even humanitarian.

...so, where does that feeling of guilty comes from? Why are people so anxious to judge, criticize and put down their own home, when it's just a proof of the Human way of evolving, with up's and down's and twist's?

That part, is settled and refuted. In order for you logic to make sense, you would need to ignore all past History of the world, and not only remembering the past 500 years (which, you did).

And not only the past, but also the future. What about Africa? Do you have any doubts that in 500, 1000 years, they will possibly be an empire, or at least a super-power? Sure, they have just stepped out of dark times. But given time, any nation/continent can build enough momentum to go into power. There is nothing morally wrong about it.

But, let's leave philosophy and question more actual stuff.

You put videos of US soldiers in confrontation, with common activities during a war, and you label it "They care about THIS! They hate us because of THIS!".

May I ask you, where did you made such a logical step, from ignoring all US realities, and just going to the conclusion that they hate your soldiers, and your military power?

Because, to me, they don't hate the US military. They hate the US (again, the ones that do. Not all of them hate the US).

They hate people like YOU.

YOU voted in an election that selected the people who made these wars happen. YOUR vote led to actions being taken that produced this results.

YOU contribute DAILY for the system that makes such wars happen. YOU demand a life style that is also kept with this kind of things. YOU and ALL OTHERS with a guilt complex over this whole issue, project their self-guilt into soldiers.

And I'm not saying that your intentions are bad, or wrong. I'm not even saying that I don't agree with your overall message. I do agree with it, I do know for a fact that this wars are a bucket full of crap.

BUT the people that you are showing here in public, and pointing fingers at, judging them and putting them responsible for all the bad things the US does... I'm sorry, but it's idiotic and utterly wrong. For the bad, and for the worst, they are YOUR soldiers, YOUR friends, YOUR sons, YOUR fathers and mothers.

If you want to point in a direction, where people could understand why there is so much rage towards the US from the Middle East, show videos of your elections, of President Bush (father and son), of President Clinton. Show videos of Obama claiming that he was going to carry on with the war in Afghanistan, although removing troops from Iraq. Show them videos of average americans and their opinions and knowledge about the people that you so quickly victimize.

Show the real picture, and not the idiotic and ignorant notion that the military are actually the commanders of the US, and the ones responsible for making such decisions. The military branch is a tool of YOUR system, a system in which you belong. They are not your governors.

The whole Kuran thingy, is just another drop in a glass of water that is already full on their side. Western actions have not been right, crimes were committed, people are suffering.

But the way you try to portray that, making the military as a Jesus of all US sins, is wrong.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Come on.. Why didnt you make the thread "Propaganda for dummies" Muzzle I normally respect your opinion and thoughts.. I have lost a lot of respect for you!!! You are better than this...

So they don't care about the Koran?
Muslims angry about Fla. Quran burning

JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) - Thousands of Indonesian Muslims are rallying outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta to denounce a Florida church's plan to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11.

Afghans protest Quran burning plan, torch US flag

KABUL, Afghanistan – Hundreds of angry Afghans burned a U.S. flag and chanted "Death to the Christians" on Thursday to protest plans by a small American church to torch copies of the Muslim holy book on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

Minister’s Planned Quran Burning Draws Islamic Hysteria, Scorn, & Death Threats… He Cancels Book Burning, Will Meet with Imam

Violent Muslim protesters in Pakistan, angry about planned burning of Qurans in Florida... where is the religion of 'peace and tolerance'?

Thousands protest Koran burning plan in Afghan north

(Reuters) - Thousands of Afghans protested against the United States in the northeast on Friday, the largest demonstration since a small U.S. church said it planned to burn copies of the Koran, an Afghan official said.

Need I go on?
I know you are trying to keep the focus on the war crimes in the middle east... But was this the right way?
Of course they are pissed about the Koran burning... And of course innocent people are dying..

As, standard operating procedure, do you believe that the US military (As a whole) targets civilians? Do you believe that the insurgents (freedom fighters) hide within the civilian population?

You and I both know that we do not intentionally target civilians. We also know that they have used "blending in" as a tactic. I dont mean to repeat myself, but, wow Muzzle?.. I expect this from newer members... I never expected this from you...wow

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by rakkasansct
Before you can call an airstrike you have to be getting attacked from that house/building/position. So lets see: they attack us, we attack back, call for bigger guns. Are we both murders then? Or is the evil empire soldiers of America still in the wrong?

This is totally ignoring the fact it's THIER HOMELAND that WE invaded!

We shot first!

They only attacked you because we are killing their families in THEIR nation!

If the Chinese invade America, I swear to god I will be planting IEDs and taking sniper shots at them.

What would you do ? Bow down and say "Welcome China our new master??"

Come on man! Do you even realize what you are saying??

And

So since we are making some muslims hate us with our missile strikes. What made some muslims hate us before 9/11, the 90s, the 70s, the 50s?

That is probably due to the hundreds of years of European Imperialist occupation of these regions.

History is your friend. Study it.
The Middle East has been occupied by nations like France, UK, for a very very long time.

It goes all the way back to Alexander the Great and the Greeks, whom invaded and occupied the Middle East.
Then the Romans occupied it.
And then it was the Catholic Church and the Crusades.
And then it became the British and French colonialism.
And now it's the NATO military interventionism.

No wonder they hate us. We, the "West", have been invading their lands and murdering them for thousands of years.

They haven't barely had a few years of "breathing room" over the course of millennium.

THAT is why they hated us before 9-11. This is a pattern of aggression and barbaric invasion. True facts.

History is our friend.

And this isn't propaganda per se. I don't work for anyone. I am merely sharing the TRUTH about history.

You are welcome.

edit on 13-9-2010 by muzzleflash because: Bolding and underlining.

And the muslims have never spread their religion on the tip of a sword? The moors perhaps? They were cool dudes? Perfectly content to stay in their countrry? Not interested in the least in conquest? It's just Christians and Jews that have been the warmongers since the Big #ucking Bang?

Israel and America could be wiped from the face of the earth and these 7th century throwbacks would still be out burning cars, breaking windows and and rioting anytime some walked by and cast a shadow over this 'book'.

Quite frankly I am tired of them. I am tired of looking at them. I am tired of hearing about their little book.

If the people of the world are segregated we are easier to control. religion against religion ,nation against nation ? divided we fall ? we are a wolrd of many faiths and religions ,our diversity should be a strength not something that is used against us .

reply to post by edtheduck


IMHO.... Religion is like a mental retardation that still infects to many humans... There will always be the severly weak minded folks that will need to cling to some support system... A.K.A = Religion

The only way this planet will come together as 1....
a) Alien Invasion
b) ww3 that devastates 75 to 80 percent of the planet.

Take away religion, we dont have any differences worth fighting over. It is rediculous how long this has gone on. I for one, and hoping for WW3 to happen sooner than later. I am sick to death of hearing about muslims, jews and christians. They will never agree, they obviously can not get past the differences of religion.

Its rather pathetic... Hundreds of years from now, we will look back at modern religion just like we look at ancient religions....

I say we pull all of our troops out of EVERY country... Take all of the military and put them to work fixing our infastructure.... Then fortify the USA... Leave the rest of the planet to fight its own battles.

Build a inpenatrable fence over the borders... You apply at the gates.. We will contact you if you are accepted..

Pull out of South Korea... within 2 years it would be the Korean desert
Leave Israel to fight its own mess..... Israel would be destroyed...but millions of Dirt squirls would lie dead around it.

Russia would take over Europe..... But who cares.. I sure as hell dont..

I am sick of our boys fighting to protect others... and being condemed for it... All of you anti-USA folks can say all you want.. But, our boys mean well.. and there are still good people here in the USA..

I dont care about you or your country.. I have heard enough of the Anti-USA stuff.. Most of you think this will fix its self..With out the Big Bad USA fending off the wolves... wow the planet would be in trouble..

The sad part is.. I can never prove this.. Between Korea/China/Tiawan/Israel/Iran... We will always have to "stick up" for someone. Its pathetic..

I might be wrong.. you might not need us.. Again .. Its only my opinion.. I dont care if you live in bliss the rest of your days.. I just want to quit sending 1$ to anyone .. Take all of our Aide and keep it.

To Israel/Zionists- You are dilusional stinky nasty racist scum... You bring on your own problems... Your belief that you are "gods" choosen people... Is to say the least, PATHETIC and dilusional. There is no god... Your wasting your one shot at life.. Living for a cause that does not exist.

Leave the world to its own devices!!! Can you imagine how quick our country would be in the green if we stopped sending Aide to other countries? It would be staggering..

Lets start by irradicating all religions... This would solve 50% of the worlds problems INSTANTLY!!!

America and it's troops kills women and babies in the name of Jesus! Because Jesus said so because some preacher said Jesus said so so i believe him and that is final! Nothing says turn the other cheek and love thy neighbor like shrapnel cluster bombs & missing limbs like democracy,Lets not talk just let the bullets do the talking and ask questions later because that is the American way brother.



Obama is a Arab

Sarah Palin is a genius and...


never mind i just went full retard just to see what it feels like

wow... now i know where all the crack babies went, these people who think this way exist

they have no concept what it is to exist on the not so green side of the grass or sand. Actually ...

America has been bamboozled and taken for a ride

may our GOD have mercy upon us

S&F for the OP

reply to post by Sestias


Thats exactly it. That is the stem of the muslims hatred towards the west, I know coz i have experienced those feelings, as I am muslim myself, it hurts me to see that happening to my fellow muslims, christians, jews and any and every other religion thats being affected.

True but I am just trying to be realistic ,religion is here to stay in one form or another ,presides I don't think religions are to blame per say .I think its peoples interpretation of them ,I mean basically most religions at their core share similar values ,it is only people looking to per sue their own agenda /political or otherwise that manipulate the more gullible with a sense of dread about what will happen if they don't listen to them and follow them . You know the kind of “ if you don't listen to me god will be angry at you and when you die you will go to hell ,I am your key to heaven follow me !!!” religion is a personal thing ,people need to listen to their own hearts not some Preacher or some Imam ,they are human too and just as fallible as the rest of us .So don’t always listen to the messenger, but don’t deny the source .

reply to post by RizeorDie
Hello RizeorDie,

I'm a new member here on ats and joined to add a little balance in the right direction. I feel you see through a lot of stuff and keep on posting, you are needed. Brainwashing and news Hogwash is part of the world's prob. I prefer to see people to make comments without insults and too many are an attack on someones comments.

We must have the truth and have it on every point.

Truthiron